Now you hit upon my second main question: Do angels have a choice?
I guess the demonic angels chose to fall from grace, but are the trumpet blowers robotic?
How do angels jibe with the Holy Spirit?
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Now you hit upon my second main question: Do angels have a choice?
I guess the demonic angels chose to fall from grace, but are the trumpet blowers robotic?
I would probably rethink your question to be honest, The angels where created for a purpose, and the purpose was to be angels.
So if we take that into consideration and amuse ourselves, you could say humans where created to be angels to, because apparently we get born of spirit. Tho I guess when it comes to free will and choice, the argument will be, no the only thing we have in common with the angels is, we can also go living it up in sodom if we want to
I would probably rethink your question to be honest, The angels where created for a purpose, and the purpose was to be angels.
So if we take that into consideration and amuse ourselves, you could say humans where created to be angels to, because apparently we get born of spirit. Tho I guess when it comes to free will and choice, the argument will be, no the only thing we have in common with the angels is, we can also go living it up in sodom if we want to
Well, I for one will be interested to learn what we have in common with the angels besides celibacy in heaven.
In the meantime, I will present more of my understanding of Revelation soon.
Very amusing.No not unless God provides the trumpets and chords, but I believe it has to be an A minor, to enable the strings to be pulled the right way.
I don't think you are if you was i would of got s a funny emoji
It's so amazing what the truth can tell
In Rev. 9:13-21 the sixth angel blew his trumpet and a voice coming from the altar said to release the armies of the four angels beyond the Euphrates River, who were bound to kill a third of humanity. Their horses were described as having heads of lions with fire coming out of their mouths and with tails like snakes. The remaining two-thirds of mankind did not repent of worshipping demons and idols, nor of their murders and sexual immorality.
The area beyond the Euphrates was considered north of Israel in several OT passages referring to the Assyrians, Babylonians and Persians (Isa. 14:31, Jer. 6:1&22, 10:22, 13:20, etc.; Ezek. 26:7, 38:6&15, 39:2). Thus, God may use pagan people to accomplish His purpose (cf. 1Kg. 22:19-23, Job 1:12, Isa. 10:5-12). The large number of soldiers may reflect Psalm 68:17, and the description of the horses is akin to Job's description of leviathan in Job 41:18-21 (cf. Deut. 28:49-67). Chilton comments (p. 252-258) that by rejecting Jesus Christ the Jews became idolaters and worshipers of Caesar (cf. John 8:42-44) and that apostate or sinful Jerusalem was a type of Babylon. Also, he notes that Josephus found fulfillment of God's wrath in the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in A.D. 66-70.
In Rev. 10:1-11 another angel described as robed in clouds with a face like the sun (cf. Rev. 1:13&16, Ezek. 1:27-28), with legs like pillars of fire (cf. Exo. 13:21, 14:24, Num. 12:5, Deut. 31:15) and holding a little scroll came down from heaven and stood with one foot on the sea (cf. Isa. 17:12, Jer. 6:22-23) and the other on the land (cf. Psa. 65:5-7). He shouted like a lion's roar (cf. Isa. 5:29), whereupon seven thunders spoke (cf. Psa. 29:3-4), but a voice from heaven told John not to write what they said (cf. Rev. 22:10). Chilton interprets this proscription as teaching there are things which will not be revealed until they occur (p. 262-263).
Then the angel swore by God (cf. Matt. 5:34-37) that there would be no more delay in the accomplishment of the mystery of God's will (cf. Eph. 3:5-6, Col. 1:26), and the voice from heaven told John to take the little scroll from the angel, who told him to eat it, which John did. It tasted sweet as honey but made his stomach turn sour (cf. Ezek. 2:8-3:3). Then John was told that he "must prophesy again about many peoples, nations, languages and kings" (cf. Matt. 28:19-20). Chilton understands this passage as referring to the impending destruction of Jerusalem and the implementation of the New Covenant that includes the Gentiles or the entire world (p. 267-268).
