Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[BillyBob]

He limits his gift of grace to the humble per numerous scriptures. For God detests the PROUD! But He eternally loves the HUMBLE in Christ, for they have also been given the gift of the Fear of the Lord which existentially humbles their soul. (Study the Cornelius account in

The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector Luke 18:9

Directed to those who trusted in themselves because of what they did; they trusted in themselves that they were righteous by what they did.

9 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

It was not his asking for mercy which saved the tax collector, but the work of God that had been done in him which truly humbled him.

 

[Rufus]

TULIP/"doctrines of not grace" summarized:

God created a world where you can only want Him if He wants you.

and there’s literally nothing you can do about it

... but it is still your fault.


Let all non-scriptural Total Inability adherents proclaim this to all friends and family during this Christmas Season.
Tidings of great comfort and joy abound for them!!

And that's what it means for the HELPLESS to be RESCUED! One can only be rescued if there's someone around who wants to rescue the powerless. But the proud and arrogant of this world have no sense of their helplessness. The do not and cannot understand that they are their own worst enemies who need to be rescued from themselves.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

well i wonder do you want to listen ?

yes.

A claim was made and I am in the process of verifying the veracity of the claim.

The person who made the claim (Magenta) has thus far refused to provide the post number which would clear up the matter.

Magenta said:

Unfortunately free willers think they are clever to present mothers loving and caring for their children as "evil."​

You also made a claim but will not provide the post number which would clear the matter up.

Jordon said:

you'll have to go back a few posts before where the sarcastic free willer said when an unbeliver does good there doing evil​

Providing the post number would lead to verifiable fact ... not providing the post number leads to a subjective conclusion on the part of those who refuse to provide the information requested.

And I wonder could God go against your will to make you listen

And I wonder could God go against your will to make you provide the post number?

I wonder in terms of percentage what percentage would you consider something you could find agreement on with me, would it be 99.9 percent true you could find agreement , or would it have to be 100 percent.

In the case of your claim ... if you provide the post number you wouldn't have to wonder ... I would tell you outright if I agree 100% ... 99.9% ... or some other %.

Fixed it for you

nope ... again fixed it for yourself.


Hebrews 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

ok fair points

ok ... so consider what is written in 1 Corinthians 2 ...

In 1 Cor 2 Paul states that he preached Jesus Christ, and Him crucified ... which is the gospel by which the unbeliever is brought from death to life ... and then the believer is to continue following the Lord, feed on the milk of the Word, and grow from newborn babe to maturity then feed on the meat.

1 Corinthians 2:2-5 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Paul was discouraging the believers from following men ... Paul was encouraging the believers to follow the Lord Jesus Christ ... feed on the milk of the Word and grow to spiritual maturity.


Now read verse 6 where Paul describes what was discussed and taught among the more mature believers in the church at Corinth:

1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought

The words "are perfect" are translated from the Greek word téleios which means mature, of full age. Paul specifically states that he and other more mature believers spoke wisdom amongst themselves. These discussions were not held in the regular church congregation.

1 Cor 2:6-16 specifically relates to spiritual matters which go beyond the scope of the gospel which was taught in the general congregation of the church:

vs 6 – the wisdom was discussed among the mature believers ... the gospel was taught in the general congregation (vss 1-2).

vs 7 – the wisdom of God in a mystery ... this wisdom was kept secret since the world began (Rom 16:25); and in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men (Eph 3:5); and from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God (Eph 3:9); and which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest (Col 1:26). Please understand, the gospel was never hid by God ... the gospel is proclaimed throughout all of Scripture from Genesis to Revelation.

vs 8 – if the devil and his minions had known the mystery, the hidden wisdom, they never would have crucified the Lord Jesus Christ.

vs 9 – the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).

vs 10 – the deep things of God go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel). The gospel is considered milk upon which the new believer (in fact, all believers) is to desire so that he/she may grow thereby... the mystery, the hidden wisdom is (scripturally) considered to be strong meat.

vs 11 – the things of God which no man knoweth go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).

vs 12 – the things that are freely given to us of God go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).

vs 13 – things which the Holy Ghost teacheth go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).

vs 14 – the things of the Spirit of God and specifically the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).


believing the gospel is only the beginning ... the gospel is glorious in scope and magnificence ... and there is much, much more to understand when it comes to what God describes as the hidden wisdom. In fact, Eph 3:8 speaks of the unsearchable riches of Christ. There is no end to this hidden wisdom ... which is a truth we will understand in our time in new heaven/new earth ... the more we know of the Lord Jesus Christ, the more we understand there is more and more and more. we will never come to the end of Him.

Pointing out that the gospel is not what is referred to in 1 Cor 2:14 does not ... in any way, shape, or form ... diminish the magnificence of the gospel.

.

 

[Rufus]

The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector Luke 18:9

Directed to those who trusted in themselves because of what they did; they trusted in themselves that they were righteous by what they did.

9 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

It was not his asking for mercy which saved the tax collector, but the work of God that had been done in him which truly humbled him.

Amen, Brother! And that "work of God" was a combination of Circumcision of the Heart and the Fear of the Lord which would have been operating in the soul of that HUMBLE tax collector.

