We can agree on that. I don't watch those videoes but nobodys forcing you to stop.
Understanding apologetics
- Thread starter Jordon
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We can agree on that. I don't watch those videoes but nobodys forcing you to stop.
I'm not telling you to watch them I'm asking you because you should really examine the evidence
I can post you a video of a Catholic hating sola fide if you want
God grace makes salvation available but it's presumptuous of you to assume you're worthy of it.
I brought it forward
"IOW, the ability to do good works as well as have saving faith are both due to God’s resistible grace."
Spot on. Faith without works is dead. A dead faith is not salvific. Works complete faith just like Scripture teaches.
ok well there's always tomorrow, and who knows what tomorrow brings. I'm off now.
Bye bye friend.
I don't disagree with anything you said there. But genuine faith *always* produces works. Unbelievers can also produce works, but those works are not by faith and are not salvific.
Unless scripture changes before tomorrow, tomorrow will bring the same result.
Adios amigo
First I'm not sure faith needs the qualifier "genuine" which is different than faith completed by works. The *always* is the problem. If that were true there would be no final judgement but that's not the case. The tomato plant always produces tomatoes but it doesn't do so out of love. Love requires freedom to say no.
Those who are born again by grace through faith will produce good works. Those who produce works not by faith are not born again. We can't tell the difference, so we leave it to God. We can however know for ourselves, because scripture tells us we can.
that's one of the reasons why catholics torment themselves and people of the protestant faith
Tomatoes are fruit and don't have the capacity to love. There is a different kind of fruit that those who are born again produce.
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law." -- Gal 5:22-23
That depends on how you define faith. I have come to understand that there is no qualitative difference between faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and faith that accepts God’s working grace or motivates good works while walking/living (Eph. 2:8-10, 2Cor. 5:7), but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime (Rom. 1:17). IOW, the ability to do good works as well as have saving faith are both due to God’s resistible grace.
we are justified by faith alone. That's what your not including here.
What that means the most, and most important understanding in Christian faith building that you don't have keep seeking a priest for confession. And you don't have keep being a guilty Catholic unsure of your faith being secured by justification, it's not complete sanctification, but it is justification, meaning you can free of guilt, because you can gain confidence over time and gain full assurance, by his faith assuring you your gift is true of his calling.
Basically it means your gift faith has been justified by God the father, because of the sons faith pleased God, so when the sons faith is given to you as a gift, it means your also now walking in his justification.
So it's justified to seek assurance.
At this point I think the horse-cart analogy should be helpful:
Faith is the horse that pulls a cartload of works, and
we should not put the cart before the horse,
but both are necessary per Eph. 2:8-10.