Then the angel swore by God (cf. Matt. 5:34-37) that there would be no more delay in the accomplishment of the mystery of God's will (cf. Eph. 3:5-6, Col. 1:26), and the voice from heaven told John to take the little scroll from the angel, who told him to eat it, which John did. It tasted sweet as honey but made his stomach turn sour (cf. Ezek. 2:8-3:3). Then John was told that he "must prophesy again about many peoples, nations, languages and kings" (cf. Matt. 28:19-20). Chilton understands this passage as referring to the impending destruction of Jerusalem and the implementation of the New Covenant that includes the Gentiles or the entire world (p. 267-268).
In Rev. 11:1-14 John was given a measuring rod and told to measure the temple of God (cf. Ezek. 40-43, Zech. 2, Heb. 9) except for the outer court of the Gentiles, who will trample the holy city for 42 months (1,260 days/3.5 years, cf. Dan. 7:25, Jam. 5:17, Luke 13:24-29). Chilton noted a chiastic arrangement of the time periods, that the Gospel of Matthew organized Christ's ancestors into groups of 42, and that the envisioned destruction of Jerusalem occurred in A.D. 70 (p.274-275).
The voice also said that two witnesses clothed in sackcloth (indicating mourning, cf. 2Kings 1:8, Isa. 20:2, Jonah 3:6, Matt. 3:4). and identified with the two olive trees (oil) and two lampstands (light from the burning oil) before the Lord would prophesy for 1,260 days (cf. Zech. 4). Anyone who tried to harm them was killed by fire from their mouths (cf. Moses in Num. 16:35 and Elijah in 2Kings 1:9-12), and it would not rain during the days of their prophesying (cf. the drought caused by Elijah in 1Kings 17, Luke 4:25, Jam. 5:17). They would have power to turn water into blood and strike the earth with plagues if they desired (cf. Moses in Exo. 7-13). Moses and Elijah represent the testimony of the Law and Prophets (cf. Mal. 4:4-5).
After their testimony, the beast from the Abyss (cf. Rev. 13) will attack and kill them, leaving their bodies lying in the street of the city (metaphorically, cf. Matt. 23:35, Acts 7:51-52) where their Lord was crucified for three and a half days as people from every nation will celebrate their deaths (cf. Psa. 79:1-3). The description of Jerusalem as wicked Sodom is clear (cf. Matt. 11:23-24), but the reference to Egypt is vague. After the three and a half days, God resurrected them and a voice from heaven called them up into heaven (cf. Rev. 4:1) as their enemies looked on and an earthquake killed 7,000 people in the city, which was ten percent (the Lord's tithe, cf. 1Kings 19:18). This was the end of the second woe (cf. Rev. 9:12).
The voice also said that two witnesses clothed in sackcloth (indicating mourning, cf. 2Kings 1:8, Isa. 20:2, Jonah 3:6, Matt. 3:4). and identified with the two olive trees (oil) and two lampstands (light from the burning oil) before the Lord would prophesy for 1,260 days (cf. Zech. 4). Anyone who tried to harm them was killed by fire from their mouths (cf. Moses in Num. 16:35 and Elijah in 2Kings 1:9-12), and it would not rain during the days of their prophesying (cf. the drought caused by Elijah in 1Kings 17, Luke 4:25, Jam. 5:17). They would have power to turn water into blood and strike the earth with plagues if they desired (cf. Moses in Exo. 7-13). Moses and Elijah represent the testimony of the Law and Prophets (cf. Mal. 4:4-5).
After their testimony, the beast from the Abyss (cf. Rev. 13) will attack and kill them, leaving their bodies lying in the street of the city (metaphorically, cf. Matt. 23:35, Acts 7:51-52) where their Lord was crucified for three and a half days as people from every nation will celebrate their deaths (cf. Psa. 79:1-3). The description of Jerusalem as wicked Sodom is clear (cf. Matt. 11:23-24), but the reference to Egypt is vague. After the three and a half days, God resurrected them and a voice from heaven called them up into heaven (cf. Rev. 4:1) as their enemies looked on and an earthquake killed 7,000 people in the city, which was ten percent (the Lord's tithe, cf. 1Kings 19:18). This was the end of the second woe (cf. Rev. 9:12).
well the answer is then angels jibe very well with the holy spirit
Possibly; I am withholding judgment until the end
And so our study of Revelation continues:
In Rev. 11:15-19 the seventh angel sounded his trumpet and voices from heaven announced that "the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ", who would reign forever.
