Did God create people for Hell on purpose?

[Genez]

Yes, and what did RBT say "created in God's image" means?

I do not recall what he said.
I do know it was not what I said.
I got what I said after learning his break-down of the Hebrew that he provided.

For when God created man and woman in his image in Genesis 1:27?
It was an action of creating something out from nothing [bara].
An instant creation of something!
Of something which was unseen to man.
That's how we can know it is speaking of the souls.

For, in Chapter 2?

The human body was derived by the Lord from utilizing something that could be seen, and had already been created out from nothing.
For the Lord God molded and formed [jatsar] the lifeless body out from the elements of the earth.
Next time you are in a health food store, take a look at the ingredients listed on a multi mineral bottle.
They are the elements of the earth!

What was breathed into the nostrils of the lifeless body by the Lord?
It was what God had just previously created out from nothing.
It was Adam's soul!

First came Adam.
Then the woman.
Male and female souls for the bodies God prepared for those souls!

It is our soul that is either male or female.
The body was designed to suite the gender of the soul, not cause it!

Grace and Peace ............

 

[Brasspen]

Human interpretation is God created it from nothing. But what might the real truth be? God gave Adam breath by breathing into him. Have you heard of energy to matter conversion?

 

[Genez]

A little confused, Didn't God breathe into Adam and Adam became a living Soul before the fall, the eating of that tree, willingly?

Did not God's Spirit leave the first Adam after he ate from that tree with Eve? Not his Soul! to me anyways.

Since, then every person is born first without the Spirit of God's lead, only having the knowledge of good (God) and evil, Ha Satan, desiring to be God to be happening through them. Is that true? To me it is. Only one choice left after the cross, To believe God personally in risen Son for you and for all also. Or choose, self and religion(s) to find truth and continue to be not knowing truth over error, hell, here still on earth

Now, we all each, have the free choice to choose God or self even others to be under them too, correct?
Who is your leader?
God Father and Son as Won for you to respond to God for you?, In thanksgiving and praise.
Or, continue in your own thought experiences you have gone through to be a better person than others? Luke 18:9-14 it is the forgiveness given that frees and saves people by God and not of anything else.
I see, best to give up on me and others to see. Since God loves us all and is the revealer to it all in love and mercy of Son to all
Respond and quit creating, making up things out of scriptures. Read the whole Epistle, to get the truth form God for us Thank you
I see 1 John 2:1-27, verse 27 floored me when Father revealed that truth to me and in Phil 3 as well through Paul to us all to let go of being a better person, under Law as no one is better than anyone else. All are in different stages. To grow up unto maturity Hebrews 5:12-6:20
turn to God in your own closet, she the door and have a talk with Father, since now by Son anyone can nor enter the throne of grace done by Son fr them. WowWoe is me, I see Isaiah 6:1-7, thank you Father
No more need to have thoughts going on through me. 2 Cor 10:5-7
The work is done for us all to be new from Father as a gift to love all the same as Son has done first for us all. Wow is me

I will try to narrow it down to something as simple as possible.
But, that will be a challenge.

First. You asked a relatively short question.
Then made a rather long list of speculative thinking.
I will only cover your question.

I will only start here for now.
It seems you believe God gave Adam his soul and the Holy Spirit?
For you used a capital S when speaking of his Spirit.

God breathed into the nostrils, the breath of LIVES! Plural. Not simply life!

What was breathed into the nostrils?
The human soul... and the human spirit.

It is the human spirit that connects the soul to the spiritual things of God.
The indwelling Holy Spirit teaches and empowers us not to live for our sin nature.

When Adam died after eating?
He lost his human spirit.

The Holy Spirit was not to be given to permanently indwell humans until the Church age began.
That is why it says that we (the Church) have become a new creation in Christ!

Grace and Peace ..........

 

[PaulThomson]

According to your logic?
The 'past' does not exist.

Problem is....
You keep limiting God to being just like you.

How else could God have had John write Revelation, unless He sees and knows the future?
In sections of the Scriptures, it was written about a future event as something which already exists.
Yes... God does not think like us.

God does not require that we understand how.
God requires that we believe it = faith.

"Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see."

