Rapture! Tribulation!

[cv5]

I'll let you in on the secret: No post-trib believer wants to go through the great tribulation.

But it's in the Bible. Jesus Himself is warning us. We have no other choice but to accept it and prepare for spiritual endurance just as Jesus has instructed us.

I know from talking to a few pre-tribbers that they have made room in their hearts for the possibility that they could be wrong and so are preparing themselves too for endurance in Christ when they go through the GT. VERY FEW.

But most are woefully unready since they really don't think they have to endure the terrible things to come to Christians then. They think terrible things are going to happen to the Jews but satan is going after ALL the people God cares for. So it's not just Jews but us Christians too

Jesus said it would be the worst time, never to be equaled. But if you want to get an idea about that, read about the different groups Hitler had exterminated - and then think of what happens in the GT being worse than that, just as Jesus warned.

It's not about who is inferior, but my goodness, pre-tribbers have really stuck their heads in the sand! They refuse to see it in the Bible no matter what is pointed out to them. So really the best thing is to sit back and let the great tribulation tell them what's what.

Once you see this, you realize the Bible is one integrated prophetic machine, not a collection of religious writings.

We’ll do this in two layers:

The Seven Feasts of Moses

The Tabernacle (Temple) pattern

Both independently encode a pre-tribulation sequence.

PART 1 — The Seven Feasts as God’s Prophetic Calendar

Leviticus 23 calls them “moedim” — appointed times.
Not Jewish holidays… God’s calendar of redemption.

There are 7 feasts, divided into:
• 4 Spring feasts → fulfilled at Christ’s First Coming
• 3 Fall feasts → fulfilled at His Second Coming

And between them… a long mysterious gap

Spring Feasts (already fulfilled)
Passover - Christ crucified
Unleavened Bread - Sinless burial
Firstfruits - Resurrection
Pentecost - Church born

These happened on their exact feast days.

That means the remaining feasts must also occur on their exact days.

The Long Gap — The Church Age

Between Pentecost and Trumpets is ~4 months of harvest with no feasts.

This is where we live now.

Gentiles are gathered.
Israel is set aside.
Exactly what Paul teaches in Romans 11.

Feast of Trumpets — The Rapture

Trumpets is:
• Sudden
• No one knows the day or hour (it depends on moon sighting)
• Begins with a trumpet blast
• Opens the civil year
• Ends the harvest

That is literally:

“The trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised…” (1 Cor 15)

Trumpets is not the Second Coming — it begins the Day of the Lord, not the Kingdom.

Day of Atonement — Israel’s repentance

Occurs 10 days after Trumpets

This is when Israel:
• Weeps
• Repents
• Is nationally restored

This is Zechariah 12 & Romans 11 happening.

Feast of Tabernacles — The Kingdom

God dwelling with man.
Messiah reigning.
The nations coming to Jerusalem.

This is Revelation 20.

So the sequence is:
Pentecost - Church born
Trumpets - Church removed (Rapture)
Atonement - Israel restored
Tabernacles - Kingdom begins

You cannot move Trumpets after Atonement without destroying the entire calendar.

PART 2 — The Tabernacle Pattern

The Tabernacle is a 3-zone model of redemption

Area Who can enter Prophetic meaning
Outer Court Anyone World
Holy Place Priests Church
Holy of Holies High Priest only God’s throne

Now watch the pattern:

The priest enters the Holy Place daily.
The High Priest enters the Holy of Holies once per year on Yom Kippur.

That day = Tribulation climax.

But first — the priesthood must be removed from the Holy Place.

The Church does not stand in the Holy Place when God’s wrath is poured out.

The furniture also preaches it:

You walk in this order:

Brazen altar (Cross)

Laver (Cleansing)

Lampstand (Church)

Table of bread (Communion)

Altar of incense (prayers of saints)

Veil

Ark (God’s wrath seat)

In Revelation:
• The Church disappears after chapter 3
• Incense rises in heaven
• Then seals, trumpets, bowls begin

Exact match.

The final truth

The Bible encodes this truth everywhere:

God gathers His bride, then judges the world, then restores Israel, then brings the Kingdom.

It is not speculation.
It is the design of Scripture.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

You cannot move Trumpets after Atonement without destroying the entire calendar.

The day of atonement began to be fulfilled when Christ rose from the dead to enter the holiest place in heaven to present his blood both for himself and for his people. There he has remained for nearly 2000 years making reconciliation with his blood. Nine days after he emerges from the temple to return to earth (day of trumpets) he will completely fulfill the day of atonement by fulfilling the antitype of the scapegoat being banished alive into the wilderness.