In Matthew 7:10 Jesus taught his disciples to pray for God's kingdom to come, and this verse indicates the completion of its arrival, which is acknowledged by the 24 elders seated on thrones before God, who fell on their faces and thanked the Lord God Almighty that the time has come for the judgment foretold by Jesus in Matt. 23:35-36,
Judgment includes rewarding those who reverence God's name (servants/prophets/saints) with heaven, and destroying in hell those who destroy the earth (per John 17:12, Rom. 9:22, Gal. 6:8, Phil. 3:19, 2Thes. 1:9, 2Pet. 3:7 & Rev. 20:13-14). Evil people corrupted God's good creation (Gen. 1:31, 6:5-7, 9:11, 2Pet. 3:7, Rev. 16:5-6, 18:4-8, 20:10-15).
At that moment heaven was opened and the ark of the covenant was revealed amid flashes of lightning accompanied by an earthquake and hailstorm. The ark and the physical phenomena signify the ultimate revelation of God's Word, especially His promise of salvation.
Well those who are rewarded are those who where saved by the will of God, and those who had reverence for God did so because they where made to believe and they did. The others where made to believe and they never, those who do believe are destined to become like the angles in spirit eternal and living with God who will always jibe very well with God.Possibly; I am withholding judgment until the end
And so our study of Revelation continues:
In Rev. 11:15-19 the seventh angel sounded his trumpet and voices from heaven announced that "the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ", who would reign forever.
In Matthew 7:10 Jesus taught his disciples to pray for God's kingdom to come, and this verse indicates the completion of its arrival, which is acknowledged by the 24 elders seated on thrones before God, who fell on their faces and thanked the Lord God Almighty that the time has come for the judgment foretold by Jesus in Matt. 23:35-36,
Judgment includes rewarding those who reverence God's name (servants/prophets/saints) with heaven, and destroying in hell those who destroy the earth (per John 17:12, Rom. 9:22, Gal. 6:8, Phil. 3:19, 2Thes. 1:9, 2Pet. 3:7 & Rev. 20:13-14). Evil people corrupted God's good creation (Gen. 1:31, 6:5-7, 9:11, 2Pet. 3:7, Rev. 16:5-6, 18:4-8, 20:10-15).
At that moment heaven was opened and the ark of the covenant was revealed amid flashes of lightning accompanied by an earthquake and hailstorm. The ark and the physical phenomena signify the ultimate revelation of God's Word, especially His promise of salvation.
I do believe. That at present we do have angels living with God, so I can't see any probably about it.
In Rev. 12:1-17 a sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, standing on the moon and wearing a crown of 12 stars,
who was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was giving birth. Then another sign appeared beside her: a huge red dragon with
seven heads, ten horns and wearing seven crowns, whose tail swept a third of the stars to the earth. He stood in front of the woman, ready to eat her baby as soon as it was born, but when she gave birth to her son who will rule all nations with an iron scepter, he was snatched up to God's throne, and the woman fled into the desert where God would take care of her for 1,260 days.
Then there was war in heaven between the archangel Michael with his angels and the dragon with his angels, who lost and were hurled to earth, after which a voice in heaven proclaimed salvation and the kingdom of God and Christ, whose brothers overcame the dragon called the devil or Satan by means of the Lamb's blood and their own testimony of willingness to suffer martyrdom. The voice commanded joy in heaven but woe to the earth where the devil will be for a short time.
