How do angels jibe with the Holy Spirit?
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The angel where created for one purpose is my best answer to be servants, meaning they where created to follow Gods commands and be servants for him, by his creation his will, by his way, Does that mean Angels had moral free will to ? Well it doesn't rule it out, as How could they decide to rebel if they never had any inner freedom to say no.
At that point of rebellion do they stop being spirit is your question ?
Nope but they do become possessed with sin, impure spirit,
No longer clean spirits, but because there created with a different purpose to us there held more accountable and expelled forever.
and they where expelled for ever.
I don't think any angels can be saved, they where held more a accountabke than us.
It's no joke ignoring Gods will
the answer to 1. is a play on words God made angels for his will and pleasure. "The Angel of the Lord " seen in the Old Testament is more than anglos which is messenger. there are different works angels do and names they have like Cherubim's, ones who cry Holy holy holy Lord God Almighty. There are angels who watch, protect, and present to the throne of GOD.
2. No. angels ministering do not conflict with the work of the Holy Spirit.
3. do angels jibe with the Holy Spirit? not sure what that is meaning. do angels have salvation? no they obey or don't . Christ atone for the sins of man kind. God Spirit is in , with and upon the Believer. As God choose Himself to be with man and not angels he created.
Re "you mentioned you had a website, where by you allow atheists to ask you questions": I don't mention that any more because it was deemed to be disallowed by CC rules.
Re "So I'm just asking are you asking questions here based on what they've asked or are they all your own questions?": Most are mine,
because most atheists are not interested in angelology.
I see we agree that angels must have MFW and that the fallen angels cannot be saved. I think that because the just consequence
for rejecting GW was consignment to hell, God planned a better way to create souls who could be redeemed from sin via Christ's atonement: humanity.
Also, my belief is that finite sinners suffer finite consequences for their sins in hell, after which their spirits/souls are destroyed.
Re "ignoring GW is no joke": You got that right, brother!
Thanks for your answers, CS, which I understand as follows, with my comments in brackets:
1. "The Angel of the Lord" in the OT refers to God. There are other "angels" who watch, protect, and present to the throne of GOD.
[I agree that the most obvious meaning of "The Angel of the Lord" (Gen. 22:11) is to God Himself, but in the NT "the" is "an", which
indicates it is NOT God Himself but rather someone like Gabriel (Luke 1:19). In Matt. 1:20 & 24 "an" IS "the", and in Gal. 4:14 Paul writes as though "an" angel of God were "the" Christ Jesus himself.]
2. No. angels ministering do not conflict with the work of the Holy Spirit, the HS does not watch, protect and present.
[Matt. 4:11 mentions that angels "attended" Jesus after he was tempted by the devil, whatever that means, but Matt. 18:10
and Acts 12:15 mentions angels as though they are avatars of believers. Heb. 1:14 says angels are spirits sent to serve those
who have the Holy Spirit. In John 14-16 the HS is described as teaching GW to believers, whereas in Heb. 2:1-4 it is angels
who are described as conveying GW and the HS is described as the distributor of gifts. Such passages make it difficult
for me to develop a doctrine of angelology; I don't know about you.]
3. Not sure whether angels jibe with the HS, but angels do not have salvation; they obey or don't. Christ only atoned
for the sins of mankind. God's Spirit is only in, with and upon the Believer. God did not choose Himself to be with angels.
[I am not sure whether they jibe either, but do you believe they are programmed to obey or not obey? I agree that the Bible
does not teach a POS for angels.]
Over...
you don't have to mention your website to simply ask if your asking questions for yourself or someone else.
If you throw in questions of your own mixed in with questions from atheists, you should make it clear you are , so we don't think what the hec is this about.
The rule you broke was you broke was promoting your website,
The reason you were just given a ticking of was, because of your good intension to reach out to atheists.
But still im a having a hard time wondering, if theses questions from Unbelievers are making you unsure about things to much yourself.
