Faith or Law?

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Toknow said:
OK

I would just have helped him get off the ground and maybe call an ambualance or maybe drive him to a hospital.

I hope if I'm laying on the ground hurt...

it's not YOU that shows up.

Maybe someone that would automatically know that God would want the person to help me.
Click to expand...
Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of
Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike.

Acts 8:13
Even Simon himself believed; and after being baptized, he continued on with Philip, and as he
observed signs and great miracles taking place, he was constantly amazed.

Acts 8:37
And Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said,
“I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”

Acts 9:42
It became known all over Joppa, and many believed in the Lord.

Acts 10:43
Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives
forgiveness of sins.

Acts 10:45
All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit
had been poured out on the Gentiles also.

Acts 11:21
And the hand of the Lord was with them, and a large number who believed turned to the Lord.

Acts 13:12
Then the proconsul believed when he saw what had happened, being amazed at the teaching of the Lord.

Acts 13:39
And through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed
through the Law of Moses.

Acts 13:48
When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many
as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

Acts 14:1
In Iconium they entered the synagogue of the Jews together, and spoke in such a manner that a
large number of people believed, both of Jews and of Greeks.

Acts 14:23
When they had appointed elders for them in every church, having prayed with fasting, they commended
them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

Acts 15:5
But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise
them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses.”

Acts 15:7
After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brethren, you know that in the
early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of
the gospel and believe.

Acts 15:11
But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.”

Acts 16:1
Paul came also to Derbe and to Lystra. And a disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a Jewish woman
who was a believer, but his father was a Greek,

Acts 16:31
They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Acts 16:34
And he brought them into his house and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, having believed
in God with his whole household.

Acts 17:12
Therefore many of them believed, along with a number of prominent Greek women and men.

Acts 17:34
But some men joined him and believed, among whom also were Dionysius the Areopagite and a
woman named Damaris and others with them.

1 Corinthians 1:21
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was
pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.
 
Inquisitor said:
We place all the emphasis in the spiritual reading.

Sure it's good to literally feed someone or to care for their needs.

The bottom line is the N.T is about immortality through and in Jesus Christ.
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So the ONLY reason Jesus came to us was for the atonement?
Nothing else?

Not to better mankind?
Not to bring the Kingdom of God here on earth?

Why all the verses?
What do you think BELIEVE means?
 
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Toknow said:
I back up my statements with scripture.
A personal view is a post that goes on forever with no scripture.
Click to expand...
No Scripture? Ah, so quoting Jesus is “no Scripture”.

Okay.

John 5:19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does."

Happy now?
 
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Toknow said:
So the ONLY reason Jesus came to us was for the atonement?
Nothing else?

Not to better mankind?
Not to bring the Kingdom of God here on earth?

Why all the verses?
What do you think BELIEVE means?
Click to expand...

The Koine Greek word 'Pistis' is translated as believe or faith, in something or someone.

Believe or faith means to be convinced of someone or something. If we believe in
the biblical sense of the word, then we are trusting Christ to save us. Not a good life, church
attendance, baptism, taking of the sacraments, or keeping of the commandments.

You said "Why all the verses".

I gave you only the occurrence of 'believe' in John's gospel and part of Acts.

There are 500 verses in the N.T with either 'believe' or 'faith'.

To believe in Jesus is the N.T.

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.
 
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To believe in Jesus results in a heart change. Results in baptism and repentance. A lifestyle change.

It is by allowing Jesus to live in your heart that you are recreated. He is the creator. And salvation is about creating a new heart in us.

Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

Eph 4:21-25
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. 25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

Jesus was our perfect example.
He taught and obeyed all 10 of the commandments.. let us follow, by faith, the example.
 
Inquisitor said:
There are 500 verses in the N.T with either 'believe' or 'faith'.

To believe in Jesus is the N.T.
Click to expand...
Jas 2:14-22
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
 
We need to be careful we are not believing we are saved when we are not.
Complacency = is a dangerous state of self-satisfaction or contentment with one's current situation, achievements, or abilities, often accompanied by an unawareness of potential dangers, risks, or the need for improvement.

Lukewarm Christians
Are people that believe and even go to church and think they are rich in christ but are really poor.

Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

Be careful because these people people don't realize their need..

They believe but don't realize that they need to repent. Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Mat 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

It isn't enough to just believe... if you believe but are holding onto iniquity, it will seperate you from Jesus.
" I never knew you" he will say.

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
 
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Inquisitor said:
The Koine Greek word 'Pistis' is translated as believe or faith, in something or someone.

