The Tribulation: Part I - Refinement, Not Removal
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It will be a horrible and terrible day.
A time of dread will cover them like a heavy blanket
You play victim, but you must realize God knows what is in your heart, and will judge you for it, right?
Anyway, God knows who are His and will survive the GT with their faith intact dead or alive.
You're just deceiving the ones who don't belong to Him.
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First ....if you knew me.. I don't like this. Some will say the Church will not go through the GT Gods wrath. Some not all do say God will not punish or beat up His bride first. There is a flip side to that "Maybe the GT is Jesus' training ground for them so that they'll be good leaders who are loyal to Him? Just a guess.". Reading the commits a word came to mind "flippant" with some posts.
Made lol my self smile. Was thinking.. oh how wonderful it would be if we just.. were talking.. He's coming for us! Song.. It wont be long.. we can't just lovingly kindly respect someone else view that is not like ours. We make them feel better.. we encourage them right? Praise GOD He found us.. but I wonder how many know Him. We sure don't sound like Him.. but what do I know
Made lol my self smile. Was thinking.. oh how wonderful it would be if we just.. were talking.. He's coming for us! Song.. It wont be long.. we can't just lovingly kindly respect someone else view that is not like ours. We make them feel better.. we encourage them right? Praise GOD He found us.. but I wonder how many know Him. We sure don't sound like Him.. but what do I know
I don't worry about it anymore. God had pointed out to me that
John 6:39 "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day."
Everyone who belongs to God, whether pre- or post-trib, will endure to the end, dead or alive. with their faith intact.
Everyone else who doesn’t belong to God will be deceived and fall away, not having built up enough moral fortitude to endure and will take the mark.
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Rev 13
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Oooops.
Rev 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
It says the saints are overcome in Rev 13.
It says every person on the planet, not in the book, receives the mark.
It says refusing the mark is martyrdom.
It says all that.
I am just a reporter.
Yeah, so?
Are you afraid?
God's people won't be. They'd rather die than stop following Lord Jesus.
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7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Charm-is every believer going to die in the Tribulation?
The Tribulation: Part III: Vindication, Kingdom, and the Revelation of Glory
Abstract
This study continues the biblical theology of tribulation by examining its final outcome: vindication, judgment, and the full revelation of God’s kingdom. Building upon the prophetic tradition, the teachings of Jesus, the witness of Revelation, and the harmony found in Paul’s endurance language, this section argues that tribulation culminates not merely in survival, but in public vindication and kingdom manifestation. The refining fire prepares a people; the end reveals them.
From Refinement to Revelation
If Part I established that tribulation refines rather than removes, and Part II showed its purifying and separating function, then Part III asks a final question: What does refinement produce?
Scripture answers plainly. It produces a people ready for glory.
Tribulation is not the end of the story. It is the furnace before the unveiling. Just as gold is heated so its beauty may appear, so the faithful endure trial so their loyalty may be revealed openly before heaven and earth.
Jesus: Endurance Before Glory
In Matthew 24, after describing tribulation and deception, Jesus speaks of His visible return:
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days… they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory” (Matthew 24:29–30).
The order is clear. Tribulation comes first. Glory follows.
He then says He will gather His elect (Matthew 24:31). The gathering comes after endurance has been demonstrated.
Jesus also taught this pattern in parable form. In Matthew 13, the wheat and the tares grow together until the harvest. They are not separated early. They mature side by side until the time of reaping. Only then comes the separation and the shining forth of the righteous.
“Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father” (Matthew 13:43).
Refinement leads to radiance.
Daniel: The Wise Shall Shine
Daniel 12, after describing the time of trouble and purification, concludes with promise:
“They that are wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.”
The refined become radiant. The tested become glorious. Tribulation does not end in silence. It ends in shining.
This is vindication. The world that oppressed the faithful will see their glory. The suffering of the righteous will be answered by their elevation.
Revelation: Overcoming and Reigning
The Book of Revelation completes this picture. The saints are repeatedly described as those who overcome.
They overcome the beast.
They overcome persecution.
They overcome by faithfulness.
In Revelation 20:4, those who remained faithful—even unto death—are seen reigning with Christ. The persecuted become participants in the kingdom.
Earlier, in Revelation 3:21, Jesus promises:
“To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne.”
The throne follows overcoming. The crown follows endurance.
The tribulation does not remove the faithful from the world; it reveals who truly belongs to the Lamb. And when the final unveiling comes, those refined by fire stand clothed in white, not because they avoided trial, but because they remained faithful within it.
