Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

[Skyline]

John 6, In jesus own words, It is the work of God we believe in the one he sent, No, Faith is not. Work. Because you did not do the work that enabled you to trust God.

How is asking for forgiveness a meritorious work!? Does forgiveness have to be given? No, but by grace it is, through faith.
Did the prodigal son earn, merit, or deserve the reception of the father based on him humbly returning? No. The fathers response was all of grace.

I disagree with those saying faith is a gift too. That is stated with a supposition saying we are not libertarian free beings (a Calvinist viewpoint); I disagree with that supposition.

 

[notuptome]

Faith is a gift. God would have to take back the faith He gave you when you confessed with your mouth and believed in heart and were born again.

I’m sure you would agree that God isn’t going to revoke the gift He gave you.

Indeed God did not pay so great a price for our redemption that He will allow us to give it back and be condemned. We are bought with a great price and are precious in the sight of God.

It is not us but Christ. Christ has over come the evil one and we are more than victors in Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How is asking for forgiveness a meritorious work!? Does forgiveness have to be given? No, but by grace it is, through faith.
Did the prodigal son earn, merit, or deserve the reception of the father based on him humbly returning? No. The fathers response was all of grace.

I disagree with those saying faith is a gift too. That is stated with a supposition saying we are not libertarian free beings (a Calvinist viewpoint); I disagree with that supposition.

How did you come to ask forgiveness. Was it your work that brought you to your knees like the tax collector. Or was it the work of God?

Thats why faith is not a work. its Gods work IN us that brings us to faith. Some believe, some do not, but it is all Gods work.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Indeed God did not pay so great a price for our redemption that He will allow us to give it back and be condemned. We are bought with a great price and are precious in the sight of God.

It is not us but Christ. Christ has over come the evil one and we are more than victors in Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I still want to know what could cuase us to want to give it back, What is so terrible about God we would lose faith in him and instead desire to spend eternity apart from him/

 

[notuptome]

I still want to know what could cuase us to want to give it back, What is so terrible about God we would lose faith in him and instead desire to spend eternity apart from him/

Love of sin over love of righteousness. Only way that happens is that one never forsook their sin and received Christ.

They want to be saved but cannot leave their sin counting the cost to be too great. Sad really.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Ahwatukee]

John 6, In jesus own words, It is the work of God we believe in the one he sent, No, Faith is not. Work. Because you did not do the work that enabled you to trust God.




So God is not honest,? He offers to give something he calls eternal life, you could not earn, And then takes it back if you do not earn it? (Making it conditional life not eternal)

He was stating a spiritual truth, how can we expect God to forgive us if we can not forgive others. If we have a problem with forgiveness, we need to look deep inside.

God does not offer us eternal life, then make it conditional.

I did not know you were a worker.. this saddens me.

]John 6, In jesus own words, It is the work of God we believe in the one he sent, No, Faith is not. Work. Because you did not do the work that enabled you to trust God.


So God is not honest,? He offers to give something he calls eternal life, you could not earn, And then takes it back if you do not earn it? (Making it conditional life not eternal)

He was stating a spiritual truth, how can we expect God to forgive us if we can not forgive others. If we have a problem with forgiveness, we need to look deep inside.

God does not offer us eternal life, then make it conditional.

I did not know you were a worker.. this saddens me.

I'm not claiming anything that scripture is not, i.e. we are saved by grace through faith and this not of our own selves. It is the gift of God and not by works. I would refer you again to James 5:19-20.

 

[UnderGrace]

How is asking for forgiveness a meritorious work!? Does forgiveness have to be given? No, but by grace it is, through faith.
Did the prodigal son earn, merit, or deserve the reception of the father based on him humbly returning? No. The fathers response was all of grace.

I disagree with those saying faith is a gift too. That is stated with a supposition saying we are not libertarian free beings (a Calvinist viewpoint); I disagree with that supposition.

Amen, faith is not the gift when it comes to be saved.....it is salvation that is the gift.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm not claiming anything that scripture is not, i.e. we are saved by grace through faith and this not of our own selves. It is the gift of God and not by works. I would refer you again to James 5:19-20.

Amen

And since it is a gift, It can not be returned, or earned. Or lost. God knows where it is at all times.

 

[UnderGrace]

I still want to know what could cuase us to want to give it back, What is so terrible about God we would lose faith in him and instead desire to spend eternity apart from him/

Agree, people who state we can give it back have the wrong premise....we cannot give it back.