Hebrews 11:1

Faith!​

The past does not exist. Memories of events that happened in the past exist in the present. Memories of the past are things in the present. The past existed. The past cannot change. It has happened already.
Only the present, and what exists in the present, exists (present tense).
The future will exist. The future has not happened. It does not exist (present tense). Imaginations of what could become, exist in the present. But what could become does not exist (present tense) in the present. Only the imagination of what could become exists in the present. If God determines a particular plan will occur in the future, it will happen, unless he changes his mind because circumstances change, and make a different plan that is compatible with His character, preferable to Him later on.

Is 1:
4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the Lord, they
11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

God sets two possible futures before Israel and tells them to choose which one by how they choose to behave in the present.
God predict a future that will occur IF the people continue on their present trajectory. And also predicts a different future that will occur IF they change their present trajectory by repenting. God does not know for certain which they will choose until they choose. Nineveh chose repentance and a better future. Hezekiah chose repentance and received 15 more years of a better future. Judah chose their present trajectory and walked on into the predicted worse future.

 

[Genez]

energy to matter conversion

Energy can be converted into matter through a process called pair production, where a photon transforms
into a particle and its corresponding antiparticle. This process adheres to the laws of thermodynamics,
which state that energy and matter are interchangeable, but creating something from nothing is impossible.

 

[Genez]

The past does not exist..

God does not exist inside of time. He is eternal.
Time was a creation!
God was never created.

Everlasting life = Had a beginning, but never ends.

Eternal life = Has no beginning and has no end.

God is eternal life.
He can freely travel to anywhere in time instantly.

That is why I believe when the judgment comes?
People will see (and experience) what they had done as if they were just doing it!
They will be made to relive a past moment as if it were just taking place.

That is why?
There will be no arguing with God when that happens!
The judgment will be final.

 

[Genez]

IT says "knowing all THINGS" The future is not a THING. The future does not exist. Plans for the future exist in the present or past.

Then?

You are arguing over no-thing!

 

[GWH]

I do not recall what he said.
I do know it was not what I said.
I got what I said after learning his break-down of the Hebrew that he provided.

For when God created man and woman in his image in Genesis 1:27?
It was an action of creating something out from nothing [bara].
An instant creation of something!
Of something which was unseen to man.
That's how we can know it is speaking of the souls.

For, in Chapter 2?

The human body was derived by the Lord from utilizing something that could be seen, and had already been created out from nothing.
For the Lord God molded and formed [jatsar] the lifeless body out from the elements of the earth.
Next time you are in a health food store, take a look at the ingredients listed on a multi mineral bottle.
They are the elements of the earth!

What was breathed into the nostrils of the lifeless body by the Lord?
It was what God had just previously created out from nothing.
It was Adam's soul!

First came Adam.
Then the woman.
Male and female souls for the bodies God prepared for those souls!

It is our soul that is either male or female.
The body was designed to suite the gender of the soul, not cause it!

Grace and Peace ............

My memory is not very good, but I seem to remember learning the phrase "God-consciousness" as part
of what it means to have a human soul from RBT. Of course "moral conscience" comes from Gen. 3:22,
but it also references Rom. 2:9-16.
Ditto G&P!

 

[Genez]

But where is this written, That God sees all events like this. And what end would there be too it, knowing the future is forever advancing. I think this thing about God's mind, has been "Assumed". We don't know the mind of God.

I think that is what the truth is, "We Do Not Know".

I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times,
what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please.’

Isaiah 46:10

Grab some popcorn!
​

.​

 

[Shepherd]

21Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden,

I'm reminded of a movie clip where George C. Scott explains the "Tulip" theology to a prostitute.....a prostitute.
I won't repeat her reply to his exsplanantion but, it was perfectly clear that she considered "Tulip" theology to be evil. I know she was an actor and not a real prostitute but, from what she said, I don't think she was a Christian either; just another immoral Hollywood actor. But what I want you to see, from this, is that even LOST people can and do discern good from evil, like the Bible says Adam could, and they can apparently discern that any god(little g) who would create people for the express purpose if sending them to Hell, would be an EVIL sadistic NARCISSIST of the worst kind.

All I can understand from that is that "Calvinists" are either fools "thinking themselves to be wise" or they are just full of the devil and more deceived than an ordinary lost person.....IF they are even saved at all.

 

[Genez]

My memory is not very good, but I seem to remember learning the phrase "God-consciousness" as part
of what it means to have a human soul from RBT. Of course "moral conscience" comes from Gen. 3:22,
but it also references Rom. 2:9-16.
Ditto G&P!

