Is the church spiritually dry?
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Lukewarm gospel is one of the biggest reasons why the church is spiritually stunted growth.Lukewarm is when your a baby in Christ but never growing in spirit.
Lukewarm=lukewarm milk.It's very deceptive that people assume that lukewarm means that there's unsound doctrine mixed in with that churches teaching.When in reality that church is either intentionally,or unintentionally keeping you on the milk of the gospel,and not the meat of it.
A baby has no teeth to eat meat.Those people are like a spiritual sacrifice to a babylonian church,and a lot of them will defend it with all their heart.
Satan is a trickster, and appears as a angel of light.These types of churches fill hell with more souls over the more commonly known 'fake' churches.
Revelation 3:15-16
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Lukewarm=lukewarm milk.It's very deceptive that people assume that lukewarm means that there's unsound doctrine mixed in with that churches teaching.When in reality that church is either intentionally,or unintentionally keeping you on the milk of the gospel,and not the meat of it.
A baby has no teeth to eat meat.Those people are like a spiritual sacrifice to a babylonian church,and a lot of them will defend it with all their heart.
Satan is a trickster, and appears as a angel of light.These types of churches fill hell with more souls over the more commonly known 'fake' churches.
Revelation 3:15-16
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
The de facto civil religion among most Christians, especially in North America, is MTD - moralistic therapeutic deism. I think we can all agree that the gospel message is summed up in 1 Cor. 15:3 - " Christ died for our sins, according to the Scripture (Old Testement in this context)." The root problem is the denial of human sin nature, the original sin is replaced with shame, inequality, oppression or other social issues, and that leads to a wrong jesus for salvation, and OT is rarely preached.
If by Church you mean the people who have the Holy Spirit, who make up the universal Church of Christ. NO!
If by church you mean churchianity and people who go to buildings called churches, YES, that has been dead for hundreds of years.
If by church you mean churchianity and people who go to buildings called churches, YES, that has been dead for hundreds of years.
Yeah I figured you would say that so let me rephrase it you can sense whether a church is alive or not using discernment
Have you ever felt God's presence? how did you discern if that was really him or not? did ou not sense his spirit? or did you just assume it was him? how would you know without discernment?
Ok....
First off you are assuming a LOT of things about other people.
You see the surface and what other people allow you to see....not necessarily what is really there...
Most on fire for God people are trying not to scare the "normals" that walk among us believers.
Secondly,
Most of the membership of online forums are NOT regular attendees of any church services and don't have friends that regularly attend church services. They merely claim Chrust as their Savior and possibly engage in theological debate but abjectly draw the line at the 2nd Greatest Commandment given by Jesus and all other associated commandments and directives. They simply do not own anything resembling following it. If following "love thy neighbor " was a crime there is always insufficient evidence to get a conviction. They never pray in a group or significantly give of their resources to anyone.
So....there's that.
Do you actually have concrete proof that what you've said about all the members of this forum is true?
No I am not assuming anything and it isn't as if I just walk into a place and instantly decide whether they are on fire or not I attend the churches regularly to find out for myself and after a month or two you can easily tell if they are or not.
Also you yourself are assuming a lot about the people on the forums while you are partially correct I don't think it is to the degree your thinking
I agree that there are many spiritually dry churches, our seminaries are failing the pastors they graduate. Here the problem goes back a few decades to a time when they admitted too many students for the wrong reasons, and these students became the pastors of too many churches, thus the pattern continued.
But there is another other problem that is even worse. It is still far too easy to find a church with the appearance of being filled with the Holy Spirit when instead the spirit it is full of is anything but holy. I know of several such churches in my general area, and I do the pastors a favor by not setting foot inside those churches unless the pastor specifically invites me, because the pastor will be the one to pay the price if I walk in. Unholy spirits and I do not get along at all well and someone will pay the price if I enter what they consider their territory, not me, but someone who should have stopped me, typically the pastor. Now if I am invited to help cleanse a church, that is a different matter entirely, but such has not happened for several years.
