Can people be a Christian and a Karaite Jew simultaneously?

It seems to me that when gentiles get so caught up in the fact that God is so holy that we can never work so well we can attain that so God forgives based on our faith that they toss out the beautiful, holy, divine law.

No, salvation is by grace through faith. I repeat, anyone who is trusting in their own works to obtain salvation, is not trusting in Christ who accomplished the law on our behalf. The scriptures is as follows:

"God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. 9Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it." (Eph.2:8-9)

The word of God states that the man who puts himself/herself under the law is obligated to keep the whole law, which no one can do and which was accomplished by Christ. And that when you break it in one place, you've broken the whole law. We are saved by trusting solely in the Lord as the One who provided salvation for us. Whenever we bring in our works as a requirement for salvation, it is like saying that the Lord's sacrifice was insufficient.

Jesus came to fulfill the law, satisfying it completely. He did not meet the righteous requirements of the law to perpetuate it, i.e. keep it going.

"For Christ has already accomplished the purpose for which the law was given. As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God."

We preach Christ crucified, not the keeping of the law.

"Haven't you ever read that "The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. For sin is the sting that results in death, and the law gives sin its power."

So you repeat that we should not listen to Christ when Christ tells us to obey him because listening to Christ's directions won't save us! I don't think this is a profitable idea or that it comes from the Lord.

It seems to me that when gentiles get so caught up in the fact that God is so holy that we can never work so well we can attain that so God forgives based on our faith that they toss out the beautiful, holy, divine law.

I think there are postings here by a Jew that says it is possible to accept salvation through grace and also work at obeying God's laws.

Karaite Jews believe that rabbis were not given the right to add to scripture so they do not believe in the Midrash or Talmud. They do believe all of the OT. It seems to me that Christ and Paul were Karaite Jews.

Do you think these Jews can keep all their Jewishness and also be a Christian?

Do the Karaite Jews believe Jesus is the Messiah - the Son of God?

If not - then, no.

So you repeat that we should not listen to Christ when Christ tells us to obey him because listening to Christ's directions won't save us! I don't think this is a profitable idea or that it comes from the Lord.

I have no idea what you are talking about with your post above. I never said that we should not listen to Christ when He tells us to obey Him. We are simply not under the law, period! We are under a different covenant of trusting in Christ as the One who paid the penalty for our sins by the shedding of His blood. We follow Christ and are being led by the Spirit. Here is another example of those who will be trusting in the their own works as follows:

"Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’

After they find out that they are not going to be able to inter into the kingdom of heaven, their first three words reveal why they will not be entering in, which is "did we not," which would be demonstrating that they will have been trusting in their own efforts. The correct response should be "Lord, Lord, did we not have faith in your blood that was shed for us?" Then Jesus says to them "I never knew you" and that because they will have been trusting in their own efforts and are therefore still in their sins.

We can't be saved by keeping the Sabbath on any specific day, or by abstaining from certain foods, or by attempting to keep the ten commandments as a requirement for salvation, or any other work.

Because Jesus fulfilled the law, He took the powers of darkness' hold over those who believe in Him. He took their ammunition away, which was the law and that because we couldn't keep it and we still can't keep it. If we could be saved by obeying the law, then Jesus would have shed His blood for nothing.

Therefore, don't confuse keeping the law. with Jesus' commands, which are the following:

"Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?”
Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”

"And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us."

Now, did you see a great big list of 600 plus laws to adhere to in that list?

"Jews demand signs and Greeks search for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

And obviously, Jesus is a stumbling block to many so-called Christians who want to put themselves under the law as well.

Peter described this issue:

"But some believers from the party of the Pharisees stood up and declared, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses.” (keeping the law)

And Peter's response:

"Brothers, you know that in the early days, God made a choice among you that the Gentiles (Cornelius household) would hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. And God, who knows the heart, showed His approval by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as He did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for He cleansed their hearts by faith.

