Loss of salvation???

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Please explain, then, what basis you go by in determining what's valid as a standing requirement upon all believers today and what are not. I have grave doubts you obey the Mosaic Law, but please do inform us all about your chosen criteria for what's included and what's excluded, and the basis thereof.

It's called spiritual discernment coupled with common sense. There's a vast difference between telling a leper who is under the law of Moses to do something that was required by the law, and revealing spiritual truths that apply to all of humanity for all of time.
 
I'm sorry but you are not citing scripture, you can not back up this statement, it is no where in HIS word.

"I believe once your handed to the son from he father, the son sees his father's mercy in you and repentance is given ?"

Can you show me how that get rid of our sins?

You don't think Satan puts thoughts in people heads?

He want's me back, it's not persecrtion he want's likes sin and what's to keep us in it.

What answers? Show me in HIS word how we get rid of sins.

I don't accept men's opinion's as an answers as we all have one.

I'm sorry if I may seem rude, I have NO tack at all.
Oh I'm sorry but I am writing scripture in every post, heres 5 different scriptures in this post,

The fathers mercy is the same as the sons mercy all three are one in the God head.

Godly sorrow leads to repentance,

Which means God gives people repentance to be saved, which means the father will have mercy on whom he will have mercy, and when the the father hands a person to the son, the son sees the fathers mercy in him, it really that simple, as the father can spend many years for true mercy to show in a person heart.

Yes mercy is the key to being saved and it's the first stage of God's enabling grace

No one can Go to the son unless the father hands a person to the son.

The ones who don't get handed to the son, are the ones who the lord will say I never knew you.

So basically if your known by the son your saved as the father has built your heart up in his Fire tested it with his sorrow given you repentance and then handed you to the son, where this happens John 4:14
 
I have answered your question. You simply remain confused.

The way you answered that question was beating around the bush which proves the answer to be "NO".

Then, how were you baptized!

The only thing I'm confused about is the way some people think.

It brings these verses to real life.

Matthew 7:21-23
King James Version
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
 
So you accept the fact that JESUS has not filled you, and it's not your fought, which does answer my question.
Another straw man argument. I never said that.

You can add JESUS to your list also.
What list is that?

So now the question is when did the first time someone spoke in tongues and who is it for?

Acts 2:38-39
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

NOT MAYBE, OR FOR SOME!!!

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
All believers (Jew and Gentile alike) receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38; 10:43-47; 11:17; 15:7-9) but not all believers speak in tongues. (1 Corinthians 12:29-30) The purpose of speaking in tongues in Acts 2 was to proclaim the gospel to a diverse audience in their own languages. Why are you so obsessed with speaking in tongues?

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

According to JESUS we need it to be reborn!!!

How do you know you have it?

How did Phillip know they DIDN'T IN ACTS 8??
I already thoroughly covered John 3:5 with you in posts #4,382 and #4,390. The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God (Romans 8:16) and it is possible for believers to know they have eternal life. (1 John 5:13) Phillip knew the Samaritans had not yet received the Holy Spirit because they did not exhibit the Spirit's arrival and it was not until they had hands laid on them that they received the Holy Spirit. God intentionally delayed the Spirit's arrival to involve the apostles which confirmed to skeptical Jews that the Samaritans were accepted by God into the body of Christ and also to promote unity.
 
The way you answered that question was beating around the bush which proves the answer to be "NO".
No matter how I answer your question, you are still going to believe what you want to believe.

Then, how were you baptized!
By the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13) then afterwards in water. (Acts 10:43-48)

The only thing I'm confused about is the way some people think.

It brings these verses to real life.
You need to read those verses below in context, starting with verse 15 - Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.

Matthew 7:21-23
King James Version
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. These false prophets in Matthew 7:15-23 were not true converts.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Notice, Lord, Lord didn't WE. They were trusting in what they did (works-righteousness) and not in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. The correct answer for these many folks would have been Lord, Lord, didn't YOU die for our sins, were buried and rise again the third day to provide for us eternal life. We trust in you as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Anyone can claim to accomplish those things in verse 22, yet Jesus did not uphold their claim. Instead, Jesus said, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (practice lawlessness) See 1 John 3:7-10. Jesus never knew these false converts which means they were never saved.
 
No matter how I answer your question, you are still going to believe what you want to believe.

