OSAS= House Built on Sand

Good works are the fruit, by-product and demonstrative evidence of saving faith in Christ, but not the essence of faith and not the means of our salvation.

Faith in Christ is the root of salvation and good works are the fruit. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root.

...the phrase "he who endures to the end shall be saved" is only used in the Bible when it's referring to the time of great tribulation (just prior to Christ's return). As such, I believe it will be one of the principle signs of a true believer in that day and age (far more than it is today in most cases). True believers ARE the ones who endure to the end, because God, by the power of His sanctifying grace, has promised to see that we do .. cf John 6:37-40; Philippians 1:6; 2:13, Hebrews 7:25..

Enduring until we die is for every one of God's people- tribulation time or not. We need to be faithful until death. Just because the bible says something to one person does not mean it's not for everyone.

If you got into a rescue boat, you were saved, but you are not completely saved until you're back on dry ground. If you jump out of the boat in shark infested waters before reaching shore, you are no longer saved. To say that no one would do that is untrue. There are people who leave the safety of being in Christ, and it is not impossible to come out of Christ once in Christ.

...and yet another fib by ralph and I've ignored him for months due to this.

Who cares what Calvin says?

I care what Scripture says!

1 John 5:13 New King James Version (NKJV)
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may KNOW that you have eternal life, [a]and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

The whole of Judeo-Christian teaching refutes this statement!

Not true! The concept of salvation by faith is totally absent in the first three gospels where salvation is seen to be the consequence of good works. In the fourth gospel, salvation by faith is inseparably linked to continuous obedience to Christ, and remaining in Him until death. In the writings of Paul, the Doctrine of Justification is taught as it is in the Epistle of James with the distinction that “works of the Law” have no part in our salvation.

I have replied to this post in the thread it references, and I have shown from both the Greek text and the NASB 1995 update that the post grossly distorts the words in the Bible.

Thanks Deuteronomy,

I appreciate that you have taken the time to share your experience and knowledge with me.
I'm trying to understand the exact context of "He who endures to the end shall be saved", you say it refers to believers in the end time just before the return of Christ and I agree, but does it also apply to all o those who are walking after Christ now.

I always understood that verse to mean that the true believers would follow Christ until the end and not fall away.

Also John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and of all that He gives me I will lose none", sounds very much like He's speaking about the elect of God. I'm not sure what your position is on predestination and election, but the Bible seems to indicate that these are biblical doctrines.

I would think it applies to all of those who are walking after Christ now.

I would offer he who endures to the end as one saved has his confidence in Christ and not what he performs of his own endeavor as a work of the flesh . (Phil1:6)

We should remember as a imputed righteousness it is Christ who works in us to both will and perform that which he appoints to us.(Phip.2:12) As new born again creatures, we work out the new faith he has given us and not work for it to gain it.

In Galatian 3:1-3 the Holy Spirit emphasizes again the Philippians 1:6 principle. God who creates us as new creatures does not begin his work without finishing it to the end so that we then can endure. If we are saved by the "hearing of the faith of God". Therefore having begun in the Spirit as it is written, the flesh will not finish it or perfect His work. The Galatian believers were being foolish as if there was no God in their hearts. Twice he asks them are you being foolish to emphasize, twice he offers the two choices .(1) Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or (2) by the hearing of faith?

Lastly again in respect to the two choices spoken of in Galatians 3. I am reminded of Kings 18 as to who we will follow after ? Will we be foolish and follow after the father of lies as Baal walking after the flesh ? Or Jehovah , walking after the Holy Spirit. (1 KIngs18:21?


Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christhil1:6

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.Phil. 2:12

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Galatians:3:1-5

1 Kings 18:21And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the Lord be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.

It is quite obvious you have huge issues with the eternal assurance of the believer...

...this is something you need to bring to God before prayer.

Oh, I used to live in terror of losing my salvation for many years.

If the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation as you teach, then we have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14)

*Also, in Romans 8:30, we read - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them.

I have zero issues with the eternal security of the believer. Only believers, not former believers, have the security of God's eternal salvation.

Yes, ALL of these will occur for the believer, not for the ex-believer who has turned back in unbelief from the salvation he has received through Christ's sacrifice, like the Galatians did. You have to continue to believe all the way to the very end to inherit the promises. You literally can not keep the promised Holy Spirit by which you are called, justified, sanctified, and glorified if you turn away from the sacrifice of Christ in unbelief. That is what Paul told the Galatians.

I am not sure why when we say we are eternally saved this is interpreted as we no longer serving God, I would argue that it is the very assurance of salvation that spurs the believer(s) on to do the works that God would have us do.

When we are assured of our salvation our works come from Him and return to Him ...they come from a place of Liberty not obligation.

I'm starting to think that the ones who take issue with you don't really understand eternal security. It seems that a fear of failing is behind the belief that believers don't have to do anything, which is completely contrary to scripture.

I do believe that believers can become ex-believers; I've seen it happen numerous times, and the bible witnesses as much. Yet I also feel very secure in that knowledge. It drives me towards GOD, not away from him. There is perfect security in GOD through our faith in his faithfulness. There is zero security outside of faith.

Mat 18:6 ὅς δ᾿ ἂν σκανδαλίσῃ ἕνα τῶν μικρῶν τούτων τῶν πιστευόντων εἰς ἐμέ, συμφέρει αὐτῷ ἵνα κρεμασθῇ μύλος ὀνικὸς εἰς τὸν τράχηλον αὐτοῦ καὶ καταποντισθῇ ἐν τῷ πελάγει τῆς θαλάσσης.
Mat 18:6 “Whoever should cause one of these little ones who are continually submissive and faithful to me to sin, it is better for him that a millstone of a donkey be tied around his neck and he be submerged in the depth of the open sea.” (repeated in Mk 9:42)

Joh 1:12 ὅσοι δὲ ἔλαβον αὐτόν, ἔδωκεν αὐτοῖς ἐξουσίαν τέκνα Θεοῦ γενέσθαι, τοῖς πιστεύουσιν εἰς τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ,
Joh 1:12 As many people that received him, he gave to them the privilege to become children of God—to the ones that are continually submissive and obedient to his authority.