The dragon sought to pursue the woman, but she escaped to the safe place prepared for her. The dragon spewed a torrent of water out of his mouth, but the earth opened up and swallowed it, so the enraged dragon went off to make war against the rest of her offspring, those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
In seeking to identify the woman, perhaps the first thing to notice is that she is NOT the prostitute who rode the dragon mentioned in Rev. 17:1-7, and the second thing is that her other offspring apparently include Messianic Jews and Gentile Christians. Perhaps the references to the sun, moon and stars signifies God's salvation is for one universe. Chilton thinks the 12 stars alludes to the Zodiac sign of Virgo (which is ascendant during the time of Rosh Hashanah, the Day of Trumpets) and that other factors pinpoint the birth of Jesus as occurring on September 11 in the year 3 B.C. (p.300-301). Her son surely refers to Jesus, the Lamb of God, and thus her other offspring must be the disciples of Jesus, his universal church and one spiritual body (cf. Eph. 4:4-6). The iron scepter echoes Rev. 2:27 and must be the iron rod mentioned in Psa. 2:9. The reference to the pain of childbirth reminds the reader of what Paul said in Rom. 8:22.
The dragon is specifically identified as Satan, who bedeviled humanity, seeking to lead the whole world astray (cf. Dan. 7:3-7, Isa. 27:1). Chilton thinks St. John associates the dragon with the Zodiac sign of Scorpio, who has a third of the other 12 signs following him or at his tail, referencing the fall of Satan in 2Pet. 2:4 and Jude 6 (p.306). The destruction of "a third" has been mentioned in Rev. 8:7-12, 9:15 &18. Perhaps this signifies the salvation of the two thirds. The period of "a time, times and half a time" or 1,260 days/42 months has also been mentioned (Rev. 11:2-3). The war with evil was won at the time of Christ's crucifixion for sins, although it is followed by a period of denouement during the age of the church, which is relatively brief per 2Pet. 3:8-9.
who was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was giving birth. Then another sign appeared beside her: a huge red dragon with
seven heads, ten horns and wearing seven crowns, whose tail swept a third of the stars to the earth. He stood in front of the woman, ready to eat her baby as soon as it was born, but when she gave birth to her son who will rule all nations with an iron scepter, he was snatched up to God's throne, and the woman fled into the desert where God would take care of her for 1,260 days.
Then there was war in heaven between the archangel Michael with his angels and the dragon with his angels, who lost and were hurled to earth, after which a voice in heaven proclaimed salvation and the kingdom of God and Christ, whose brothers overcame the dragon called the devil or Satan by means of the Lamb's blood and their own testimony of willingness to suffer martyrdom. The voice commanded joy in heaven but woe to the earth where the devil will be for a short time.
The dragon sought to pursue the woman, but she escaped to the safe place prepared for her. The dragon spewed a torrent of water out of his mouth, but the earth opened up and swallowed it, so the enraged dragon went off to make war against the rest of her offspring, those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
In seeking to identify the woman, perhaps the first thing to notice is that she is NOT the prostitute who rode the dragon mentioned in Rev. 17:1-7, and the second thing is that her other offspring apparently include Messianic Jews and Gentile Christians. Perhaps the references to the sun, moon and stars signifies God's salvation is for one universe. Chilton thinks the 12 stars alludes to the Zodiac sign of Virgo (which is ascendant during the time of Rosh Hashanah, the Day of Trumpets) and that other factors pinpoint the birth of Jesus as occurring on September 11 in the year 3 B.C. (p.300-301). Her son surely refers to Jesus, the Lamb of God, and thus her other offspring must be the disciples of Jesus, his universal church and one spiritual body (cf. Eph. 4:4-6). The iron scepter echoes Rev. 2:27 and must be the iron rod mentioned in Psa. 2:9. The reference to the pain of childbirth reminds the reader of what Paul said in Rom. 8:22.