I address the questions asked by atheists in the Apologetics thread.
The questions asked here are those begged by references to angels in Scripture.
As I indicated, I no longer even mention uno what just to be safe.
Apparently you do NOT get my point that having/asking questions of God does NOT indicate unbelief,
but rather NOT asking God for answers does that, which A&E exemplified.
I have no idea what you are talking about. You were communicating fine through #202,
but then you went off the rails, so happy trails unless you reply to #204 in a way that moves the discussion forward.
back with the same old same old, ok well don't answer then,
It's really is remarkable how you hold people to account with other peoples views, and not even disclose they are your own questions.
Leading people into unnecessary obligation, may be a happy trail to you, but not me.
If I knew I was addressing you, it would make it better,
But you just playing this game, that we should be held account to answer the hidden questions, to help some imaginary idea out
In Rev. 13:11-18 John saw another beast coming out of the earth that looked like a lamb with two horns and spoke like a dragon (cf. Rev. 13:1, 16:13, 19:20), which made Earthians worship the first beast whose wounds had been healed (Rev. 13:3) by deceiving them with miracles such as causing fire to fall from heaven (cf. 2Kings 1:10). This deception was foretold by Jesus (in Matt. 24:5&11, cf. Matt. 7:15, John 8:42-44, Deut. 13:1-5.) Chilton thinks the first beast represents Rome and the second is Pharisaic/Talmudic Judaism (p. 336-337, cf. Acts 4:25-27).
This beast ordered Earthians to set up an image of the first beast (cf. Dan. 3:1-7, Rom. 2:22), and he was given power to make the image speak (cf. Psa. 135:15-16) and command that all who refused to worship him be killed. At this juncture it is important to realize that all false ideologies are dictatorial and murderous, whereas God wants to persuade sinners to convert/repent and freely embrace the Christ and the Gospel (Acts 18:4, 2Cor. 5:11).
The second beast also forced all Earthians to receive a mark on the right hand or forehead, without which no one could conduct business. The mark was the name of the beast or the number of his name, 666, which represents humanity/Earthians (cf. 1Kings 10:14). Numerous places in Scripture associate the number six with humanity (Gen. 1:24-31, Exo. 20:8-11, 21:2, Num. 35:9-15, Dan. 3:1) and the number seven with divinity. We can see that 666 is 6 x 10 x 10 (and what Chilton notes on p. 347-349 is the "triangular" of the square of 6 that contains 12 triangles representing 12 months or 1,260 days), which signifies the ultimate Antichrist.
In Rev. 14:1-13 John saw the Lamb on Mount Zion (cf. Psa. 2:6-7, Matt. 21:5, John 12:15, Rom. 9:33, 11:26, Heb. 12:22, 1Pet. 2:6) with 144,000 disciples (Israelites per Rev. 7:4-8, cf. Rom. 11:5), and he heard a loud sound from heaven like that of harpists (Rev. 5:8), who sang a new song (Rev. 5:8-9, Psa. 98:5, 96:1, 40:3, 149:1) before the throne that only the redeemed could learn. John described the redeemed as those who were sexually pure or were not adulterers (Rev. 14:8, 2:14&20-22), the firstfruits (Rom. 8:23, 1Cor. 15:23) of those who followed the Lamb (Matt. 9:9, 10:38, 16:24) and as those who never lied (Zeph. 3:12-13, cf. Rom. 1:22-25, Eph. 4:24-27).
Then John saw an angel flying to every nation on earth with the eternal gospel (Mark 1:14-15, Matt. 24:14, Rom. 10:15-18) and urging people to glorify God the Creator at this hour of final judgment (Heb. 9:26-28). A second angel announced the fall of Babylon the Great, which had made all nations mad with the wine of adultery. It is not clear whether this refers to Jerusalem or to Rome or is symbolic of worldwide anti-Christian atheism.
