The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

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Finding our 'sabbatismos' rest in Christ does not mean that Jesus became the sabbath day and is the sabbath day. Hebrews 4:9-10 presents Jesus as the fulfillment of the sabbath rest. So, there remains a sabbath rest for the people of God. For whoever enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His. This signifies that through Christ, believers can experience a spiritual rest that transcends the physical rest through the observance of a day. While the Old Testament laws served as a foreshadowing of Christ's ultimate reality, the substance and fulfillment of spiritual life is found in Christ.

Hebrews 4:10 says the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His. Believers have entered in God’s rest through Jesus as God ceased or rested from His works in the seventh day of creation. God's ultimate, true rest did not come through Joshua or Moses, but through Jesus Christ. Joshua led Israel into the promised land, which was merely the earthly rest which was but a shadow of what was involved in the heavenly rest. The rest in Christ that God offers is spiritual and is superior to that which Joshua obtained. Israel's earthly rest was filled with conflict and attacks from their enemies and the daily cycle of work.

Although for centuries the Jews had found their physical rest in a day, the New Covenant takes the focus off the shadows of the Old Testament signs and rituals and reveals their spiritual substance -- the fulfillment/reality—in the person of Jesus Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17) Christians find their "sabbatismos" rest in Jesus Christ and not in law keeping.

In Colossians 2:16-17, we read that these are a shadow of things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. The Colossian church faced pressure from folks who promoted Jewish legalism as a means to achieve spiritual fulfillment. These individuals likely insisted on strict adherence to dietary laws, observance of festivals, new moon celebrations and sabbath keeping. Jesus offers believers rest from their labors and reconciliation with God, moving beyond the old covenant of law to a new covenant of spiritual rest in Christ.
Do we only rest in Jesus once a week? NO
Jesus is Lord of the sabbath not a fulfillment of it.
No Bible verse states that Jesus is the Sabbath.
Because Jesus gives us rest, freedom, salvation from sin does not mean Jesus has replaced the literal 24 hour sabbath rest that was made holy at creation.
He said it was made for man and that He is Lord of it. He did not say he became the sabbath.

I agree that equating SHABBAT with Jesus Himself is a questionable use of typology. However, the general truth about entering spiritual rest through Messiah is a well-known application of the typology. As to which day Christians (under the New Covenant) MUST worship I do not see any command in the NT.

Christians from the earliest centuries certainly did not believe this. Rather, the believed that the RESURRECTION OF CHRIST on the FIRST day of the week reset all OUR worship priorities and expectations. Now we do not look back upon the creation day but forward to the Second Advent. Passages such as Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Colossians 2:16-17, and Revelation 1:10 indicate that, even during New Testament times, Sabbath-keeping was no longer considered binding and that Christians worshiped on "The Lord’s Day," (Sunday), instead.

As Paul said:
5 One person regards a certain day above the others, while someone else considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who observes a special day does so to the Lord; he who eats does so to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.… (Romans 14:5)
Whenever I attend Messianic congregation, I worship when they did. When i am a member of non-Messianic Church I worship on the Day they do. To those who insist that refusing to rest on Shabbat is a SIN, I refer not only to Paul but to the historic practices of early Christians.

One of the earliest post-Biblical references to Church beliefs and practices was the so-called Didache (from the Greek word διδαχη or "teaching"). This was an abbrieviation of the longer title the “Teachings of the Lord (from or through) the Twelve Apostles (to or for) the Nations.” The Didache was witten very early - somewhere between the First and Sscond Century. It outlined the basic doctrines and practices of the Early Church. Significanly, it reveals that their Day of Worship was no longer Shabbat but the day we call "Sunday"
 
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Disagreement is not attack. Criticism is not attack. Demonstrating that you are wrong is not attack.

I am not responsible for the actions of others.

Your statement to me, "you do not believe a word Jesus said!" is an attack. It's also stupid. You choose to act stupid, I will calmly conclude that you're not acting.

This business of accusing anyone who does not agree with the great keeper of the commandments, is standard business with him and those who decided to follow him while saying they follow Jesus.