Joh 2:11 Ταύτην ἐποίησε ἀρχὴν τῶν σημείων ὁ ᾿Ιησοῦς ἐν Κανὰ τῆς Γαλιλαίας καὶ ἐφανέρωσε τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, καὶ ἐπίστευσαν εἰς αὐτὸν οἱ μαθηταὶ αὐτοῦ.
Joh 2:11 This beginning of miraculous signs Yahshua performed in Cana of Galilee and he manifested his splendor. And his disciples were submissive to him.

Joh 2:23 ῾Ως δὲ ἦν τοῖς ῾Ιεροσολύμοις ἐν τῷ πάσχα ἐν τῇ ἑορτῇ, πολλοὶ ἐπίστευσαν εἰς τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ, θεωροῦντες αὐτοῦ τὰ σημεῖα ἃ ἐποίει.
Joh 2:23 While he was in Jerusalem during the festival of the Passover, many people were submissive to his authority as they were seeing the miracles that he did.

Joh 3:14 καὶ καθὼς Μωϋσῆς ὕψωσε τὸν ὄφιν ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ, οὕτως ὑψωθῆναι δεῖ τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου,
Joh 3:15 ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται, ἀλλ᾿ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
Joh 3:16 οὕτω γὰρ ἡγάπησεν ὁ Θεὸς τὸν κόσμον, ὥστε τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται, ἀλλ᾿ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
Jn 3:14-16 “And in the same way that Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, it is necessary for the Son of Humanity likewise to be lifted up, in order that everyone who is continually faithful and submissive to him should not be destroyed, but instead, possess age-abiding Life. Because God in this manner was lovingly-devoted to the cosmos: to the point that he gave his one-of-a-kind son, in order that every person who is constantly submissive and obedient to him might not be destroyed, but instead possess age-abiding Life.”

Joh 3:18 ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν οὐ κρίνεται, ὁ δὲ μὴ πιστεύων ἤδη κέκριται, ὅτι μὴ πεπίστευκεν εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ μονογενοῦς Υἱοῦ τοῦ Θεοῦ.
Joh 3:18 “The one who is obedient to him is not judged; but the one who is not faithful is already judged, because he has not been submissive to the authority of the unique-in-kind son of God.”

Joh 3:36 ὁ πιστεύων εἰς τὸν Υἱὸν ἔχει ζωὴν αἰώνιον· ὁ δὲ ἀπειθῶν τῷ Υἱῷ οὐκ ὄψεται ζωήν, ἀλλ᾿ ἡ ὀργὴ τοῦ Θεοῦ μένει ἐπ᾿ αὐτόν.
Joh 3:36 The person who is submissively being obedient to the son possesses age-abiding Life; but the person who is being disobedient to the son will not see Life. Instead, the wrath of God is remaining on top of him.

Joh 4:39 ᾿Εκ δὲ τῆς πόλεως ἐκείνης πολλοὶ ἐπίστευσαν εἰς αὐτὸν τῶν Σαμαριτῶν διὰ τὸν λόγον τῆς γυναικὸς, μαρτυρούσης ὅτι εἶπέ μοι πάντα ὅσα ἐποίησα.
Joh 4:39 Many people of the Samaritans from that city became faithful to him on account of the statement of the woman who testified, “He told me everything that I have done!”

Joh 6:29 ἀπεκρίθη ὁ ᾿Ιησοῦς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτοῖς· τοῦτό ἐστι τὸ ἔργον τοῦ Θεοῦ, ἵνα πιστεύσητε εἰς ὃν ἀπέστειλεν ἐκεῖνος.
Joh 6:29 Yahshua answered and told them, “This is the 'work of God': that you should be submissive and faithful to the person that he sent!”

Joh 6:35 εἶπε δὲ αὐτοῖς ὁ ᾿Ιησοῦς· ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ἄρτος τῆς ζωῆς· ὁ ἐρχόμενος πρός ἐμὲ οὐ μὴ πεινάσῃ, καὶ ὁ πιστεύων εἰς ἐμὲ οὐ διψήσει πώποτε.
Joh 6:35 Yahshua told them, “I am Life's Bread. The person constantly approaching me will never be hungry, and the person being consistantly submissive and faithful to me will not ever be thirsty.”

Joh 6:40 τοῦτο δὲ ἐστι τὸ θέλημα τοῦ πέμψαντός με, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ θεωρῶν τὸν υἱὸν καὶ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον, καὶ ἀναστήσω αὐτὸν ἐγὼ τῇ ἐσχάτῃ ἡμέρᾳ.
Joh 6:40 “This is the intention of the one who sent me: in order that everyone who is constantly looking to the son, and being always submissive and faithful to him, may have age-abiding Life. And I will resurrect him in the Last Day.”

(Part II next)

Joh 1:12 ὅσοι δὲ ἔλαβον αὐτόν, ἔδωκεν αὐτοῖς ἐξουσίαν τέκνα Θεοῦ γενέσθαι, τοῖς πιστεύουσιν εἰς τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ,
Joh 1:12 As many people that received him, he gave to them the privilege to become children of God—to the ones that are continually submissive and obedient to his authority.

John 10:27-29
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

So here we have another who does not have faith that Jesus who saves us keeps us saved.
He believes He must help by his own works.
You keep trusting in yourself and you will end up in Hell.