good questions each deserve a full thread and if you want I can write and start them. it would be far too much for a single reply. let me know if you want me to proceed.
The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?
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Your op title alone tells us all we need to know. You want people to believe the 10 commandments are the covenant when Jesus has said His blood shed for us is actually the covenant. This has been gone over multiple times and you have never addressed it. You ignore it even though you quote Jesus on other things but it seems only before his death and resurrection.
WHY IS THAT?
What about this?
26While they were eating, Jesus took bread, spoke a blessing and broke it, and gave it to the disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is My body.”
27Then He took the cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28This is My blood of the covenant,e which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in My Father’s kingdom.”
Why are you telling people they can keep the commandments and the commandments are the Covenant?
Obviously, that is not true. Jesus says His shed blood is the covenant for salvation.
No, your own words in post after post and even your thread title, determine that what I said is true.
Really? What part do you have in mind? The commandments are not the covenant that a believer has with God.
Someone needs to demand an answer from you regarding what faith you represent because it certainly is not biblical Christianity.
How would you define the New Covenant?
(Exodus 40:1–33; Acts 7:44–47)
1Now the first covenant had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary. 2A tabernacle was prepared. In its first room were the lampstand, the table, and the consecrated bread. This was called the Holy Place. 3Behind the second curtain was a room called the Most Holy Place, 4containing the golden altar of incense and the gold-covered ark of the covenant. Inside the ark were the gold jar of manna, Aaron’s staff that had budded, and the stone tablets of the covenant. 5Above the ark were the cherubim of glory, overshadowing the mercy seat.d But we cannot discuss these things in detail now.
6When everything had been prepared in this way, the priests entered regularly into the first room to perform their sacred duties. 7But only the high priest entered the second room, and then only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance.
8By this arrangement the Holy Spirit was showing that the way into the Most Holy Placee had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still standing. 9It is an illustration for the present time, because the gifts and sacrifices being offered were unable to cleanse the conscience of the worshiper. 10They consist only in food and drink and special washings—external regulations imposed until the time of reform.
13For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that their bodies are clean, 14how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself unblemished to God, purify ourg consciences from works of death, so that we may serve the living God!
15Therefore Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, now that He has died to redeem them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
16In the case of a will,h it is necessary to establish the death of the one who made it, 17because a will does not take effect until the one who made it has died; it cannot be executed while he is still alive.
18That is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. 19For when Moses had proclaimed every commandment of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats,i along with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people, 20saying, “This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep.”j
21In the same way, he sprinkled with blood the tabernacle and all the vessels used in worship. 22According to the law, in fact, nearly everything must be purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
23So it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24For Christ did not enter a man-made copy of the true sanctuary, but He entered heaven itself, now to appear on our behalf in the presence of God.
25Nor did He enter heaven to offer Himself again and again, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26Otherwise, Christ would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But now He has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
27Just as man is appointed to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28so also Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many; and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await Him. Hebrews 9
Nothing to do with your idea of the 10 commandments being the covenant or any covenant regardiing those who have forgiveness through the blood of Christ.
You have told me I am under judgement and I do not belong to God. I believe this entire chapter from Hebrews though, and so I KNOW that God is my Father. I know Jesus died for me and I believe all who accept Him are accepted by God.
Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness as v.22 states above and that is part of the law actually. Since no one can keep the law as God demands, Jesus died. HE SHED HIS BLOOD AS THE LAW DEMANDS and because he was sinless and kept the law completely as God demanded, His sacrifce is acceptable to God and we are also when we accept Him as our Savior.
The way we are saved is the same for everyone
From Adam until the end. The same robe of perfect righteousness will cover those before the flood as those just before the comming.
Dispensationalism is from the devil
Same God of love today as was at creation.
The sabbath was made at creation.
Made for mankind
Why take it away today?
From Adam until the end. The same robe of perfect righteousness will cover those before the flood as those just before the comming.
Dispensationalism is from the devil
Same God of love today as was at creation.
The sabbath was made at creation.
Made for mankind
Why take it away today?
But you do pick and choose the commandments you want to keep and do not obey all the commandments that Jesus kept and taught. You picked the Ten commandments out of the law of Moses and then you post scriptures to show Jesus was obeying the 10 commandments and the Sabbath, just like you are. But Jesus didn’t just pick the 10 commandments out of law of Moses, and discard everything else including the least of the commandments. Neither did He teach His disciples and the Jews that gathered to hear Him, to just pick the 10 commandments out of the law of Moses and discard “the least of these commandments”. He said to the Pharisees who obeyed the “least of these commandments”, that they tithed “mint and anise and cummin”, which they “ought to have done”, but they neglected “the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith’. And “the law”, at that time, was the law of Moses, Matthew 23:23
So I say again, are you obeying the whole law of Moses as Jesus did? No! You’re picking out the 10 commandments and discarding all the rest. And then you’re trying to merge the 10 commandments into the New Covenant (agreement/contract) to make the argument that the Sabbath is in the New Covenant therefore it must be observed. This is all ad hoc nonsense from that dead American woman with zero scriptural evidence that God merged a portion of the old covenant with the New Covenant.
“the new covenant is according to scripture people become silent not many know, do you?”
yeah it’s the word of Christ the one mediator between God and man. Not the words of Moses . He was the mediator for Israel’s tribes in the old covenant . The new covenant is what was always promised the messiah and his words of life and light
Jesus words , Jesus blood shed for remission that’s the new covenant
The devil, through sin, has just about wrecked this world of ours. We live in an age of rebellion against all restraint and law.