I don't think that anyone can realistically argue that Christ isn't now in the holy of holies making reconciliation with his blood for his people, thus fulfilling that aspect of the day of atonement.

Also, beginning in chapter 4 John's location changes from earth to heaven, and lo and behold, the church isn't there. Why? Because it's on earth where John just came from.

 

[cv5]

The day of atonement began to be fulfilled when Christ rose from the dead to enter the holiest place in heaven to present his blood both for himself and for his people. There he has remained for nearly 2000 years making reconciliation with his blood. Nine days after he emerges from the temple to return to earth (day of trumpets) he will completely fulfill the day of atonement by fulfilling the antitype of the scapegoat being banished alive into the wilderness.

I don't think that anyone can realistically argue that Christ isn't now in the holy of holies making reconciliation with his blood for his people, thus fulfilling that aspect of the day of atonement.

Also, beginning in chapter 4 John's location changes from earth to heaven, and lo and behold, the church isn't there. Why? Because it's on earth where John just came from.

Nope. Rapture is boilerplate. Conclusively proven beyond doubt confirmed by the ACTUAL BIBLE,
the GOLD STANDARD of which being the patterns, types shadows.

Not some bloviating opinion based on train-wreck Reformed ideology.

 

[Omegatime]

Lot being removed from judgement is the most powerful story for me as well as what happened to the most powerful nation on earth--America? And why would Israel seek another to replace America? And why would God send his 2 witnesses back and 144 K others ( jews ), then at least 2 billion christians are gone

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Millions of believers think differently. Some, including at least one Messianic Jewish preacher, think that the GT is for Jews in Israel. Everyone has the same Bible. Tell me how you get ready for unimaginable horrors? Do you look at holocaust pictures and imagine yourself being tortured? Do you read all the plagues and destruction coming on the earth according to the book of Revelation? What is your strategy?

My motivation is a little different. I believe that Jesus could take me home any day. I'm past my best before date anyway. Every day is a bonus. My desire is to fulfill the calling that God has on my life. I believe that we are seeing the time Jesus said that we should lift up our heads because our redemption is drawing near. That redemption is the transformation of the physical body to the spiritual body and being taken from this earth until Jesus returns to stand on the Mount of Olives. Am I right? I will find out sooner or later.

Personally, I believe that real believers will be taken up prior to the Great Tribulation. Those who are pretenders will be left behind. They will have an opportunity to get real with God even at the cost of their lives. How much better to be real now.

Preparation

No need to look at pictures but it would help you to know what satan will do through the antichrist. Read up on what all previous antichrists have done to the people God cares about, both Jews and Christians.

Also pay attention to how God deals with all the persecution and martyrdom of His people. He allows a lot of it. But curiously, it is the most effective way to draw people to God and get saved. Why? Because people will see He is worth making their Lord and Savior if they see God’s people remaining faithful even unto torture and death.

So to prepare for this, you just need to come under God’s mighty hand. Submit to Him and He will begin to exercise your faith so that when the time comes your faith won't break - He will strengthen it so that you don't fall away - even at the point of torrure and/or death.

Coming Home to Jesus

I've lived a full life too and would love come to home to Him now. There was an event where I was bleeding profusely and thought to myself, "Hmm... I could just let myself bleed to death. Then I can come home to Jesus!" But God’s still small voice was emphatic, "You're not going to die this way or at this time, Go to the emergency room right now!" So, I had to go....

Entrenched Belief

It is no surprise that most Christians believe in the pre-trib rapture. God said that most will no longer believe sound doctrine as the last days approaches, just like He said in the Bible. They're deeply entrenched in this false teaching that they won't accept the reality that we'll go through it. So really the best thing is to let them continue in this delusion until the great tribulation looks at them square in the face and they finally realize they're in it. I even think a lot of them will still be hopeful that Jesus will collect them DURING the great tribulation when rhe Bible specifically says it's AFTER.

 

[cv5]

Preparation

No need to look at pictures but it would help you to know what satan will do through the antichrist. Read up on what all previous antichrists have done to the people God cares about, both Jews and Christians.

Also pay attention to how God deals with all the persecution and martyrdom of His people. He allows a lot of it. But curiously, it is the most effective way to draw people to God and get saved. Why? Because people will see He is worth making their Lord and Savior if they see God’s people remaining faithful even unto torture and death.