Now then, why do you test God by placing on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe it is through the grace of the Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

If a doctor prescribed a medicine for one ailment, would you tell him you will not accept it because it does not help with another ailment?

We are told by the Lord to obey the law. There is an entire long psalm (119th) telling us of the wonders of the law, but those wonders do not include salvation. Do you think it is right to put down the law that does all these wonderful things because you want it to save you?

You argue that God called the law a yoke, and you have included physical circumcision in that yoke. The law that was a yoke was man made by the rabbis, God frees God does not enslave. Sin enslaves. If you don't believe me talk to a drug addict. Karaite Jews do not believe in the man made laws.

God helped man with spiritual circumcision by giving him fleshly circumcision to help him understand. Then God gave us the Holy Spirit, and told us to be circumcised in the spirit.

You are a child of God. God tells you to obey Him. A child who is a brat would do all you are doing to oppose that obedience, arguing the parent against it.

If you won't read the 119th psalm, read Romans 12.

I actually have never heard of Karaoke Jews. I agree with your estimation about it being necessary to believe that Jesus is the Messiah and the Son of God to be considered a Christian.

If a doctor prescribed a medicine for one ailment, would you tell him you will not accept it because it does not help with another ailment?

Below are some scriptures regarding salvation by grace through faith vs. the law. Please read them.

Acts 13:38-39
Therefore, my brothers, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the Law of Moses.

Acts 15:5-11
Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the Law of Moses.”
The apostles and elders met to consider this question. After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith, Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

Romans 3:19-24
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Romans 3:27-28
Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.

Romans 4:4-5
Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

Romans 4:13-15
It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
Ergo (The best way to not break the law is to have no law to break.)

Romans 7:1-6
Do you not know, brothers -- for I am speaking to men who know the law -- that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives? For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man. So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Romans 9:30-32
What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith, but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the “stumbling stone.”

Romans 10:4
Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Romans 14:5-6
One man considers one day more sacred than another; and another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He, who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians 2:15-16
We who are Jews by birth and not ‘Gentile sinners’ know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.

Galatians 2:19-21
For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing.


Galatians 3:1-4
You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?

Galatians 3:10
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written” “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.”

Galatians 3:13-14
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree. He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Galatians 3:15-19
Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say “and to his seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ.
What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise. What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.

Galatians 3:23-25
Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

Galatians 5:1-4
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery (law). Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Ephesians 2:14-15
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations.

Colossians 2:13-17
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. (Food law, Feasts and holy days)

Hebrews 7:18-19
The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

II Corinthians 3:6
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant -- not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

2 Timothy 1:9
He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace.

Titus 3:4
But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy.

This is a very unrealistic thought! Jesus Christ, Yeshua, is the King of all who worship Yahweh, kGod, and at best He could be said to be of the faith of Abraham, but He belongs to no sect……..Jews as an umbrella term for the various sects starting with the Pharisess and the Sadducees are nothing more than sects, not truly of the faith of Abraham, and frankly not truly descended of his faith. To lump Jesus into any of the sects is like saying He was a Catholic or a Baptist etc.

Paul, after his conversion considered himself aJew, even a Pharisee. Acts says many priests became obedient to the faith. James mentioned many of the believers were zealous for the law. Paul went into the temple to pay for temple rituals fir men who had a vow on them. He might have been giving a Nazarite vow offerring sincescripture says he shaved gis head in Cenchrea, for he had made a vow. He may have removed the undedicated hair so he would not be encombered with that when he offerred his hair. I wonder if Egyptians were hairless. A Roman officer mistook him for an Egyptian.

Jesus is also Jewish. Why would He say, "...salvation is of the Jews."

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Rest from what?

Galatians 3:24-25
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


Paul tells us what the Lord has given us rest from when we come to Him. The Lord tells us too but not in the same direct language. But probably direct enough to where everybody understood what He was saying at the time He said it.