The dragon is specifically identified as Satan, who bedeviled humanity, seeking to lead the whole world astray (cf. Dan. 7:3-7, Isa. 27:1). Chilton thinks St. John associates the dragon with the Zodiac sign of Scorpio, who has a third of the other 12 signs following him or at his tail, referencing the fall of Satan in 2Pet. 2:4 and Jude 6 (p.306). The destruction of "a third" has been mentioned in Rev. 8:7-12, 9:15 &18. Perhaps this signifies the salvation of the two thirds. The period of "a time, times and half a time" or 1,260 days/42 months has also been mentioned (Rev. 11:2-3). The war with evil was won at the time of Christ's crucifixion for sins, although it is followed by a period of denouement during the age of the church, which is relatively brief per 2Pet. 3:8-9.
In Rev. 13:1-10 John says the dragon was by the sea and a beast came out of the sea that had ten horns with crowns and seven heads (cf. Rev. 12:3) with a blasphemous name on each. (This will be explained in Rev. 17:7-18.) One of the heads had what seemed to be a fatal wound that had been healed (cf. Gen. 3:15). The beast resembled a leopard but had feet like a bear and a mouth like a lion (cf. Dan. 7:1-7). The dragon gave the beast his power and throne, and the whole world worshipped the dragon and the beast, asking "Who can defeat the beast?"
The beast was allowed to blaspheme God and exercise authority for 42 months (Rev. 11:2-9, 12:6&14), defeating the saints and all inhabitants of earth whose names were not written in the Lamb's book of life from the creation of the world. The book of life was introduced in Rev. 3:5 and will be mentioned again in Rev. 17:8, 20:12&15, 21:27 and 22:19. This defeat and falling away initially occurred during the reign or Emperor Nero, who persecuted Christians almost to extinction (cf. 1Tim. 4:1, 6:20-21, 2Tim. 3:1&12, 4:17, 1John 2:18-19), but it may also have a final fulfillment before the end of history.
John concluded this passage by saying, "He who has an ear, let him hear", a phrase spoken many times by Jesus (Matt. 11:15, Mark 4:9, Luke 14:35). What John wanted people to hear here is this: "Anyone bound for captivity will go into captivity, and anyone bound to be slain will be killed. This calls for faithful endurance [perseverance] by the saints."
The beast was allowed to blaspheme God and exercise authority for 42 months (Rev. 11:2-9, 12:6&14), defeating the saints and all inhabitants of earth whose names were not written in the Lamb's book of life from the creation of the world. The book of life was introduced in Rev. 3:5 and will be mentioned again in Rev. 17:8, 20:12&15, 21:27 and 22:19. This defeat and falling away initially occurred during the reign or Emperor Nero, who persecuted Christians almost to extinction (cf. 1Tim. 4:1, 6:20-21, 2Tim. 3:1&12, 4:17, 1John 2:18-19), but it may also have a final fulfillment before the end of history.
John concluded this passage by saying, "He who has an ear, let him hear", a phrase spoken many times by Jesus (Matt. 11:15, Mark 4:9, Luke 14:35). What John wanted people to hear here is this: "Anyone bound for captivity will go into captivity, and anyone bound to be slain will be killed. This calls for faithful endurance [perseverance] by the saints."
I have difficulty jibing the role of angels with the role of the Holy Spirit, so I would like to explore that question
starting from Hebrews 1:14, "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?"
Does this teaching not conflict with the ministry of the Holy Spirit described in the Gospel of John as our advocate (14:16-17),
the testifier about Jesus (15:26) and guide (16:12-15)?
to answer your thread more clearly. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the living God which means he is GOD Gen 1:2, 2cor 3:3 Heb 9:14
all speak to the Holy Spirit as God. That should be enough to speak on the great contrast between angels (created being ) and The Spirit of God who was present at creation and seen as GOD in scripture.
The Gospel of John chapter 14 , 15, and 16 are all in context to the work of the Holy Spirit in the believer known as the Comforter or in the Greek the "Parakletos" "one who comes along side. "
what conflict could there possibly be? God has many titles based on HIS Divine Nature. The Holy Spirit also has attributes that are distinct to the Nature of GOD.
God and and HIS Spirit are all Knowing Rom 8:27 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
God is all Present therefore so is the Holy Spirit.
Nothing in John 14 -16 chapters have any conflict. They describe the work of the holy Spirit when Jesus is taken up.
