Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[BillyBob]

Jesus Himself expressed GRFS or man's responsibility even more succinctly using three, four and five letter words: “Ask… seek… knock…” (Matt. 7:7) and “Repent” (Matt. 4:17). This indicates that God graces every sinful soul with the ability or opportunity to repent and seek salvation (cf. 1Tim. 2:3-4, 2Tim. 2:25, Ezek. 33:11, cf. Rev. 3:5), which might be called “seeking grace” (Tit. 2:11).

When you speak of responsibility [ask, seek, knock, repent, believe] you seem to imply that if you do these things you are saved. But, I disagree due to the fact that most men do this as an insurance policy. They neither know God nor have a real desire to know Him in any way.
I don't disagree that these things are important for the man of God. But, they are of no value until God has humbled you and given you a new heart and a desire to please Him! In other words, He has already saved you!

 

[Magenta]

“Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” “The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.” The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. John 8 v 47; Matthew 13 v 11; 2 Corinthians ch 4 v 4; Romans 8 v 9b

 

[GWH]

When did i say such a thing? Salvation isnt by works, nor is a dead man responsible to get himself alive

The NT says everyone (which includes you) may be saved by believing in Jesus as Messiah and Lord.

 

[GWH]

When you speak of responsibility [ask, seek, knock, repent, believe] you seem to imply that if you do these things you are saved. But, I disagree due to the fact that most men do this as an insurance policy. They neither know God nor have a real desire to know Him in any way.
I don't disagree that these things are important for the man of God. But, they are of no value until God has humbled you and given you a new heart and a desire to please Him! In other words, He has already saved you!

The NT teaches that everyone who humbles himself, repents and believes in Jesus as Messiah and the Lord incarnate will be saved
or given a new heart/the Holy Spirit/desire to love everyone.

 

[Cameron143]

The NT says everyone (which includes you) may be saved by believing in Jesus as Messiah and Lord.

Where does it say everyone? My Bible says whosoever believes.

 

[HeIsHere]

When did i say such a thing? Salvation isnt by works, nor is a dead man responsible to get himself alive

He is responsible to receive the gift which will get him alive again.
The real God does not use force when it comes to the gift of salvation, it is either received or refused.

That is how a gift works and why Paul called it a gift and the word "effectual" is not there.

 

[BillyBob]

The NT teaches that everyone who humbles himself, repents and believes in Jesus as Messiah and the Lord incarnate will be saved
or given a new heart/the Holy Spirit/desire to love everyone.

If you think that you are saved because of something that you have done, then you have bought into an insurance policy that will never pay off!

 

[HeIsHere]

You have an Bible laying around? Well dust it off and prove your novel pretensions one way or another.

Never going to happen because it cannot be done. imo

It is a false soteriology, start to finish with selected, repeated, specific cherry picked verses.

 

[Jordon]

David prayed that God create in him a new heart.
Was he ignorant?

David prayed for new heart after he was anointed by the prophet Samuel , but you could also say David was a descendant of Abraham and probably would have prayed for a new heart anyways , and in genessis 18:,19 For I have chosen him, so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing what is right and just, so that the Lord will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him.” Abraham and all his descendants where chosen to keep the way of the lord, which means they where chosen not to be ignorant, and you could say every one is called not to be ignorant, as it's clear in scripture that everyone is without excuse, meaning everyone gets called in a way to not be ignorant , and there conscience pricked by God.

 

[HeIsHere]

God is right and just to set the terms and conditions as He always does:

"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool."

"If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it."
Isaiah 1:18-20

 

[Magenta]

Jeremiah 9 v 23-24, 1 Corinthians ch 1 v 31 This is what the LORD says: “Let not the wise man boast in his wisdom, nor the strong man in his strength, nor the wealthy man in his riches. But let him who boasts boast in this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the LORD, who exercises loving devotion, justice and righteousness on the earth - for I delight in these things,” declares the LORD. As it is written, “He who boasts, let him boast in the Lord.”

 

[Magenta]

God is right and just to set the terms and conditions as He always does:

"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool."
"If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: But if ye refuse and
rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it."
Isaiah 1:18-20

Romans 8 v 5-9 Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

 

[Cameron143]

David prayed for new heart after he was anointed by the prophet Samuel , but you could also say David was a descendant of Abraham and probably would have prayed for a new heart anyways , and in genessis 18:,19 For I have chosen him, so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing what is right and just, so that the Lord will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him.” Abraham and all his descendants where chosen to keep the way of the lord, which means they where chosen not to be ignorant, and you could say every one is called not to be ignorant, as it's clear in scripture that everyone is without excuse, meaning everyone gets called in a way to not be ignorant , and there conscience pricked by God.

Right. David was praying for restoration, and not salvation.

