Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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You are correct that we must believe and obey the sound doctrine of Jesus Christ.
Those who believe false doctrine are not of the elect.
Blain, you're wasting your time with Sawdust " Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." 2 Timothy 3:5 Thank you.
Not all who are drawn to Christ believe in Christ ... you know this even as you observe those around you in your own life. More than likely there are people sitting in the pews of the church you attend ... regular attendees ... who do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, even though His death, resurrection, and ascension up into heaven is preached (or should be preached).
It is not a "tough pill" if one understands God's boundless love, grace, mercy toward all mankind.BillyBob said:
Psa 145:8-9
8 The LORD is gracious, and full of compassion; slow to anger, and of great mercy.
9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.
That you prefer to limit the limitless does not limit the limitless ...
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false assumption ... no one who has posted in this thread believes they "should be God instead".
nope ... the offering of the Lord Jesus Christ ... the Lamb slain before the foundation the world ... is more than sufficient to cover all sin of all mankind.BillyBob said:
That some reject this precious gift does not mean the Lord Jesus Christ did not die for their sins.
right back atchya, BillyBobBillyBob said:
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of course God knows ... look at all the prophetic utterances that have occurred ... utterances spoken centuries before ... here's just one example ...
Matthew 2:4-6
4 And when he [Herod] had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,
6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
prophesied by Micah ... centuries before Christ was born ...
Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
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I can "read and understand" more than you allow.
your continued denial does not change the fact that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Savior of the whole world ... the offering/sacrifice of the Lamb exceeds in excellence ... more than sufficient to cover all sins of all descendants of Adam. sad you do not realize the magnitude of the offering. also sad that folks reject God's gracious offering.
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It was offered but not RECEIVED. "But as many as RECEIVED Him, to THEM gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name." John 1:12. You CAN give but it must be received. " For God so love the world that He GAVE His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16 Jesus, without whom there is no salvation, was GIVEN, but some don't RECEIVE.
So do you think God gives a person salvation just coz he asks, or do you think he gives salvation on the bases of knowing a person whole life.
why should anyone obtain sanctification half way through his life, without God knowing his whole life, seems a bit odd that scripture talks about finishing the race, but God can reward halfway through the race.
Has to be a reason why, which option would you say it was from the two options given here
She listens to the word of God, not man's experience.
And consider the irony, when I spoke of the need to use reason you disagreed but now it suits your purpose to use reason? There's a word that describes that, Jesus used it of the Pharisees.
I think you need to practice a little more of what you preach.
Our conversation is going nowhere, therefore I think we end it.
grace and peace.
I don't think that a single verse taken out of the chapter proves they have ceased and as for the others you gave yes they were fulfilled but I don't see how that means those thre gifts have ceased because if they did then it would have been stated in scripture but the verse you gave where Paul said they will cease if you understand the chapter or at least the surrounding verses you will see he was not saying they will cease in the way you think but rather when the perfect has been perfectedThere has been a lot said regarding this in other threads but appreciate we can't read everything, even with good eyesight.
In a nutshell. Paul explained the purpose of tongues in 1Cor.14:21 as the fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy Is.28:11, a sign for unbelieving Jews to accept their Messiah. The Lord is gracious and always gives people time to repent (eg Noah's day, 120 years) but when the Temple was destroyed in 70AD that signified time was up and Israel went out under final discipline.
Paul prophesied tongues would cease along with the gift of knowledge and of prophecy. 1Cor.13:8 The words used for their cessation are two different Greek words. Knowledge and prophecy would fade out but tongues would cease abruptly. This signifies their cessation is under different circumstances. Knowledge and prophecy would fade away as the cannon of scripture was completed and spread over the world. Tongues ceased abruptly when Israel (as a nation) was shown to have rejected their Messiah with the destruction of the Temple.
The three gifts are no longer needed. If you want to know God's will and what will happen in the future? It is all recorded for us in scripture. There is no additional knowledge to be known as it is all recorded in scripture. Israel (as a nation) had it's chance to accept their Messiah, they blew it so no more need for tongues.
Does God still use those three gifts in special circumstances? Maybe, but they are not given as a permanent gift to any believers today.
What did he mean bt the perfect being perfected? well that is a tricky one because some believe it is when all things are said and done and others say it is when his word aka the bible was completed but it is mere speculation and no one really seems to know
God reveals the gospel of Christ ... those who believe receive salvation. Those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness receive the consequence of having rejected:
Romans 1:16-19
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
We who are born again are not yet as we shall be in the future. 2 Cor 4:7 says we hold this treasure in earthen vessels. That "treasure" is the new man ... when we see the Lord face to face, we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is ...Jordon said:
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
At this point in time, we have only a token of God's future promise of fully conforming us to the image of His Son. That is why Scripture describes us as "babes in Christ" when we are first born again ... babes in Christ who feed on the sincere milk of the Word that we may grow thereby:
1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby
Scripture is to the new man what food is to the old man. The new man feeds on the Word and the born again one matures in the things of God. As we mature, the things of this world fall away. They hold less and less sway over us. We grow closer to God and desire His way more than the momentary pleasure of worldly things.
hope/pray this helps ...
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People BECOME elect (with POTENTIAL for privilege) only AFTER they CHOOSE to FREELY enter into the covenant.
Abraham BECAME elect post covenant.
Israel BECAME elect post covenant.
The Church BECOMES elect AFTER they declare "I DO" to the covenant.
And BTW, Jacob was "chosen" (the typical and classic "chosen son" scenario) BECAUSE he revered and esteemed the COVENANT and Esau DESPISED it.
Get a grip on reality you are living in your own biblically illiterate fantasy world. And speaking preposterous error 24/7 around here.