But there is another other problem that is even worse. It is still far too easy to find a church with the appearance of being filled with the Holy Spirit when instead the spirit it is full of is anything but holy. I know of several such churches in my general area, and I do the pastors a favor by not setting foot inside those churches unless the pastor specifically invites me, because the pastor will be the one to pay the price if I walk in. Unholy spirits and I do not get along at all well and someone will pay the price if I enter what they consider their territory, not me, but someone who should have stopped me, typically the pastor. Now if I am invited to help cleanse a church, that is a different matter entirely, but such has not happened for several years.
Woah...Do you actually have concrete proof that what you've said about all the members of this forum is true?
I'm not using the broad brush you are claiming. And I'm not guessing either.
MANY here, that are regulars on this forum, have publicly said that they don't regularly attend services or Small groups. They have their reasons which I personally consider lame but that's not exactly the subject matter at hand.
It's not all. But I'd dare say that the "non attendees" by a large margin, outnumber those that have a church home. (2:1 at a minimum)
It's not anything new....people are deceitful even deceiving themselves. An avatar is used for REASONS and personal security is not the whole of it. I've been a member of several various Christian forums. Been on several site meetups and driven hours to meet others. And the numbers who actually get up on Sunday and show up at church to the point that others actually recognize them and know their name is rather depressing.
But there's always a few who do show....and sometimes it's easier to tell than with others who tend to be cagey about it. Others are outright deceitful about it....and others rather open about their non-attendance. (Mixed bag as always).
I'm kinda surprised that you hadn't noticed at this point.
As such I'll remind you of what you already know. Which is that Jesus said "wise as serpents but gentle as doves".
As far as "dead" or "alive on fire" its usually a matter of leadership for the Church and however that was made to happen.
I've seen supposedly dead churches come to life with new leadership only to become dead again when the good leadership is lured away by another larger church. It's not that people want to be dead and unexcited....but they simply don't have the vision that good leadership can bring.
And as another poster has stated....the pickings for leadership are extremely slim.
When a notice goes out that a church is looking for a pastor....on average over 11,000 resumes with video are launched at the church.
Of those 11,000 maybe a third to a quarter will have the requisite educational background or any sort of experience that would result in serious consideration.
It only goes downhill from there.
A LOT of work (100's of hours) whittling down to find a bakers dozen to really investigate with background checks, visiting their current church, and etc.
Just to then navigate the internal church politics to put forth 3 or 4 truly viable candidates.
And by this time....it's depressing.
True good leader ship is the main issue and it heavily depends on the leadership whether a church stays alive or on fire but the sad reality is that good leadership is not exactly common these days and also being a leader of a church is a very stressful job but this is why not just anyone is fit to be one
Some churches are started specifically because of money as well and the enemy has also creot in the church as well I saw a an actual demon possession happen in a video where the pastor suddenly got pssessed his eyes changes his words and actions changed he struggled just to say the covanent of God he started speaking about bood and darkness it was shocking to see but this also speaks to how just because you have thousands of followers doesn't mean you are an actual leader because this man had thousands of followers but he got posessed midway through his sermon
I asked for CONCRETE PROOF that everone else can assess for themselves, like surveys or questionnaires, their own personal diaries or biographies, etc, not another post of your opinion
By the way, this forum has tens of thousands of forum members. You know ALL of them personally to make your assessment?
Yes, I've discerned God's presence in different congregations, but I didn't base it on how I felt. I mostly look for fruits of the Spirit, which can't be determined by how a group worships. When I was younger I attended a lot of Pentecostal congregations, what a lot of people called "holy rollers." At the time I thought they were really on fire for God, but as it turned out they were just on fire for emotional kicks.
Are there charismatic groups that are on fire for God? I'm sure there are; but I wouldn't assume they are simply by the way they worship. In Revelation 3:1-6, Jesus warned of groups that have a reputation for being alive but are dead; He actually said they need to wake up. I believe this is very relevant still today.
There's a lot of active members that I've read the posts of over the years.I asked for CONCRETE PROOF that everone else can assess for themselves, like surveys or questionnaires, their own personal diaries or biographies, etc, not another post of your opinion
By the way, this forum has tens of thousands of forum members. You know ALL of them personally to make your assessment?
(Can't remember how many years I've been here at this point or at others....)