God consciousness comes from having both the Soul (who we are) and having a human spirit (the connection to God consciousness).
It means, having an awareness of God. Sensing that God must exist.
For the unregenerate person.
When God is drawing him?
The Holy Spirit must temporarily take up the slack for the missing human spirit.
At regeneration the Holy Spirit begets the human spirit for him to function with.

1 Corinthians 2:14, it says (in the KJV) that the natural man can not know the things of God.

But, the Greek does not say "natural man.'
It says - psuchikos man = soulish man.

Meaning, a man having only a soul. Having no human spirit!



BTW.... I still order messages and listen to RBT every day since 1982.

Grace and peace!

 

[Genez]

21Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden,

I'm reminded of a movie clip where George C. Scott explains the "Tulip" theology to a prostitute.....a prostitute.
I won't repeat her reply to his exsplanantion but, it was perfectly clear that she considered "Tulip" theology to be evil. I know she was an actor and not a real prostitute but, from what she said, I don't think she was a Christian either; just another immoral Hollywood actor. But what I want you to see, from this, is that even LOST people can and do discern good from evil, like the Bible says Adam could, and they can apparently discern that any god(little g) who would create people for the express purpose if sending them to Hell, would be an EVIL sadistic NARCISSIST of the worst kind.

All I can understand from that is that "Calvinists" are either fools "thinking themselves to be wise" or they are just full of the devil and more deceived than an ordinary lost person.....IF they are even saved at all.

Interesting!

 

[PaulThomson]

I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times,
what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please.’

Isaiah 46:10

Grab some popcorn!
​

.​

The Hebrew says " I am God, making known an end from a beginning, and from the east things which have not been done, saying, My counsel shall stand and I will do all my pleasure. Calling a ravenous bird from the east, a man of my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

Nothing in there says God knew from the beginning of time that He was going to engineer this invasion from the east at this time.

 

[PaulThomson]

God does not exist inside of time. He is eternal.
Time was a creation!
God was never created.

Show us that in scripture.

 

[PaulThomson]

God is eternal life.
He can freely travel to anywhere in time instantly.

That is why I believe when the judgment comes?
People will see (and experience) what they had done as if they were just doing it!
They will be made to relive a past moment as if it were just taking place.

That is why?
There will be no arguing with God when that happens!
The judgment will be final.

All speculation and assertion with no biblical basis. All classical (based on Greek and Roman culture) metaphysics, not Hebraic biblical metaphysics.

 

[GWH]

God consciousness comes from having both the Soul (who we are) and having a human spirit (the connection to God consciousness).
It means, having an awareness of God. Sensing that God must exist.
For the unregenerate person.
When God is drawing him?
The Holy Spirit must temporarily take up the slack for the missing human spirit.
At regeneration the Holy Spirit begets the human spirit for him to function with.

1 Corinthians 2:14, it says (in the KJV) that the natural man can not know the things of God.

But, the Greek does not say "natural man.'
It says - psuchikos man = soulish man.

Meaning, a man having only a soul. Having no human spirit!

BTW.... I still order messages and listen to RBT every day since 1982.

Grace and peace!

Well, because animals also have souls per Gen. 1:20-24, I find it better to describe "soul" as body + life.
Yes, humans can have awareness of God or sense that God exists, which is what distinguishes them from animals.
God draws all unregenerate human souls until they are deemed to be undrawable (Rom. 2:4-8, Heb. 3:7-11).
The HS permanently indwells repentant humans, enabling them to reflect divine love (Rom. 5:5, Phil. 2:12-13).

 

[Just_A__Follower]

But where is this written, That God sees all events like this. And what end would there be too it, knowing the future is forever advancing. I think this thing about God's mind, has been "Assumed". We don't know the mind of God.

I think that is what the truth is, "We Do Not Know".

you are definitely correct that we don’t “know” the mind of God. We as humans could never comprehend His mind. With all the science and technology we have today, we still can’t fully comprehend our own minds. But the assumptions of God’s omnipresence and omniscience aren’t baseless assumptions. For one, as you mentioned are the prophets. Where do they get their prophecies from? God sees the future and provides the prophecies to them. Here are a few more for starters:

Psalm 139:1-4
“O Lord, you have searched me and known me! You know when I sit down and when I rise up; you discern my thoughts from afar. You search out my path and my lying down and are acquainted with all my ways. Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O Lord, you know it altogether.”