Believe or faith means to be convinced of someone or something. If we believe in
the biblical sense of the word, then we are trusting Christ to save us. Not a good life, church
attendance, baptism, taking of the sacraments, or keeping of the commandments.

You said "Why all the verses".
Click to expand...

Inquisitor said:
I gave you only the occurrence of 'believe' in John's gospel and part of Acts.

There are 500 verses in the N.T with either 'believe' or 'faith'.

To believe in Jesus is the N.T.

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.
Click to expand...

There's two words for faith in the Greek. Pistis the noun used 245 times in the NT, and pisteuo the corresponding verb used 248 times.
Pistis the noun is defined as a firm conviction.
Pisteuo the corresponding verb is defined as a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

If you don,t understand that the words believe, believer, and believing are mistranslations, please stop talking.
 
TMS said:
Jas 2:14-22
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Click to expand...
Yes TMS, a work will perfect our faith.

One must first believe in Jesus to receive the Holy Spirit and that is God's seal upon us.

After you receive the Holy Spirit you now have the fruit of the Holy Spirit available.

Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness,
self-control; against such things there is no law.

The law is weak and useless and the codified law was only given to Israel.

When you have the Holy Spirit then you can accomplish a righteous work, which perfects your faith.

But we enforce the primary doctrine which is mentioned over 500 times in the N.T.

That faith in Jesus!
 
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TMS said:
To believe in Jesus results in a heart change. Results in baptism and repentance. A lifestyle change.

It is by allowing Jesus to live in your heart that you are recreated. He is the creator. And salvation is about creating a new heart in us.

Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

Eph 4:21-25
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. 25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

Jesus was our perfect example.
He taught and obeyed all 10 of the commandments.. let us follow, by faith, the example.
Click to expand...
Salvation is firstly about not paying the penalty for our own sin.

Jesus also obeyed all (relevant) ordinances among the other 600-odd. By your logic we should follow those as well.

He also walked on water....
 
Watchman22 said:
There's two words for faith in the Greek. Pistis the noun used 245 times in the NT, and pisteuo the corresponding verb used 248 times.
Pistis the noun is defined as a firm conviction.
Pisteuo the corresponding verb is defined as a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

If you don,t understand that the words believe, believer, and believing are mistranslations, please stop talking.
Click to expand...
Quote your source watchman and don't peddle your opinion.

The Greek word for "believe" is πιστεύω, which appears in the New Testament to mean trust, have faith in,
or rely upon. It stems from the root noun pistis (faith) and often implies deep conviction and commitment
rather than just intellectual agreement.
Key Aspects of πιστεύω (Pisteuō):
Definition: To believe, to have faith, to trust, to entrust.

"Faith" in Greek, particularly in the New Testament, is pistis (πίστις). It represents a deep, unwavering trust, confidence, fidelity, and belief, going beyond intellectual assent to include active reliance, faithfulness, and conviction. It implies a personal relationship or allegiance, rather than just a set of beliefs.
Meaning: Derived from the verb peithō (persuade/believe), pistis encompasses faith, trust, belief, assurance, and fidelity.

To have faith and to believe are both the same word in any translation.

You can use either English word in a translation.

Yes, pistis (πίστις) can be translated as both "faith" and "believe" (or belief), as it refers to a broad concept of trust, confidence, assurance, and fidelity. While often translated as "faith" in the New Testament, it also encompasses "belief" and "faithfulness," representing a deep reliance on someone or something. (Google)
 
Inquisitor said:
Quote your source watchman and don't peddle your opinion.

The Greek word for "believe" is πιστεύω, which appears in the New Testament to mean trust, have faith in,
or rely upon. It stems from the root noun pistis (faith) and often implies deep conviction and commitment
rather than just intellectual agreement.
Key Aspects of πιστεύω (Pisteuō):
Definition: To believe, to have faith, to trust, to entrust.

"Faith" in Greek, particularly in the New Testament, is pistis (πίστις). It represents a deep, unwavering trust, confidence, fidelity, and belief, going beyond intellectual assent to include active reliance, faithfulness, and conviction. It implies a personal relationship or allegiance, rather than just a set of beliefs.
Meaning: Derived from the verb peithō (persuade/believe), pistis encompasses faith, trust, belief, assurance, and fidelity.

To have faith and to believe are both the same word in any translation.

You can use either English word in a translation.

Yes, pistis (πίστις) can be translated as both "faith" and "believe" (or belief), as it refers to a broad concept of trust, confidence, assurance, and fidelity. While often translated as "faith" in the New Testament, it also encompasses "belief" and "faithfulness," representing a deep reliance on someone or something. (Google)
Click to expand...

Go to the rediscovering pisteuo thread. It will give you everything you need.
 
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