So to prepare for this, you just need to come under God’s mighty hand. Submit to Him and He will begin to exercise your faith so that when the time comes your faith won't break - He will strengthen it so that you don't fall away - even at the point of torrure and/or death.

Coming Home to Jesus

I've lived a full life too and would love come to home to Him now. There was an event where I was bleeding profusely and thought to myself, "Hmm... I could just let myself bleed to death. Then I can come home to Jesus!" But God’s still small voice was emphatic, "You're not going to die this way or at this time, Go to the emergency room right now!" So, I had to go....

Entrenched Belief

It is no surprise that most Christians believe in the pre-trib rapture. God said that most will no longer believe sound doctrine as the last days approaches, just like He said in the Bible. They're deeply entrenched in this false teaching that they won't accept the reality that we'll go through it. So really the best thing is to let them continue in this delusion until the great tribulation looks at them square in the face and they finally realize they're in it. I even think a lot of them will still be hopeful that Jesus will collect them DURING the great tribulation when rhe Bible specifically says it's AFTER.

Nope. Wrong. And as we can see, your offer zero Scriptural proofs for your assertions.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Nope. Wrong. And as we can see, your offer zero Scriptural proofs for your assertions.

Because you're not going to accept it anyway. Best to just let the great tribulation tell you itself.

 

[Omegatime]

Time is coming when Satan will offer the antichrist the world as he did Yeshua

 

[Inquisitor]

Are you saying His return is not imminent?

Here is an example of two events that must occur before Jesus can return.

Luke 21:24
And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be
trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

The times of the Gentiles must be fulfilled.

Anyone want to state when the age of the Gentiles will be fulfilled?

Luke 21:25-27
There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity
at the roaring of the sea and the waves, men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which
are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then they will see the Son of Man
coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Changes to galactic, atmospheric, and oceanic conditions, take time to eventuate, there not overnight.

We know that the oceans are not roaring yet and there are no signs in the sun and the moon.

So Jesus won't return soon.

What is more interesting is that the apostles thought the return of Jesus was imminent.

Yet, it would be near 40 years before the abomination of the desolation of the temple would take place.

Avoid the eschatology in Matthew 24 as it was probably written before AD 70.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Anyone want to state when the age of the Gentiles will be fulfilled?

When the 7th trumpet sounds, that will signify the end.

 

[Karlon]

the top 5 subjects in the Bible most misunderstood by Christians are: tithing, tongues, women pastoralship, remarriage & the rapture-tribulation events. for all of you who believe the tribulation will occur before the rapture, what sense does it make for a born again Christian to be here at that time while atheists are going to be on earth too? what are you saved from? study Matthew 24:21, 1st Corinthians 15:52, 1st Thessalonians 5:9, 1st Thessalonians 4:13-18, Romans 5: 8 & 9. i could explain this forever but i'm not.
1. Matthew 24:21- during the great Tribulation but before the peaceful Millennium begins, God will pour out His wrath & creation will be judged.
2. Corinthians 15:52- the phrase, "at the last trump", means that is the last sound of the trump of the present age.
3. 1st Thessalonians 5:9- "for God HATH NOT APPOINTED US TO WRATH BUT TO OBTAIN SALVATION by our Lord & savior, Jesus Christ". the wrath is the agony beginning at the day of the Lord. the day of the Lord is God's judgement & restoration intensifying in the tribulation which is the 7 year period.
4. 1st Thessalonians 4:13-18- widely to be the most explicit detailed word on the order of the rapture: "then we, which are alive & remain SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM ......" the rapture is the 1st phase of Jesus' return concerning all Christians alive at that time RECEIVING GLORIFIED BODIES. many people forget about the brand new perfect glorified bodies Christians receive when talking on this subject. !!!
5. Romans 5: 8 & 9 ".....much more then, being justified by His blood, WE SHALL BE SAVED FROM WRATH THRU HIM'!

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

for all of you who believe the tribulation will occur before the rapture, what sense does it make for a born again Christian to be here at that time while atheists are going to be on earth too? what are you saved from? study Matthew 24:21, 1st Corinthians 15:52, 1st Thessalonians 5:9, 1st Thessalonians 4:13-18, Romans 5: 8 & 9. i could explain this forever but i'm not.

Quite alright, precious brother, I have already given an eternal expounding of the
God's Wonderful Comforting Doctrine here: Post # 3

And, precious friend, Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:

The Bible: The BIG Picture

Amen.