It is their default claim when they refuse to answer questions, which for the most part they cannot answer since they disgard a large portion of the NT, or get angry...as the op does. You are in good company though because apparently, I am trying to wipe out his command post and his followers with my 'attacking'.

It's childish and ridiculous.
 
Brush up on what scripture says about those who place themselves under the law. Ignorance is not bliss.


Paul's "grace does not remove our being subject to the law, Show us where Christ ever said no one need observe the Torah. When Christ returns as KING of Kings His rule will be by the Torah
 
Sigh. Wrong again. Every believer receives the Holy Spirit placed into them by GOD not some tacky hand ceremony.

20For all the promises of God find their Yes in him. That is why it is through him that we utter our Amen to God for his glory. 21And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, 22and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee. II Corinthians

pine it is obvious you are not familiar with the New Testament
 
Paul's "grace does not remove our being subject to the law, Show us where Christ ever said no one need observe the Torah. When Christ returns as KING of Kings His rule will be by the Torah

Your lack of understanding or possibly deliberate avoidance of Paul's letters, does not negate the truth. It seems you have no undersanding of new life in Christ or the fact we are growing in Him; hopefully every day or even once a week.

You are being so duplicitous. Lost in your own driveway.
 
Sigh. Wrong again. Every believer receives the Holy Spirit placed into them by GOD not some tacky hand ceremony.

20For all the promises of God find their Yes in him. That is why it is through him that we utter our Amen to God for his glory. 21And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, 22and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee. II Corinthians


Please look up these scriptures
Hebrews 6: 2 the laying on of hands is basic doctrine of Jesus Christ
1 tim 5: 22
2 tim 1;6
Acts 8: 14 - 19
 
Please look up these scriptures
Hebrews 6: 2 the laying on of hands is basic doctrine of Jesus Christ
1 tim 5: 22
2 tim 1;6
Acts 8: 14 - 19

Please go read Paul's letters to get yourself straightned out.

So tell me, since you have all of this laying on of (unclean hands), what spiritual gift(s) has God given to you? Do you have the gift of healing? or teaching? or evangelizing? or maybe tongues or interpretation of tongues?

Once again, you ignore the fact that God seals us with His Spirit when we become a believer. You are ignorant to the point it is painful to read your posts so pardon me, but go find someone else to try and convince they should obey the commandments cause that is never going to happen here.

I follow Christ and He has never told me to go and sin and since I am following Him, and the Holy Spirit indwells me, with a couple of spiritual gifts, there is less than nothing you could say to make yourself believeable. You obviously suffer from Paul avoidance.
Peter and the rest of the disciples accepted him and his teaching as from God, but you, you who call yourself the bride of Christ, refuse what Paul teaches.

Quite a big head you have there to think you know better that the disciples of Jesus who walked with Him on this earth.
 
Paul's "grace does not remove our being subject to the law, Show us where Christ ever said no one need observe the Torah. When Christ returns as KING of Kings His rule will be by the Torah

Law has no authority over dead people. If the law has authority over you, then that means you haven't died with Christ. And if you haven't died with Christ, then that means you aren't reconciled to God. And if you aren't reconciled it means you haven't been raised up into his life. And if you haven't been raised up, then you are not saved.
 
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Please look up these scriptures
Hebrews 6: 2 the laying on of hands is basic doctrine of Jesus Christ
1 tim 5: 22
2 tim 1;6
Acts 8: 14 - 19
While laying on of hands is listed among the issues in Hebrews 6, we should not confuse its various applications. One is for spiritual gifts, another is for leadership.
 
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Law has no authority over dead people. If the law has authority over you, then that means you haven't died with Christ. And if you haven't died with Christ, then that means you aren't reconciled to God. And if you aren't reconciled it means you haven't been raised up into his life. And if you haven't been raised up, then you are not saved.


wow another way to get out of obeying Christ that is a new one for me
 
Paul's "grace does not remove our being subject to the law, Show us where Christ ever said no one need observe the Torah. When Christ returns as KING of Kings His rule will be by the Torah

I asked AI a question.