‭‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭46‬:‭9‬-‭10
“remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’”
‬
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭1‬:‭5‬
““Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.””

Matthew‬ ‭10‬:‭30
“But even the hairs of your head are all numbered.”
‭‭
Hebrews‬ ‭4‬:‭13
“And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.”
‭‭‬
As for the beginning and end, He would have no beginning but the beginning we see in Genesis would be the beginning of the physical reality we see today. The ending would be the end of physical reality. There will be no end to the spiritual since all will either live eternally with Him or apart from Him. That’s the way I see it. We see in scripture that He knows the future and He also sees everything everywhere. Does that make sense?

But where is this written, That God sees all events like this. And what end would there be too it, knowing the future is forever advancing. I think this thing about God's mind, has been "Assumed". We don't know the mind of God.

I think that is what the truth is, "We Do Not Know".

you are definitely correct that we don’t “know” the mind of God. We as humans could never fully comprehend His mind. With all the science and technology we have today, we still can’t fully comprehend our own minds. But the assumptions of God’s omnipresence and omniscience aren’t baseless assumptions. For one, as you mentioned are the prophets. Where do they get their prophecies from? God sees the future and provides the prophecies to them. Here are a few more for starters:

Psalm 139:1-4
“O Lord, you have searched me and known me! You know when I sit down and when I rise up; you discern my thoughts from afar. You search out my path and my lying down and are acquainted with all my ways. Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O Lord, you know it altogether.”

‭‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭46‬:‭9‬-‭10
“remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’”
‬
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭1‬:‭5‬
““Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.””

Matthew‬ ‭10‬:‭30
“But even the hairs of your head are all numbered.”
‭‭
Hebrews‬ ‭4‬:‭13
“And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.”
‭‭‬
As for the beginning and end, He would have no beginning but the beginning we see in Genesis would be the beginning of the physical reality we see today. The ending would be the end of physical reality. There will be no end to the spiritual since all will either live eternally with Him or apart from Him. That’s the way I see it. We see in scripture that He knows the future and He also sees everything everywhere. Does that make sense?

 

[Shepherd]

Show us that in scripture.

Isaiah 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

Psalm 90: Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

John 8:
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Do you not see how profound that last statement is? Jesus was basically telling them "before Abraham was".... I'm there NOW.
THAT is what "everlasting to everlasting" and "inhabiteth eternity" mean.

 

[PaulThomson]

Isaiah 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

Psalm 90: Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

John 8:
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Do you not see how profound that last statement is? Jesus was basically telling them "before Abraham was".... I'm there NOW.
THAT is what "everlasting to everlasting" and "inhabiteth eternity" mean.

The phrase inhabiteth eternity in Hebrew is שֹׁכֵן עַד , ShaKaN 'aD,

'aD means

1. perpetuity, for ever, continuing future
   1. ancient (of past time)
   2. for ever (of future time)
      1. of continuous existence
   3. for ever (of God's existence)

Literally "wh dwells in perpetuity. In perpetuity is not a timeless state.

From everlasting to everlasting in Ps 90is " וּמֵעוֹלָם עַד־עוֹלָם , U-M-'oLaM"

'oLaM means

1. long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world
   1. ancient time, long time (of past)
   2. (of future)
      1. for ever, always
      2. continuous existence, perpetual
      3. everlasting, indefinite or unending future, eternity

It is not a timeless state.

John 8:58
πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί i.e. before Abraham came into being, I am (or I have been, or I have existed).

The divine person who became Jesus of Nazareth has always existed, even before Abraham existed. That does not mean He inhabits a timeless state.

 

[PaulThomson]

According to your logic?
The 'past' does not exist.

Problem is....
You keep limiting God to being just like you.

How else could God have had John write Revelation, unless He sees and knows the future?
In sections of the Scriptures, it was written about a future event as something which already exists.
Yes... God does not think like us.

God does not require that we understand how.
God requires that we believe it = faith.

"Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see."

Hebrews 11:1

Faith!​

God is not "just like me".
You keep on limiting God to being nothing like you. And yet He made you in His image.

He could have John write Revelation because God, like us, can plan a future. Revelation was not written as a future event that already exists. Is was written as though it already was happening. God calls things that are not AS THOUGH they are,. He does not call things that are not because they already are.

Rom 4:17
(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. [καλοῦντος (calling) τὰ μὴ ὄντα (the not being) ὡς (as) ὄντα (being)·