 

[HeIsHere]

And that's what it means for the HELPLESS to be RESCUED! One can only be rescued if there's someone around who wants to rescue the powerless. But the proud and arrogant of this world have no sense of their helplessness. The do not and cannot understand that they are their own worst enemies who need to be rescued from themselves.

The lie of Calvinism, God picks winners & losers to be saved or lost.

 

[rogerg]

View attachment 283096

Believing that we are able to achieve our own salvation is what is patently false. Jesus Christ alone bears the title of Savior man does not.

[2Ti 1:8-10 KJV]
8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

 

[Rufus]

Freedom is freedom Cameron, stop trying to make it into something else.

Except when it isn't in its temporary state.

 

[Rufus]

The lie of Calvinism, God picks winners & losers to be saved or lost.

Your arrogant pride and self-deception will not allow you to see your helpless state. You're far too self-absorbed, self-reliant, self-sufficient and self-loving to see your true condition. May it please the Lord to remove the scales from your eyes one day soon before it's too late.

 

[HeIsHere]

Believing that we are able to achieve our own salvation is what is patently false. Jesus Christ alone bears the title of Savior man does not.

Receiving a gift is not saving ourselves.

It is really time to find a more substantial argument, but that is a huge challenge when dealing with the false system of TULIP so not surprised it always comes down to the false claim that a non-Calvinist is saving themselves.

 

[rogerg]

Receiving a gift is not saving ourselves.

It is really time to find a more substantial argument, but that is a huge challenge when dealing with the false system of TULIP so not surprised it always comes down to the false claim that a non-Calvinist is saving themselves.

It's not a gift if you have to do something to get it.

There is no more "substantial argument" than Scripture written by God, which is what I posted, and what we've been
saying all along. You just don't recognize it when read see it - so you're still blind.
Your problem is that you believe in a gospel that is a figment of your imagination - what you'd like it to be - rather than the one that is and which came from God.

 

[Blain]

Your arrogant pride and self-deception will not allow you to see your helpless state. You're far too self-absorbed, self-reliant, self-sufficient and self-loving to see your true condition. May it please the Lord to remove the scales from your eyes one day soon before it's too late.

Woah now take it easy there buddy that was uncalled for

 

[HeIsHere]

It's not a gift if you have to do something to get it.

There is no more "substantial argument" than Scripture written by God, which is what I posted, and what we've been
saying all along. You just don't recognize it when read see it - so you're still blind.
Your problem is that you believe in a gospel that is a figment of your imagination - what you'd like it to be - rather than the one that is and which came from God.

Actually one cannot earn the gift, that is what the Bible clearly teaches.
Receiving the gift freely is also what Scripture teaches.
Try again

 

[HeIsHere]

Woah now take it easy there buddy that was uncalled for

Par for the course really.

Jesus clearly states to believe and have faith in Him.. the theology of roadblocks (TULIP) asserts you cannot, don't want to and never will unless god has created you for divine selection.

I"ll go with the words of Christ Jesus and His message to all humanity.

 

[Blain]

Par for the course really.

Jesus clearly states to believe and have faith in Him.. the theology of roadblocks (TULIP) asserts you cannot, don't want to and never will unless god has created you for divine selection.

I"ll go with the words of Christ Jesus and His message to all humanity.

Timothy 2:4 ("God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth")
this says it all to me

 

[HeIsHere]

Timothy 2:4 ("God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth")
this says it all to me

Agree and Amen!

 

[Jordon]

yes.

A claim was made and I am in the process of verifying the veracity of the claim.

The person who made the claim (Magenta) has thus far refused to provide the post number which would clear up the matter.

Magenta said:

Unfortunately free willers think they are clever to present mothers loving and caring for their children as "evil."​

You also made a claim but will not provide the post number which would clear the matter up.

Jordon said:

you'll have to go back a few posts before where the sarcastic free willer said when an unbeliver does good there doing evil​

Providing the post number would lead to verifiable fact ... not providing the post number leads to a subjective conclusion on the part of those who refuse to provide the information requested.





And I wonder could God go against your will to make you provide the post number?





In the case of your claim ... if you provide the post number you wouldn't have to wonder ... I would tell you outright if I agree 100% ... 99.9% ... or some other %.





nope ... again fixed it for yourself.


Hebrews 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

.

Ive already shown you where the sarcastic free willer called good evil.

It looks like your claim is one that won't listen

Well the question is now, can God actually go against your will to make you listen

 

[Blain]

Ive already shown you where the sarcastic free willer called good evil.

It looks like your claim is one that won't listen

Well the question is now, can God actually go against your will to make you listen

He could but he won't, he never forces anything on us so if people won't listen he won't bother with them

 

[Jordon]

He could but he won't, he never forces anything on us so if people won't listen he won't bother with them

I thought he was a she lol.

She listens but not in full lol, on the bases of anything you say has to be 100 percent accurate, .

It can't be 99 percent either

 

[Blain]

I thought he was a she lol.

She listens but not in full lol, on the bases of anything you say has to be 100 percent accurate, .

It can't be 99 percent either

I was talking about God whe not forcving someone to listen against their will