This one is still typical for many of the forums I've been a part of. It's not exactly exceptional. There's differences of course that make people post a bit differently and thread drift a bit more extreme than others. But when people tell you who they are or that they don't regularly attend any church....I tend to believe them.
As far as the "thousands"....many of them have maybe one or two posts (if that) and they haven't returned in years. I don't consider them active and I doubt they remember they even have a membership here. (You have only been here for three years)
I've been mod and admin for three other sites. There's nothing really outstanding for this group (some have metriculated from some of those sites to here...albeit with new avatar names)
Why on earth you believe to know the opposite of what I'm saying is kinda odd to me. Have I insulted you in some way? Or are you feeling guilty about not regularly attending services yourself?
Dunno.....if I insult someone I usually remember.
Carry on....believe what you wish. But this is the internet....not everyone is exactly transparent about themselves.
Ok....let's turn the tables. Give me CONCRETE PROOF they all do attend services of some sort.
The fact you've written so many paragraphs to defend your bad attitude and view about forum members is just sad.
What an unpleasant look into your heart and mind. I'm out.
God also recently brought this to my mind and heart about your bad attitude:
Philippians 2:3 :
"Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves."
This is why I felt unsettled about you're bad attitude toward forum members in general. You should take heed to what this verse says.What we are seeing spiritually is what is known as generational decline with the Falling Away of the church together.
Me-ism in worship is on the rise, with people singing more about who they are instead of giving praise & glory to Jesus.
There is much excitement in the church, but what good is that? "Getting your praise on" does not equal holiness, without which no man will see the Lord.
P&W rises while prayer declines, all the while the truth is replaced with fables.
When lies is preached/taught, what should we expect to happen? When true doctrine is shallow at best, what do we expect the congregation to be?
1Peter 4:17For it is time for judgment to begin [m]with the household of God; and if it begins [n]with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18AND IF IT IS WITH DIFFICULTY THAT THE RIGHTEOUS IS SAVED, [o]WHAT WILL BECOME OF THE GODLESS MAN AND THE SINNER?
19Therefore, those also who suffer according to the will of God are to entrust their souls to a faithful Creator in doing what is right.
Me-ism in worship is on the rise, with people singing more about who they are instead of giving praise & glory to Jesus.
There is much excitement in the church, but what good is that? "Getting your praise on" does not equal holiness, without which no man will see the Lord.
P&W rises while prayer declines, all the while the truth is replaced with fables.
When lies is preached/taught, what should we expect to happen? When true doctrine is shallow at best, what do we expect the congregation to be?
1Peter 4:17For it is time for judgment to begin [m]with the household of God; and if it begins [n]with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18AND IF IT IS WITH DIFFICULTY THAT THE RIGHTEOUS IS SAVED, [o]WHAT WILL BECOME OF THE GODLESS MAN AND THE SINNER?
19Therefore, those also who suffer according to the will of God are to entrust their souls to a faithful Creator in doing what is right.
Bad attitude?God also recently brought this to my mind and heart about your bad attitude:
Philippians 2:3 :
"Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves."This is why I felt unsettled about you're bad attitude toward forum members in general. You should take heed to what this verse says.
Dunno how you came to that conclusion.
Most of the non-attenders that frequent forums such as this have issues with interpersonal relationships. (Obviously)
But they still want to learn and know more about God.
I think that's a positive.
BUT
I would want them to be aware that not everyone here is exactly who they claim to be. And most likely someone they should NOT be learning from if they desire the truth instead of a God of someone's fantasy.
No one is ALL good or bad...people are a blend of good and bad attributes. Its not like they are carrying signs or something that indicates a polarizing side.
Even bad guys do incredible acts of kindness and have wonderful words of encouragement on a regular basis.
And seen good guys commit horrible acts of selfishness and visceral cruelty.
It requires wisdom to discern WHO someone is at core.
Only teenagers see others as a polar label of "good" or "bad" because they are too young to really have much wisdom.
Wisdom is not knowledge....wisdom is the correct application of knowledge.
Which is something that we can ask God for.
And as for many paragraphs.....uhhhh.....trying to have a conversation with you. Kinda goes beyond a quippy or snarky reply.