Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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rogerg said:
You need to look at John 17:2 to understand who the "all" consist of. They ain't everyone but those GIVEN to Christ by God.
Those are the elect.

[Jhn 17:2 KJV] 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
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And? how does that make it any less true? he has given im a people who would believe in him just as no one can come to him unless the father draws them so to does he give him those who believe in his name and also it was the jews he was confronting at the time.
 
brightfame52 said:
Both those verses pertain to the elect
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Yes they do which would be everyone who believes as the scriptures say
  • John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
  • Acts 2:21: "And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
  • Romans 10:13: "For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
  • Isaiah 45:22: "Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other."
  • Titus 2:11: "For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people."
  • 1 Timothy 2:4: "Who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth."
  • Romans 10:14: "For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by openly declaring your faith that you are saved."
  • Romans 10:15: "And how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him? And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them?"
 
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rogerg said:
Typical go-to verse selections for those free will types who won't look further into what they are actually saying.
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Typical that you reject what the scriptures say, go ahead then tell us what are they actually saying then?
 
rogerg said:
Typical go-to verse selections for those free will types who won't look further into what they are actually saying.
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You have zero accurately Biblical grasp of practically any passages you post pertaining to your Reformed dogma.

Like 100% total failure rate. Its amazing to behold and oh so true.
 
Blain said:
Do you know whatr the chapter of this verse entials? it explains in detail what he is talking about and he isn't talking about what your implying this is why certain verses cannot be cherry picked from chapters. He was speaking of the Jews not the elect in Christ
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Do not suffer to be hazed by the super-determinists unbiblical spoofing and hoaxing.

The predominant theme of Romans 9 is salvation by grace thru FAITH. Not of works.
Predicated by the fact that God's ELECT are those that RECEIVE Him (and prove their faith by obedience) not REJECT Him and are antagonistic to His plan of salvation.

The "children of the promise" are those who CLING TO THE COVENANT PROMISES in FAITH and obedience.

Rom 9:8
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Rom 9:30
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Rom 9:31
But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

Rom 9:32
Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

*********************************************************************

There is much to be said about Romans 9, and NONE of it has ANYTHING to do with Calvinistic super-deterministic dogma.
 
Cameron143 said:
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1KVDd9DFJJ/
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Okey is an ardent proponent of the Reformed Faith.
We view the Reformed or Calvinistic confessions such as The Westminster Confession of Faith, the 1646 London Baptist Confession of Faith, the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, and The Philadelphia Confession of Faith as essentially accurate summaries of the Bible's teachings while still subordinate to Scripture which is our ultimate authority.
https://www.pinedrivereformedchurch.com/about-us

Been there, done that ... EXIT stage right, left and center!!
 
HeIsHere said:
Okey is an ardent proponent of the Reformed Faith.
We view the Reformed or Calvinistic confessions such as The Westminster Confession of Faith, the 1646 London Baptist Confession of Faith, the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, and The Philadelphia Confession of Faith as essentially accurate summaries of the Bible's teachings while still subordinate to Scripture which is our ultimate authority.
https://www.pinedrivereformedchurch.com/about-us

Been there, done that ... EXIT stage right, left and center!!
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Such a closed mind. It's not a reformed or Armenian message. It's simply truth.
 
Blain said:
Typical that you reject what the scriptures say, go ahead then tell us what are they actually saying then?
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From where im standing watching both sides from a bystander m, roger hasn't rejected any scripture,

He has provided his understanding, what your providing here is a dismissal of that
 
Blain said:
Yes they do which would be everyone who believes as the scriptures say
  • John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
  • Acts 2:21: "And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
  • Romans 10:13: "For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
  • Isaiah 45:22: "Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other."
  • Titus 2:11: "For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people."
  • 1 Timothy 2:4: "Who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth."
  • Romans 10:14: "For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by openly declaring your faith that you are saved."
  • Romans 10:15: "And how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him? And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them?"
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All those verse apply only to the elect
 
Blain said:
Do you know whatr the chapter of this verse entials? it explains in detail what he is talking about and he isn't talking about what your implying this is why certain verses cannot be cherry picked from chapters. He was speaking of the Jews not the elect in Christ
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You are completely and demonstrably wrong. That is why I included the following verse. By "Gentiles" below, your point is proven WRONG.

[Rom 9:24 KJV] 24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
 
brightfame52 said:
The message of Salvation isnt an offer, its a preached declaration of the Person and Work of Jesus Christ, who He is, and His work that He has done and its glorious accomplishments for the elect. The requirements for salvation have been fulfilled by Christ.
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I think that I finally see what you are saying. When we are told that if you trust/believe you will be saved, it is not an offer, but a statement of what must take place. Is this what you are saying?
 
cv5 said:
Do not suffer to be hazed by the super-determinists unbiblical spoofing and hoaxing.

The predominant theme of Romans 9 is salvation by grace thru FAITH. Not of works.
Predicated by the fact that God's ELECT are those that RECEIVE Him (and prove their faith by obedience) not REJECT Him and are antagonistic to His plan of salvation.

The "children of the promise" are those who CLING TO THE COVENANT PROMISES in FAITH and obedience.

Rom 9:8
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Rom 9:30
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Rom 9:31
But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

Rom 9:32
Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

*********************************************************************

There is much to be said about Romans 9, and NONE of it has ANYTHING to do with Calvinistic super-deterministic dogma.
Click to expand...
The "children of the promise" are those who CLING TO THE COVENANT PROMISES in FAITH and obedience.

Take note @Blain. There are always those who CHOOSE to remain faithful. It is those who INHERIT the promises fulfilled.

For example:
Luk 1:5
There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
Luk 1:6
And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless

Luk 2:25
And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.

Luk 2:36
And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;
Luk 2:37
And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.
 
Blain said:
Typical that you reject what the scriptures say, go ahead then tell us what are they actually saying then?
Click to expand...

Okay.

Already explained.
1 Timothy 2:4: "Who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth

Re 2 Pet 3:9 Read the salutation of the book. In it, Peter addressed only the saints not everyone. The " you" of 3:9 therefore, are the saints. Observe:

[2Pe 1:1-4 KJV]
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

2 Peter 3:9: "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead, he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance".

Re Isaiah 45:22 is under the Old Covenant - choices and works were required from those under it. Not so with the New Covenant - under it, God does it all
Re Eph 2:4-5, Eph 2 is addressing the saints - those already saved:

[Eph 2:1, 5 KJV]
1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins; ...
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Got it?
 
Blain said:
Typical that you reject what the scriptures say, go ahead then tell us what are they actually saying then?
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@Blain , why was Jacob elected and Esau rejected?

This is why:
Esau "let go". Jacob "held on" and WOULD NOT LET GO.
Thus he gained God's approval, becoming the "elect" (chosen) son though whom God's plan of salvation might be wrought.

Heb 12:16
Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

Gen 32:26
And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.

Gen 32:27
And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.

Gen 32:28
And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
 
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