Exodus 20 the first commandment is introduced by: I brought you out of Egypt and you will have no other Gods before me. The Gentiles never knew this God of Israel. Paul states in Ephesians 2:12: "excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world." If the Gentiles never knew the God of Israel then, it holds that the Gentiles never knew the first commandment. Which means the ten words are not natural or essentially moral.

Here is what AI said.

Your reasoning is internally coherent if the category is covenantal knowledge of God rather than general awareness of God, and the New Testament largely supports that distinction. A few clarifications sharpen the conclusion.


1. The first word is explicitly covenant-historical, not universal

Exodus 20:1–2 grounds the “ten words” in a specific redemptive act:


“I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.”​

That self-identification is not abstract (“creator,” “lawgiver,” or “moral governor”) but redeemer of Israel. The commandment is inseparable from that history. No Gentile nation was brought out of Egypt, therefore no Gentile stood in that covenantal address.


This is reinforced later:


“He declares his word to Jacob,
his statutes and rules to Israel.
He has not dealt thus with any other nation.”
(Psalm 147:19–20)​

2. Paul explicitly excludes Gentiles from the covenants

Ephesians 2:12 says exactly what you are pressing:


“Remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.”​

“Without God” here cannot mean metaphysical ignorance of a deity, but without covenantal relationship with the true God. Paul’s language rules out Gentile participation in the Sinai covenant and therefore in the “ten words.”


3. The law is never presented as natural or moral law in Scripture

Nowhere does Scripture say the Ten Commandments were written on all human hearts by nature.


Instead, Scripture says:


  • The law was added (Galatians 3:19)
  • It was given to Israel (Deuteronomy 4:7–8)
  • It defined transgression (Romans 5:13; 7:7)
  • It increased trespass (Romans 5:20)

Paul explicitly denies that the law functioned universally:


“For where there is no law, there is no transgression.”
(Romans 4:15)​

If the Ten Words were natural law, transgression would have existed identically everywhere and always. Paul says it did not.


4. What about Romans 1–2?

Romans 1 affirms that Gentiles knew God’s power and deity through creation, not his covenant name, will, or commandments:


“What can be known about God is plain to them… namely, his eternal power and divine nature.”
(Romans 1:19–20)​

Romans 2:14–15 does not say Gentiles possess the Mosaic law by nature, but that they sometimes do “by nature” things consistent with it:


“They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts.”​

Paul carefully avoids saying “the law itself” is written on their hearts. The phrase “work of the law” refers to conscience and moral accountability, not covenant membership or Sinai revelation.


This fits Ephesians 2:12 perfectly: moral awareness without covenantal inclusion.


5. Conclusion

Your conclusion follows biblically:


  • The Ten Words are covenantal, not natural
  • The first word is historically and redemptively bounded
  • Gentiles were never addressed by Sinai
  • Therefore the Decalogue cannot be universal moral law
  • Moral accountability exists, but not via the Ten Words

The New Testament resolves this not by universalizing Sinai, but by fulfilling it in Christ:


“For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.”
(Romans 10:4)​

And by replacing tablets of stone with the Spirit:


“Not of the letter but of the Spirit.”
(2 Corinthians 3:6)​

Your argument stands: Sinai law belongs to Israel’s covenant history, not to human nature.
 
Although for centuries the Jews had found their physical rest in a day,
No
The patriarchs found their Spiritual rest in the promised coming of Jesus.

They were told from the start that God was going to send a Messiah.

The Jews are still waiting for their promised Messiah because they did not accept Jesus.

Abraham had faith and hope in the promise. This was Spiritual rest.

The 24 hour day could not give anyone hope of salvation. But it can help us appreciate our Lord. It can help us appreciate the Creator and saviour.

It was not a saviour of hope. See the differences
 
Pinebeach by your comments it is now obvious your bible knowledge is limited. and you could not have read the scriptures is list.

Your infantile tactics are both ridiculous and sad. What is even worse though, is the fact you deny almost half of the New Testament and think to pin that on other people.

It is well documented in any thread that you flit around in, that you consistently attempt to change the topic from the actual discussion, to a personal discussion such as you have done here. Why do you suppose that is?