No not how it works buddy. YOU made a claim so YOU need to back up your claim with a Catholic source. Youre making claims about a subject you clearly know nothing about. You are 100% reliant on someone else telling you what Catholics believe rather than finding out for your yourself. I won't call you intellectually lazy but you're not a serious thinker.
Understanding apologetics
- Thread starter Jordon
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
So you won't but yet you claim he's wrong.
Ok so Question, is he wrong in saying to get drunk is a mortal sin in which you can lose some of your grace, where by you then have to earn back your level grace you had before you got drunk.
by performing acts of works such as daily surrender you can earn your level of grace back ?
No you make claims about Catholic beliefs but you want cite one Catholic source to support your beliefs. Your "pastor" isn't a valid source. What are you failing to understanding? Why do I even need to explain this to you?
well you see you started this whole Catholic debate with me. Are you roman Catholic or orthodox Catholic ?
So you saying these things here is like why do you need to explain things to me, isn't valid since you started to debate me.
I don't want to post a sermon that is going to upset you, as this thread was about understanding apolegetics from a reformed point of view.
plus the fact which I never knew your reason at first why you even started to debate me in others threads, was because you have always been debating works from a Catholic point of view, I never even knew you was Catholic until you started to defend RC doctrine
So I'm thinking your Roman Catholic
So which sermon should I go for Roman Catholic to pull up or orthodox ?
well I would ask, isn't your church caked in a History of people of your faith taking God's authority for granted, based on the act of penitence the second sacrament of justification where you can regain grace ? on the bases that it would be unjust if God didn't renew your grace back to full level of grace, after mortal sin of getting drunk if you perform penitence, so basically you can get drunk if ya want and say hey It would be unjust if God didn't restore my grace after penitence.
But then i suppose your church will have good people who know the difference between mortal sin and venial sin in your faith. But even then many think venial sin is no big deal either and they can they can take Gods authority for granted there to, with daily surrender. So it no big deal.
But maybe they take it seariously but do you ? You seem to be playing games here.
But wait your church taking Gods authority for granted gets worse with penitence and your grace being restored, isn't there some who believe, we'll actualky they can do a mortal sin but because it would be unjust of God not to restore grace after penitence, they have a dabble in that mortal sin. Like say paedophilia
Here's a friendly one as to why your followers get so worried.
Which is suggesting that if you don't confess to a priest you will start to lose grace. Or even if you don't confess your sin you will start to lose grace, suggesting presumptuous sin now means the devil can steal your grace all together.
Let's start here
second video based of the first video i showed you in my last post
When you confess to a priest after a mortal sin you get given absolution by God not by the priest obviously.
Can you explain your understanding of absolution
Does it mean you regain your key to heaven
What are the Common Examples of Mortal Sins? - Lay Cistercians https://share.google/uGl45owe66Xuo7Z3j
As Catholics, we grow up in the knowledge that committing a sin takes us farther away from God. But in the Catholic tradition, sins can be classified into two types: venial sins and mortal sins.
In this post, we’ll talk about the latter.
What is a Mortal Sin?
In a nutshell, a mortal sin is an act of serious offense that cuts us off from God’s sanctifying grace. Mortal sins, in short, are the gravest of sins and represent a deliberate turning away from God and His commandments.
Examples of Mortal Sins
The Catholic church does not really have an exhaustive list of mortal sins. But based on the conditions above, here are some of the most common examples of mortal sins.
1. Worshipping false gods
There’s a reason why the first of the ten commandments states that we shall not have any other Gods aside from the one true God. It’s simply the most important commandment of all. Thus, acts of worshipping false Gods rank high up on the list of mortal sins. This includes:
The sixth commandment states that a person should not kill because taking a life is a very grave matter. That’s why acts like the following are some of the worst examples of mortal sins:
Aside from the sixth commandment, many verses in the Bible have repeatedly emphasized that we should not commit adultery or marital infidelity. It’s inherently immoral. Not to mention that it can tear families apart. Hence, any sexual act you do with someone other than your wife or husband is a mortal sin. Examples of this include:
Stealing is also a mortal sin if the amount stolen is great. If the amount stolen is negligible then it is a venial sin. Taking something that’s not yours is a direct violation of the seventh commandment, making it a grave sin.
The seven deadly sins are considered to be the most serious sins man can commit. As such, they deserve a spot on this list. As per Catholic teachings, the seven deadly sins include:
According to Pope Pius X, oppressing the poor and taking advantage of their plight is one of those sins that cry to God for vengeance. This includes defrauding your workers of their wages. It’s equivalent to stealing, which is another grave offense. These acts are not only sinful in the eyes of God but also of men.