By the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13) then afterwards in water. (Acts 10:43-48)

You need to read those verses below in context, starting with verse 15 - Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. These false prophets in Matthew 7:15-23 were not true converts.

Notice, Lord, Lord didn't WE. They were trusting in what they did (works-righteousness) and not in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. The correct answer for these many folks would have been Lord, Lord, didn't YOU die for our sins, were buried and rise again the third day to provide for us eternal life. We trust in you as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

Anyone can claim to accomplish those things in verse 22, yet Jesus did not uphold their claim. Instead, Jesus said, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (practice lawlessness) See 1 John 3:7-10. Jesus never knew these false converts which means they were never saved.

Acts 8 14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

FYI, they knew for the same reason you know you haven't.

Since you have never been bapitzed in JESUS name to remove your sins, you should study out how to get rid of sin with HIS word.

As I shared JESUS SAID, can't enter without BOTH.

But you do you.
 
Acts 8 14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

FYI, they knew for the same reason you know you haven't.

Since you have never been bapitzed in JESUS name to remove your sins, you should study out how to get rid of sin with HIS word.

As I shared JESUS SAID, can't enter without BOTH.

But you do you.
To be baptized in Jesus name is not a reference to a rigid, salvic baptismal formula but a reference to authority. In Matthew 28:19, Jesus Himself said, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. That is to baptize in Jesus name (by His authority). He has all authority in heaven and earth. (Matthew 28:18) Oneness Pentecostal types reject this command by Jesus because they reject the Trinity.
 
ah sorry I had to check, was you implying people can be filled with the spirit but not speak in tongues

I kinda knew you didn't mean what I asked from the expresion of your faith 🙂
Every person born into this world has a spirit but those who have the Holy Spirit have been born Again.
 
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To be baptized in Jesus name is not a reference to a rigid, salvic baptismal formula but a reference to authority. In Matthew 28:19, Jesus Himself said, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. That is to baptize in Jesus name (by His authority). He has all authority in heaven and earth. (Matthew 28:18) Oneness Pentecostal types reject this command by Jesus because they reject the Trinity.

JESUS was talking to HIS DISCIPLE'S, those who KNEW HIM.

How did they tell us to baptize?

In EVERY case, JESUS NAME.

Did they disobey JESUS or obey HIM?

Having the Holy Ghost helps us "SEE"

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.



1 Corinthians 12
King James Version
1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
 
Every person born into this world has a spirit but those who have the Holy Spirit have been born Again.
The promise was given, and with promises there very meaningful to God , and many people truly love being under the promise and sharing the promise, as its very promising indeed 🙂
 
I understand what you’re saying🙂when you say get rid of, you mean believe and repent.

Thank you, that is the first part,

Verse 37, they believed and was told what to do.

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
 
You want answers from me before answering questions I posed to you first? I'm not sure how you generally deal with people but when you deal with me you don't get to unilaterally dictate the conversation. Answer my questions which I asked first the I'll answer yours.

I did answer your question, but perhaps not on the plane of your thoughts on this topic.

Simplistically, yes and yes.

Rationale:

Romans 11:13 — For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

1 Timothy 2:7 — Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not, teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

2 Timothy 1:11 — Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

Notice Paul did not say "I among the twelve...," but that he was THE apostle to the Gentiles in verse 13 above. Some have argued that the article "the" was added by the translators and therefore is a biased input from them. The problem with the arm chair experts out there who only know a hand full of Greek words and even less about Greek constructs for grammatical absolutes, in this case being a difference between inclusiveness versus exclusionary, the article "the" has ample backing within the meaning in the phraseology grounded in the majority of the manuscripts.

Romans 2:16 — In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Romans 16:25 — Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

I could go on with quotes of this nature, showing Paul clearly took ownership of HIS gospel given to him by no man, but by revelation directly from Christ Jesus that was antithetical to works contrasted with that of James. Many are in the practice of overlooking the differences and corrupting the clear meaning in the texts to fit their personal beliefs, but it is in vain given the text is clear.

Galatians 1:11-12 KJV — But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Paul was persecuting the Messianic Jews on the basis of what he had learned from men, which was before his encounter with Christ on the roadway to Damascus. What he preached after that encounter was NOT from what he learned from men, but only from Christ, and this is negated with mindless abandon by many who simply refuse to use their God-given senses of reason. The implications and ramifications sail over their heads without their notice.