A third angel warned that anyone who worshipped the beast and received his mark (Rev. 13:8&16) would drink the wine of God's wrath (Rev. 6:16, 19:15, Isa. 51:17, Jer. 25:15, Ezek. 20:18, Zeph. 1:15, Rom. 1:18) and be tormented forever with no rest (Matt. 11:28-30, 25:46). Enduring persecution calls for persevering faith in Jesus and obeying God's commandments (Matt. 10:22, 24:45-51, Jam. 5:7-9). Then John was told to write: Blessed are those who die in the Lord, for they will rest from their labor and reap reward for their deeds (cf. Matt. 5:10-12, Rom. 2:5-13, Heb. 4:9-11).
Then John saw an angel flying to every nation on earth with the eternal gospel (Mark 1:14-15, Matt. 24:14, Rom. 10:15-18) and urging people to glorify God the Creator at this hour of final judgment (Heb. 9:26-28). A second angel announced the fall of Babylon the Great, which had made all nations mad with the wine of adultery. It is not clear whether this refers to Jerusalem or to Rome or is symbolic of worldwide anti-Christian atheism.
A third angel warned that anyone who worshipped the beast and received his mark (Rev. 13:8&16) would drink the wine of God's wrath (Rev. 6:16, 19:15, Isa. 51:17, Jer. 25:15, Ezek. 20:18, Zeph. 1:15, Rom. 1:18) and be tormented forever with no rest (Matt. 11:28-30, 25:46). Enduring persecution calls for persevering faith in Jesus and obeying God's commandments (Matt. 10:22, 24:45-51, Jam. 5:7-9). Then John was told to write: Blessed are those who die in the Lord, for they will rest from their labor and reap reward for their deeds (cf. Matt. 5:10-12, Rom. 2:5-13, Heb. 4:9-11).
In Rev. 14:14-20 John saw the one like a son of man seated on a white cloud (Dan. 7:13, cf. Zeph. 1:15, Acts 1:9&11, Luke 21:27) holding a sickle (used to harvest wheat and mentioned seven times in this passage). Then three more angels appeared one at a time.
The fourth angel came out of the temple and said to reap, for the time is ripe, so the son of man swung his sickle and harvested the earth (mentioned six times in this passage), as Jesus portrayed via the Parable of the Weeds (Matt. 13:24-30, cf. Matt. 24:40-41).
A fifth angel appeared, also holding a sharp sickle, but he was told by yet another angel who was in charge of the altar fire to gather the grapes (Joel 3:13, cf. Isa. 5:1-7), which he did, throwing them into the winepress of God's wrath that was outside the city (in the Valley of Jehoshaphat per Joel 3:12?), where they were trampled, causing blood to flow out of the press rising as high as horses bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia, which is about the length of Israel (per Chilton, p. 376). Thus, the Jordan River would run red as it flowed into the Dead Sea, which is reminiscent of the death of Pharaoh's soldiers in the Red Sea (cf. Exo. 14:23, 15:19-21), but this time Israel would not be spared.
The fourth angel came out of the temple and said to reap, for the time is ripe, so the son of man swung his sickle and harvested the earth (mentioned six times in this passage), as Jesus portrayed via the Parable of the Weeds (Matt. 13:24-30, cf. Matt. 24:40-41).
A fifth angel appeared, also holding a sharp sickle, but he was told by yet another angel who was in charge of the altar fire to gather the grapes (Joel 3:13, cf. Isa. 5:1-7), which he did, throwing them into the winepress of God's wrath that was outside the city (in the Valley of Jehoshaphat per Joel 3:12?), where they were trampled, causing blood to flow out of the press rising as high as horses bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia, which is about the length of Israel (per Chilton, p. 376). Thus, the Jordan River would run red as it flowed into the Dead Sea, which is reminiscent of the death of Pharaoh's soldiers in the Red Sea (cf. Exo. 14:23, 15:19-21), but this time Israel would not be spared.