7. Blasphemy
In his writings, St Thomas Aquinas states that “blasphemy or any word or deed that is an insult to God is much more grievous than perjury.” Using the name of the Lord in vain is not only an insult to the holiness of His name but also a violation of the second commandment
As Catholics, we grow up in the knowledge that committing a sin takes us farther away from God. But in the Catholic tradition, sins can be classified into two types: venial sins and mortal sins.
In this post, we’ll talk about the latter.
What is a Mortal Sin?
In a nutshell, a mortal sin is an act of serious offense that cuts us off from God’s sanctifying grace. Mortal sins, in short, are the gravest of sins and represent a deliberate turning away from God and His commandments.
Examples of Mortal Sins
The Catholic church does not really have an exhaustive list of mortal sins. But based on the conditions above, here are some of the most common examples of mortal sins.
1. Worshipping false gods
There’s a reason why the first of the ten commandments states that we shall not have any other Gods aside from the one true God. It’s simply the most important commandment of all. Thus, acts of worshipping false Gods rank high up on the list of mortal sins. This includes:
- Idolatry. Idolizing other Gods is a mortal sin because you are worshiping and putting your faith in a false god. Adoration of a false god is a grave matter and is considered a mortal sin.
- Sacrilege. Heresy is when you dishonor or disrespect something that’s considered sacred and holy, such as burning a cross, defacing Catholic churches, or desecrating any elements of the Eucharist.
- Atheism. Atheism means that you don’t believe in any God, including the one true and living God, which, in itself, is a violation of the first commandment.
The sixth commandment states that a person should not kill because taking a life is a very grave matter. That’s why acts like the following are some of the worst examples of mortal sins:
- Abortion. Abortion is killing a baby while it’s still inside the womb. In Catholic doctrine, abortion still counts as murder because a fetus has a life too.
- Euthanasia. Also known as “mercy killing”, euthanasia is still a grave matter and is considered a mortal sin. Regardless of the motive, it’s still an act of murder.
- Suicide. Taking a life, whether other people’s or your own, is a grave offense. Life is life, no matter whose it is.
- Murder/Manslaughter. The fifth commandment literally prohibits this. Thus, you know full well that it’s a sin, and yet you deliberately did it. All these make it one of the gravest of the mortal sins on this list.
Aside from the sixth commandment, many verses in the Bible have repeatedly emphasized that we should not commit adultery or marital infidelity. It’s inherently immoral. Not to mention that it can tear families apart. Hence, any sexual act you do with someone other than your wife or husband is a mortal sin. Examples of this include:
- Pornography. These days, watching or reading pornographic materials have become more common. But that doesn’t make it less sinful. Pornography, in whatever medium, is a direct violation of the commandment against adultery. Even though there is no physical contact, it still involves lustful thoughts. As Mathew 5:28 says, just looking at someone with lustful intent is already committing adultery in your heart.
- Fornication. Fornication is a sexual interaction between two people who are not bound by matrimony. According to the bible, God prohibits it, and thus can also be considered a mortal sin.
- Prostitution. Prostitution is also a mortal sin unless you’re a victim of sex trafficking. It is when you use your body for sex and ask for money in return. This act defiles your body and dishonors God.
- Rape. Forcing yourself on someone is a grave matter and an act of pure evil. This mortal sin violates the integrity and freedom of the victim and can damage their soul for the rest of their life.
Stealing is also a mortal sin if the amount stolen is great. If the amount stolen is negligible then it is a venial sin. Taking something that’s not yours is a direct violation of the seventh commandment, making it a grave sin.
- Theft. Even St. Paul wrote in the bible that thieves and swindlers have no place in the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).
- Robbery. This form of stealing involves using violence, force, or intimidation to take other people’s belongings. By the very grave nature of this act, it should be no wonder that this is a mortal sin.
The seven deadly sins are considered to be the most serious sins man can commit. As such, they deserve a spot on this list. As per Catholic teachings, the seven deadly sins include:
- pride
- anger
- lust
- envy
- gluttony
- avarice
- sloth
According to Pope Pius X, oppressing the poor and taking advantage of their plight is one of those sins that cry to God for vengeance. This includes defrauding your workers of their wages. It’s equivalent to stealing, which is another grave offense. These acts are not only sinful in the eyes of God but also of men.
7. Blasphemy
In his writings, St Thomas Aquinas states that “blasphemy or any word or deed that is an insult to God is much more grievous than perjury.” Using the name of the Lord in vain is not only an insult to the holiness of His name but also a violation of the second commandment
Re "Mortal sins represent a deliberate turning away from God and His commandments.": Yes as follows:
1. "Mortal" means "damning or condemning to hell".
2. "represent" means "indicate or signify, as in "words come from the heart" (cf. Luke 6:45).