Paul: Suffering and Revealed Glory
Paul’s language also fits this progression.
In Romans 8:18 he writes:
“For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.”
Notice the phrase “revealed in us.” Glory is not merely given; it is unveiled. Something formed through suffering is later displayed.
A few verses later, he speaks of creation waiting for “the revealing of the sons of God” (Romans 8:19). Creation itself waits for this unveiling. The refined are revealed.
Thus even in Paul, suffering leads forward to revelation, not escape. Present tribulation prepares future glory.
Vindication and the Justice of God
Tribulation also serves a judicial purpose. It exposes evil and demonstrates the righteousness of God’s judgments.
In 2 Thessalonians 1:6–7, Paul speaks of God repaying affliction to those who afflict, and granting rest to the afflicted at the revelation of Jesus from heaven. Rest comes at His revealed appearing, not prior removal.
The oppressed are vindicated publicly. The persecutors are judged openly. Justice is not hidden.
This matches Revelation’s cry under the altar: “How long?” (Revelation 6:10). The answer is not escape, but completion. When the number is full, judgment falls, and vindication comes.
The Pattern Completed
Across Scripture the movement is consistent:
Testing
Endurance
Revelation
Vindication
Kingdom
The faithful pass through fire.
Their faith is proven.
Their loyalty is revealed.
Their enemies are judged.
Their King appears.
Then comes the kingdom in fullness.
Conclusion
Tribulation is not an interruption of God’s plan. It is part of its completion.
It refines the heart. It separates truth from compromise. It prepares a people fit for glory.
When the Son of Man appears, He does not gather an untested people. He gathers those who endured. Those who overcame. Those who remained faithful in the fire.
Thus the theology of tribulation reaches its final truth:
The fire refines. The endurance proves. The revelation vindicates.
And the kingdom belongs to those who overcome.
Bingo.
Nobody to rapture postrib.
Postrib doctrine is so poorly thought out.
We all agree about tribulation, and the endurance necessary.
We all agree it can produce faith and a testimony.
We all know it.
The ESCAPE VERSES POINT DIRECTLY to the great trib.
The 7 year great trib.
Noah BEFORE THE FLOOD GATHERED TO THE ARK
LOT BEFORE THE JUDGEMENT REMOVED.
THE BABY JESUS BEFORE HERODS TRIBULATION REMOVED.
ALL ESCAPED.
ARE THEY AS DEFECTIVE?
IS JESUS IN ERROR?
BTW..ALL RAPTURE VERSES are in the OPPOSITE setting of your postrib rapture model.
Hard to wiggle out of scripture.
You are tribulation centered.
Not bride and groom centered.
You also do not know the purpose of the 7 yr trib.
Yeah, your post pretty much explains why the gathering is post-trib. It shows God's full power living in His faithful, enduring people.
The people the Father sends to His Son, Lord Jesus, even if some believed pre-trib at first, will quickly switch into endurance mode when they see they are in the great tribulation and will stick with Lord Jesus even if it means death, knowing that death no longer has its sting.
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QUOTE
""In Matthew 24, after describing tribulation and deception, Jesus speaks of His visible return:
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days… they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory” (Matthew 24:29–30).
The order is clear. Tribulation comes first. Glory follows.
He then says He will gather His elect (Matthew 24:31). The gathering comes after endurance has been demonstrated.""
Keep reading.
Not only are they gathered from heaven ( psssst...yes they are in heaven), but ANGELS gather, while Jesus is not gathering.
....and yes keep reading as Jesus says his coming BEFORE THE FLOOD ( PSSST PRETRIB) IS compared with Lot and Noah.
So you cave 2 "comings" in mat 24
.....and keep reading a few verses...
Context is your friend.
Almost in the same breath only 30 seconds later Jesus depicts the PRETRIB RAPTURE VIVIDLY in the virgin parable.
3 eschatological dynamics by Jesus in less than one minute.
....and YES one of them is POSTRIB!!!!
THE 2ND Coming on white horses.
Power and great glory.
Rev 19....the saints IN HEAVEN GATHERED TO THE WHITE HORSES. ( MAT 24 " power and great glory")
The trib is 7 years according to Daniel.
It is Jacob's trouble.
If you watch 20 postrib teachers, none of them know that the rapture is the groom coming for the bride.
None of them will say "groom" or "bride".
So obviously that is not their center.
Their center is ALWAYS "TRIBULATION "
Most postribbers are offended at the idea of a pretrib rapture.
That concept causes indignation to them.
So it actually drives their dialogue.