 

[Magenta]

I know that nothing good lives in my flesh... For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. Each of us has become like something unclean, and our iniquities carry us away like the wind. Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? Not one. No one is good except God alone. A bad tree cannot bear good fruit. “What is impossible with man is possible with God.” from: Romans 7 v 18, Galatians 5 v 17, Isaiah 64 v 6, Job 14 v 4, Mark 10 v 18, Matthew 7 v 18, Luke 18 v 27

 

[Jordon]

The NT teaches that everyone who humbles himself, repents and believes in Jesus as Messiah and the Lord incarnate will be saved
or given a new heart/the Holy Spirit/desire to love everyone.

the bible teaches that God's words burns in people's hearts and brings about Godly sorrow

 

[Magenta]

1 Corinthians 12 verse 2-3 & from Romans 8 verse 9 ~ You know that when you were pagans, you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. Therefore I inform you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. You are controlled by the Spirit if the Spirit of God lives in you. The Spirit of truth proceeds from the Father to testify about Jesus. From John 15 verse 26

 

[Magenta]

I wonder what FWers think "The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth" means.

It seems they are equally ignorant of, "If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ."

Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom (2 Cor ch 3 v 17). If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ (Rom 8 v 9b). The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him (from John 14 v 17). Those not in Christ are not free (see Heb 2 v 15). Praise God if He has rescued you from the dominion of darkness! (see Col 1 v 13)

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I think your more mature than this, I'm not fully sure what's gone on here but if you've actually been denying everything that magenta has said for longer than I know perhaps she feels like your calling her liar, now maybe you've also been speaking to her or about her like the way you have here for a long time, I don't know that either, but it seems to me you don't have much respect for her and your supporting the bullies who gang up on her, and I'm not sure why that is, but is it that you don't like Calvinism either ? Is that there real issues here has it been that way for some time, as the way I'm seeing this is, magenta has been referred to and talked and argued against on that base for quite some time,

well, I was in a discussion with you ... I was quoted by BillyBob ... here's the post ... you tell me who Magenta was referring to:

The fig leaves Adam and Eve made for themselves (Gen 3:7) represented their fleshly, human attempt to cover their sin and and shame.

Sort of like a free willie thinking his fleshly, human attempt to cover his sin and and shame is sufficient for the job.

Unfortunately free willers think they are clever to present mothers loving and caring for their children as "evil."

While wanting us to think of them as informed, right, and smart. It's disgraceful

here's the next falsehood:

You know ... and Magenta knows ... you have yet to provide factual support for claims made.

Says the person who entered this thread breathing out lies and false accusations, then talking about how Christians ought to behave!

Don't expect me to try to find all your lies.

I have shown Magenta the first 10 posts submitted by me in this thread ... you've seen them if you took the time to read them ... where did I lie? where did I falsely accuse anyone?

You need to wake up and smell the coffee ... at worst, Magenta lied and falsely accused her sister in Christ ... at best, something said by another poster was attributed to me by Magenta. God searches our hearts ... God examines our reasonings ... nothing is hid from God ...

Jeremiah 17:10 I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward each person according to their conduct, according to what their deeds deserve.

And she has every right to call people liars who are falsely miss representing her faith and falsely labeling her this nasty calvinist all the time

as far as misrepresenting her faith ... I explain my understanding of Scripture and Magenta is free to explain her understanding of Scripture. I focus on the Scripture at issue ... not the particular sect of the person to whom I respond.

as far as I'm concerned, all who are born again are members in particular in the body of the Lord Jesus Christ over which He is the Head. There's only one body ... maybe if we'd remember that truth when we're discussing Scripture, there'd be less hostility in the threads.

as far as "falsely labeling her this nasty calvinist" ... please provide the post submitted by me where I ever labelled her. I refer to Magenta by her chosen moniker ...
I refer to you by your chosen moniker ... Genez by his chosen moniker ... sawdust ... cv5 ... GWH ... Rufus ... Cameron143 ... whoever I reply to, I use their chosen moniker. name-calling does nothing to encourage healthy engagement in discussion.

It would be better for you to let things go really,.

it would be better for Magenta to come clean ... she is free to say she misspoke or she was referring to a different person who entered the thread ... maybe she'll think twice before slinging fiery darts in the future ...

The truth of the matter is she represents the word of God very well and is well grounded in the word,

And she like you has every right to defend her faith

I have never claimed she does not have the right to defend her faith ... but Magenta does not have the right to make slanderous statements ... instead of owning up to her error, she remains mum and leaves you, while valiantly trying to protect her, to clean up after her.


Ephesians 4:29-32

29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

.

 

[rogerg]

God is right and just to set the terms and conditions as He always does:

"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool."

"If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it."
Isaiah 1:18-20

And His conditions for those He saves are...... that there are no conditions except being chosen by Him for salvation.
That's precisely why He sent Jesus Christ as THE Savior.

 

[Magenta]

And His conditions for those He saves are...... that there are no conditions except being chosen by Him for salvation.
That's precisely why He sent Jesus Christ as THE Savior.

So odd that she claims God is right and fair when she belly aches about how unfair He is and contradicts
many verses that plainly outlay how one is saved. For instance she says everyone hears when they do not,
and since faith comes by hearing, hearing is pretty important. Jesus said He came to open the ears of the
deaf but in her theology nobody is deaf. The whole world is blinded but same same, to her everyone sees.
She does not even believe God is necessary to bring people to belief- something else flying in the face of Truth.