 

[garee]

I believe the Bible is clear enough on this issue.

"If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us" 2 Timothy 2:12 KJV

What part of this Verse do you not understand? I myself am 100 %ly sure that salvation loss is possible.

it would seem the part you cut off the teaching . . . a little early.

Good thing its impossible for him who performed the three day labor denying himself and gave us his grace as our eternal reward. He would never deny he has not begun the good work in us.

As many as the father gave to Christ they will come. not one more or one less. Many lively stones make up the spiritual house of God .

2 Timothy 2:11-13 King James Version (KJV) It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

If he could deny himself how could we seek his approval as the subject matter of the chapter. when we are in unbelief. For repents first to comfort his self and then turns us so that we can in turn repent and receive the comfort of fellowship ?

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Good example with Peter the forgiven serial denier . 7 times 70 = forgiven

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. Mathew 16: 22-23

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amen, faith is not the gift when it comes to be saved.....it is salvation that is the gift.

Yet faith is also a gift in part, Apart from the cross. We could not have faith to begin with.

 

[garee]

Do you consider having faith as a work? Surely you must believe that faith is necessary for salvation? And not just a one time confession, but a way of life. Jesus shed His blood, however in order to receive the promise of salvation and eternal life, it requires having faith in Him. As His word says "Whoever has the Son has life. But whoever does not have the Son does not have life." In other words, it is not a blanket salvation where everyone is just saved whether they believe or not. It requires faith to receive the promises.

I consider Christ's three day labor of love a work of His faithfulness in regard to its reward of grace to us .We are not to have it is respect to our own selves in false pride.

 

[PennEd]

Amen, faith is not the gift when it comes to be saved.....it is salvation that is the gift.

The text SPECIFICALLY says the faith is a gift. To say the Grace is a gift, although obviously it is, would be highly redundant. And, did I mention, the text SPECIFICALLY says the faith is a gift!

 

[Poinsetta]

I consider Christ's three day labor of love a work of His faithfulness in regard to its reward of grace to us .We are not to have it is respect to our own selves in false pride.

Also Salvation is not mandatory it is a gift of grace. If you go to hell its because you missed out.

 

[UnderGrace]

Yet faith is also a gift in part, Apart from the cross. We could not have faith to begin with.

Yes scripture states God gives us faith to use our gifts.

Don’t think of yourself more highly than you ought to think but think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith which God has assigned to him. Romans 12:3​

A measure of faith is given to exercise our gifts from God.

Paul also speaks this in Corinthians I believe.

 

[UnderGrace]

The text SPECIFICALLY says the faith is a gift. To say the Grace is a gift, although obviously it is, would be highly redundant. And, did I mention, the text SPECIFICALLY says the faith is a gift!

Many a Greek scholar (and my nephew is one) would argue this with you....but I will not go there....we have been here before.

God draws all people to Himself and some are persuaded and some are not.

 

[UnderGrace]

The text SPECIFICALLY says the faith is a gift. To say the Grace is a gift, although obviously it is, would be highly redundant. And, did I mention, the text SPECIFICALLY says the faith is a gift!

Saved by grace means He loves us, it is unmerited by anything we can or will do, we cannot earn it.

 

[PennEd]

Many a Greek scholar (and my nephew is one) would argue this with you....but I will not go there....we have been here before.

God draws all people to Himself and some are persuaded and some are not.

Oh yeah! Well my wife’s Aunt served Baklava and Greek salad for years! My Greek scholars will meet yours in the back alley of the Parthenon any night you say, and we’ll settle this once and for all!!

 

[UnderGrace]

Oh yeah! Well my wife’s Aunt served Baklava and Greek salad for years! My Greek scholars will meet yours in the back alley of the Parthenon any night you say, and we’ll settle this once and for all!!

Mr Penn Ed....they have been arguing this for a long time...... you may find it interesting that Calvin on one occasion in his writing did not view salvific faith as a gift....I think ideas have become mangled over time.

"In short, no man is truly a believer, unless he be firmly persuaded, that God is a propitious and benevolent Father to him... unless he depend on the promises of the Divine benevolence to him, and feel an undoubted expectation of salvation" (Institutes III.II.16)

 

[UnderGrace]

Oh yeah! Well my wife’s Aunt served Baklava and Greek salad for years! My Greek scholars will meet yours in the back alley of the Parthenon any night you say, and we’ll settle this once and for all!!

Too funny ....Greece is an amazing place!!