 

[cv5]

the top 5 subjects in the Bible most misunderstood by Christians are: tithing, tongues, women pastoralship, remarriage & the rapture-tribulation events. for all of you who believe the tribulation will occur before the rapture, what sense does it make for a born again Christian to be here at that time while atheists are going to be on earth too? what are you saved from? study Matthew 24:21, 1st Corinthians 15:52, 1st Thessalonians 5:9, 1st Thessalonians 4:13-18, Romans 5: 8 & 9. i could explain this forever but i'm not.
1. Matthew 24:21- during the great Tribulation but before the peaceful Millennium begins, God will pour out His wrath & creation will be judged.
2. Corinthians 15:52- the phrase, "at the last trump", means that is the last sound of the trump of the present age.
3. 1st Thessalonians 5:9- "for God HATH NOT APPOINTED US TO WRATH BUT TO OBTAIN SALVATION by our Lord & savior, Jesus Christ". the wrath is the agony beginning at the day of the Lord. the day of the Lord is God's judgement & restoration intensifying in the tribulation which is the 7 year period.
4. 1st Thessalonians 4:13-18- widely to be the most explicit detailed word on the order of the rapture: "then we, which are alive & remain SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM ......" the rapture is the 1st phase of Jesus' return concerning all Christians alive at that time RECEIVING GLORIFIED BODIES. many people forget about the brand new perfect glorified bodies Christians receive when talking on this subject. !!!
5. Romans 5: 8 & 9 ".....much more then, being justified by His blood, WE SHALL BE SAVED FROM WRATH THRU HIM'!

Correct.

@Cameron143 stipulates that Matt 27:52 is the rapture. He is wrong of course, as are all the post-tribbers.
You see, there is NO RECORD in Scripture of any ***Church age*** LIVING person being raptured.

Mat 27:52
And the graves were opened; and many (DEAD) bodies of the saints which slept arose,
(probably a Lazarus type raising).

Th 4:15
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1Th 4:17
Then we which are ***alive*** and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[Inquisitor]

the top 5 subjects in the Bible most misunderstood by Christians are: tithing, tongues, women pastoralship, remarriage & the rapture-tribulation events.

The top 5 misunderstood subjects in Christianity according to who?

You quoted Matthew 24 and that was probably written before the desolation of the temple.

Matthew places the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in the end times.

Try reading Luke 21 and get a handle on the age of the Gentiles, that occurs after Jerusalem
is sacked. No one has any idea how long the age of the Gentiles will take. What we do know
for certain is that an apostle writing in the first century. May have thought the return of Jesus
was imminent but we know in hindsight. That they would be absolutely wrong. Simple because
an entire age of the Gentiles must first occur.

 

[Inquisitor]

Correct.

@Cameron143 stipulates that Matt 27:52 is the rapture. He is wrong of course, as are all the post-tribbers.
You see, there is NO RECORD in Scripture of any ***Church age*** LIVING person being raptured.

Mat 27:52
And the graves were opened; and many (DEAD) bodies of the saints which slept arose,
(probably a Lazarus type raising).

Th 4:15
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1Th 4:17
Then we which are ***alive*** and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Correct.

 

[Inquisitor]

When the 7th trumpet sounds, that will signify the end.

What about the bowl judgement?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

What about the bowl judgement?

Those come after the resurrection IMO, but before Armageddon

 

[Inquisitor]

Those come after the resurrection IMO, but before Armageddon

So way before the end of all things?

 

[cv5]

Correct.

@Cameron143 stipulates that Matt 27:52 is the rapture. He is wrong of course, as are all the post-tribbers.
You see, there is NO RECORD in Scripture of any ***Church age*** LIVING person being raptured.

Mat 27:52
And the graves were opened; and many (DEAD) bodies of the saints which slept arose,
(probably a Lazarus type raising).

Th 4:15
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1Th 4:17
Then we which are ***alive*** and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

BTW, the point is that BOTH the preterists and post-tribbers are wrong!

 

[cv5]

What about the bowl judgement?

If you really want to know about the rapture, DOTL sequence, book of Revelation etc,
use the search bar on the link below and find out.

If you are lazy and will not take a few week or months to work thru a few lectures, you will be mired in
the same mud of biblical illiteracy that so many people are stuck in.

https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/cliffside/sermons/search/revelation/

I have spend dozens and dozens of hours going thru these and tons of others.
And I now know.......!