3. "deliberate" means "an intentional of will".
4. "turning away from God" means ignoring GW or rejecting God's resistible grace.
5. "His commandments" means God's requirement for salvation aka the kerygma.
interesting he calls getting your keys to heaven given back to you , a case of Boom
Interesting catholics belief is after your saved by grace, grace becomes a sanctifying process
Where as his word declares when your saved by grace your justified.
So in a nut shell in Catholic church history only there special saints have ever been 100 percent justified.
Here's the problem
Here at cc it's made to look as if that's what Calvinism believes.
Wrong it's actually catholicism.
Basically John Calvin fell out with the Catholics because he believed mortal sin could be forgiven upon baptism and you could never lose your grace after that.
Meaning all people are justified by grace, when saved and grace is not a sanctifying process
Meaning all people
Traditionally apologetics is twofold. One side is to be prepared to defend your faith against challenges from outsiders, that is to be ready to explain how your faith makes sense, most Christians find this relatively easy. The other, and much harder, side is to be prepared to present your faith to others where they are at. This requires being able to make your case without resorting to scripture, as the person you are talking to does not have to accept scripture as authoritative and might even see reason to doubt it. If all you can do is tell them what scripture says and not express the same ideas in terms of what they find authoritative, you fail.
I prefer to lean on coherence being a process of sanctification rather than grace.
It may be that an objective argument could have valid grounds if it's proven, but then you could only real prove that objection wrong, quite quickly, if God has placed in you, instruction to perform his miracles at his command. So as it's stands in debates we have to go through the whole word, but then somebody could then raise the objective argument your just debating, whilst not realising the question they ask is open to debate. Its the same as those claiming your intension is to be authoritive over me, such people never bow down to God either, and if they did, was it for him or them ?
And in the case of apologetics here, it could be many many times, until its fully realised, because people will have unesacary objections, and many times for the wrong reasons. It can also be that actually your understanding could be wrong to,
There is always room for error on someone's part, and always the possibility of unnecessary objections. My point is merely that should you tell the person you are talking to that they MUST accept what you consider important that you are placing an unnecessary obstacle in their path. If instead you determine what they consider to be important, and work from that, they have fewer reasons to erect unnecessary objections, and will in fact, actually be arguing against themselves.
Remember Jesus with the Samaritan woman, he did not tell her that she needed to become a full Jew, rather he told her he was there for the Jews. Her response that even the dogs may eat the crumbs from their master's table moved Him to treat her well, He had no good counter to her argument, He did not make her come to His point of view, He moved to hers.
well I know it's important to confess your sins and not fall into habitual sin, and not take Gods mercy for granted, and I'm thankful the Catholics preach that message, and state the seriousness of the sin of presumption, but then I have to question why should I lose my grace if I have been deceived by the devil ? On many reasons
Or another question why should God take away my grace, when God would know taking advantage of his mercy can be something in which you could commit a sin quite easily. ?
On the bases of going on to catholic reasoning, and Going into temptation now from devil.
There could be a thousand reason how the devil could appeal to God's mercy and you sin again.
But on the bases catholics priest say well, if thats the case God will forgive you if you confess.
But if you don't you lose your grace ?
You see where I'm going ? God will forgive you anyway but at the same time if you don't confess your not forgiven ? Despite the devil being at fault
I personally go for the fruits of the spirit will make you aware and also give you forgiveness and make you aware not to do it gain
I do not really want to debate the merits of RC theology over the various Protestant ones I see flaws of both sides. In 1 John we are told to confess our sins. Jesus told people, "Go and sin no more". Now I know of no person who has accomplished Jesus's command, and how to interpret John's is open to debate., should it be just to a priest, public confession to all around or just private, between just the individual and God, and if the latter, is that true confession or just self-absolution?
Well it should be questioned, in order to understand the theology, is my view, not that is being authoritive to say you should, but to see whether or not, grace is a sanctifying process or whether or not coherence is a sanctifying process.
Quietly clearly we seem to be taught we learn by our mistakes
Far too many people believe that they need to defend their specific view, and that means trashing all other views and those who present them. I see no benefit in that. From what I have seen so far, the RC view is consider wrong on virtually every point and the Protestant view is almost always God's intended position. This ignores far too many good points on both sides and either exaggerates or denies problems on both sides also. I do not wish to be a part of that.
Now having said that, I am always open to respectful conversations, but I do not want what I say misrepresented and questions ignored, especially not when if I fail to answer a question or I misunderstand what someone else says, I get rebuked.
Now having said that, I am always open to respectful conversations, but I do not want what I say misrepresented and questions ignored, especially not when if I fail to answer a question or I misunderstand what someone else says, I get rebuked.