You keep saying that God wants us o rest from the law. God created our world to work best in a certain way and that way is explained in scripture. When we flow with it that is like going with the current in a river. You keep saying that current is wrong, go against it to be with God.

I agree that living in the boundaries of the kingdom of God is not how far we can walk on the Sabbath or in the specific words we use in prayer, but living in the kingdom does require learning the rules of that kingdom and living within them.

Yes. God wants you to rest from your work and understanding of the law.

Because your work and your understanding doesn't come anywhere close to being what is required.

Only someone who is supremely arrogant or supremely ignorant would think they could follow Gods Commands to Gods Specifications.

Only someone who is supremely arrogant or supremely ignorant would think they could transform or walk better than God could cause them to.

Its much better to come to Christ and receive rest from your own work and understanding of the law and receive the gift of Christs' Work.


If God has a standard He wants you to attain you are hopelessly lost without His Help and His Gift.

He doesn't give you His Help and His Gift so that you can just turn away from Him and go back to your work at the law. He gives His Gift so that you will know where your Blessing is Located and you will NOT turn away from Him and go back to your own way. Even if you have fooled yourself into thinking that your way and His Way are the same way.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

This is not un-righteous instruction. This is righteous instruction. This is good instruction. Unfortunately, it condemns us because we cannot attain it.

The only way out of this condemnation is to come to Christ and Trust His Work. There is no boasting in this. We are all weak. We are all without understanding.

I never wanted this to be the Way. I wanted to be Strong. I wanted to be Wise. I wanted to be Great in His Kingdom. I definitely wanted to be better than YOU... lol

But I'm not. I need Christ just as much as anyone else. And I really don't understand why Christians don't understand that the Key to Christianity is Christ. Its not the law...

I believe you have me on Ignore, so this is for the sake of other readers.

God tells us clearly through Paul and James that the law (as given through Moses) is a unit, not a buffet of options. You either abide by the entire law (including the sacrifices!) or you are under a curse. There is no middle ground. What is called Judaism today is not the same as Judaism of two thousand years ago, because the blood sacrifices were the core of it.

Jesus Christ's death and resurrection freed the believing Jews from the law. It didn't free them only from the sacrificial system as many think. The Jews are either under the law (and therefore under condemnation for their failure to keep it) or they are not under it by reason of faith in Jesus Christ.

Christians don't ask Jews to give up their Jewishness; rather, Jesus tells them that, in Him, they can be free from it. There is a massive difference.

Do you really think it takes arrogance to listen to your God as God directs you? If you were teaching your child, as God is teaching us, and that child tells you no, I can't do all this perfectly so I am not arrogant enough to obey you, what would you say to that child?

i disagree
By grace we are free from the penalty of the law, we are justified by grace. But there are different laws, different laws were given to Gods people and some were fulfilled by Christ others were not. Some still apply and are for our good to obey and others are useless to obey. It is a good thing to not murder, and a good thing to obey my parents, but it is useless to be circumcised or to kill a lamb for my sins because Jesus is my blood offering and i am told circumcision is of the heart. Some laws are no longer applying but not all laws are to be given up.

the law points out sin and sin condemns us. Sin is the issue not the law. By faith in Jesus we are saved from sin not the law.
If Jesus takes away the law so we can sin without condemnation, how does that help the sin issue, (Sin continues and the pain of sin continues but we have no guilt.)

by studying the OT and all the laws you learn so much about the New testament and the what Jesus is doing today. You also learn which laws are fulfilled by Christ or useless to physically keep today.

Please show me even a single verse that explains which components of the law are still in effect and which aren't... or anything to that effect.


This is the legalist's classic false dichotomy: you seem to think that my claim is that if we are not under the law, then we are free to do whatever occurs to us, and it will be okay. Frankly, that's c**p, and it's so far from what I said that I wonder where you get it.


Are you claiming that whatever was not specifically fulfilled is still in force? Consider that carefully before responding.