I've said a number of times in here that it's not so much as matter of ignoring what Jesus and the Twelve taught, but rather recognizing the difference in audience and truths that have dispensational divisions. If truth didn't have divisions, then this would make no sense:

2 Timothy 2:15 KJV — Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Instead, some ignore the divisions while attempting to mesh it all together into a confusing pot of mush theology, making, for example, our salvation a matter of being rooted in the requirement for water baptism for the remission of our sins today, as was preached by Peter in Acts 2 to Israel, not to Gentiles.

Dividing truth from what? He wasn't speaking of truth from falsehoods. It's truth from truth given that he spoke only along the line of truth since it's based on the word.

So yes, we ignore those things, in the sense of obedience today, that contradict Paul's teachings in the manner of, again, applicability to us today, so we should read those other writings with a jaundiced eye as to it all applying to us today. The believing Jews were still living the Law of Moses, as Peter bragged about with not one word said in the negative for such. We today were not required to follow suit. Therefore yet another difference between them back then and us today.

Lecturing? No. I don't give a rip snort what you believe. If you choose to try and find salvation today from obedience to the Law coupled with faith, go for it and see later if that was sufficient. That other gospel is not what was preached by Paul. I'm not among the accursed for preaching another gospel that has no saving power for us today by way of works of which we may boast. When it comes to the Gospel for us today, yes, I will stick to what Laul taught on that front without running to some modern priest to be circumcised (imagematically speaking) unto the salvation offered by another gospel that is no longer valid for us today. The culture of boasters out there have a problem on their hands that I prefer to avoid.

Again, the answer offered in more detail. What about my question?

MM
 
I did answer your question, but perhaps not on the plane of your thoughts on this topic.

Ah now the superior attitude is showing it's head and deigning to instruct those existing on a lower plane of enlightenment. If it's the same spirit, it will have the same manifestations

"Animal men, again, are instructed in animal things; such men, namely, as are established by their works, and by a mere faith, while they have not perfect knowledge. We of the Church, [Valentinian gnostics] say, are these persons. ... they run us down (who from the fear of God guard against sinning even in thought or word) as utterly contemptible and ignorant persons, while they highly exalt themselves, and claim to be perfect, and the elect seed."

Against Heresies, book 1, chapter 6, paragraphs 2, 4
 
If you're talking about the book of Revelation, no. That does not apply to us. That is for Israel. In Matthew 24 where Jesus talks about their having to endure unto the end so that they SHALL (future tense) be saved, that clearly is not a reference to us since we will not be on this earth at that time.

Does that answer your question?

MM


Rev is all I have been talking about - You have answered – but I’m not sure I agree that it relates to only the Israelites –

Matt 24 – I also don’t see what you seem to be saying

Also Gentiles were all ready included based on Matt 28 - 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

This was before REV – all are included
 
Rev is all I have been talking about - You have answered – but I’m not sure I agree that it relates to only the Israelites –

Matt 24 – I also don’t see what you seem to be saying

Also Gentiles were all ready included based on Matt 28 - 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

This was before REV – all are included

Have you ever attempted to understand this:

Luke 13:6-9 — He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

Who was that about? Three years...and how long did Jesus strive with Israel?

What happened one year later, after the ascention of Christ?

That the masses are not taught how to put these things together through systematic study, nor seeking the Spirit for understanding (1 John2:27), they remain ignorant to this day; as are their ignorant professionals they call their "pastor."

MM
 
Have you ever attempted to understand this:

Luke 13:6-9 — He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

Who was that about? Three years...and how long did Jesus strive with Israel?

What happened one year later, after the ascention of Christ?

That the masses are not taught how to put these things together through systematic study, nor seeking the Spirit for understanding (1 John2:27), they remain ignorant to this day; as are their ignorant professionals they call their "pastor."

MM

Thats not a response to the point raised - lets deal with one thing at a time - reply to the points raised

Happy to discuss other things after
 
Rev is all I have been talking about - You have answered – but I’m not sure I agree that it relates to only the Israelites –

Matt 24 – I also don’t see what you seem to be saying

Also Gentiles were all ready included based on Matt 28 - 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

This was before REV – all are included

Revelation was the only point at the end where we did not discuss extensively because we did not agree. What more is there to say? If you're going to be here during that period, for whatever reason, then that's on you since THEN those things said to Israel in that book will THEN apply to you. They do not apply to the body of Christ.

MM