When we reject or look lightly on the law of God, it leds us to look lightly upon transgression and has made sin to appear unobjectionable. In fact, sin has lost its horror for multitudes and has become an acceptable mode of life for both youth and adults. Witness the current trends in lifestyle that support this view.
Almost all of the great denominations have officially placed themselves on record as supporting the authority of the 10 commandments. Yet very subtle errors of interpretation have crept into the modern church, leading to the present state of confused loyalty toward the Ten Commandments.
Does God’s grace nullify the Ten Commandments? Is a Christian justified in breaking any of the Ten Commandments because he is under grace?
No.. No....
Romans 6:1. “Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?” In other words, does grace give us a license to disobey the law of God? His answer is: “God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?”. How interesting it is that Christians in this age of relativism can invent their own definitions that condone lawbreaking. The Bible says sin is violating the Ten Commandments—the law which has been described as irrelevant and old-fashioned by many modern theologians.
Nothing has made them less binding than they were when God gave them. In fact, Jesus came to magnify the law and to open up its spiritual application, making it more comprehensive than the legalistic Pharisees ever imagined. Under the distilling influence of Christ’s perfect life of obedience, we can see the spiritual details of law-keeping which are neither recognized nor made possible apart from Him.
Do we copy Jesus's example or did Jesus live the law so we can break it freely?
We are saved by grace through faith, as a free gift. “Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin” (Romans 3:20)
So the law does not save us, - Jesus does.
The law helps us to see clearly.. like a mirror.
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed” (James 1:23–25).
Forgetting the law is the devil's aim.
But if you smash the mirror and try to see what faults you have..... it will be hard to confess your sins if you don't realize them, or forget what was shown.
Countless sincere Christians have accepted the idea that the Old Testament encompasses the dispensation of works and that the New Testament provides for a dispensation of grace. Under this garbled plan people were saved by works in the Old Testament and by grace in the New Testament.
Not True, false, error, evil, I can't say it load enough that this is a evil devilish doctrine....
There is only one beautiful, perfect plan for anybody to be saved, and that is by grace through faith. Heaven will not be divided between those who got there by works and those who got there by faith. Every single soul among the redeemed will be a sinner saved by grace.
Some try to dispose of the Ten Commandments on the basis of the “new” commandments of love that Christ introduced. But Christ was quoting the old testament laws that were in no sense new In time.
Notice that these two love commandments simply summed up “all the law and the prophets.” They all hang upon these two principles of love. Christ was saying that love is the fulfilling of the law just as Paul repeated it later in Romans 13:10.
Love will lead to obeying or fulfilling all the law.
When we reject or look lightly on the law of God, it leds us to look lightly upon transgression and has made sin to appear unobjectionable. In fact, sin has lost its horror for multitudes and has become an acceptable mode of life for both youth and adults. Witness the current trends in lifestyle that support this view.
Almost all of the great denominations have officially placed themselves on record as supporting the authority of the 10 commandments. Yet very subtle errors of interpretation have crept into the modern church, leading to the present state of confused loyalty toward the Ten Commandments.
Does God’s grace nullify the Ten Commandments? Is a Christian justified in breaking any of the Ten Commandments because he is under grace?
No.. No....
Romans 6:1. “Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?” In other words, does grace give us a license to disobey the law of God? His answer is: “God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?”. How interesting it is that Christians in this age of relativism can invent their own definitions that condone lawbreaking. The Bible says sin is violating the Ten Commandments—the law which has been described as irrelevant and old-fashioned by many modern theologians.
Nothing has made them less binding than they were when God gave them. In fact, Jesus came to magnify the law and to open up its spiritual application, making it more comprehensive than the legalistic Pharisees ever imagined. Under the distilling influence of Christ’s perfect life of obedience, we can see the spiritual details of law-keeping which are neither recognized nor made possible apart from Him.
Do we copy Jesus's example or did Jesus live the law so we can break it freely?
We are saved by grace through faith, as a free gift. “Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin” (Romans 3:20)
So the law does not save us, - Jesus does.
The law helps us to see clearly.. like a mirror.
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed” (James 1:23–25).
Forgetting the law is the devil's aim.
But if you smash the mirror and try to see what faults you have..... it will be hard to confess your sins if you don't realize them, or forget what was shown.
Countless sincere Christians have accepted the idea that the Old Testament encompasses the dispensation of works and that the New Testament provides for a dispensation of grace. Under this garbled plan people were saved by works in the Old Testament and by grace in the New Testament.
Not True, false, error, evil, I can't say it load enough that this is a evil devilish doctrine....
There is only one beautiful, perfect plan for anybody to be saved, and that is by grace through faith. Heaven will not be divided between those who got there by works and those who got there by faith. Every single soul among the redeemed will be a sinner saved by grace.
Some try to dispose of the Ten Commandments on the basis of the “new” commandments of love that Christ introduced. But Christ was quoting the old testament laws that were in no sense new In time.
Notice that these two love commandments simply summed up “all the law and the prophets.” They all hang upon these two principles of love. Christ was saying that love is the fulfilling of the law just as Paul repeated it later in Romans 13:10.
Love will lead to obeying or fulfilling all the law.
Yes
Totally agree..
And Jesus highlighted the 10 commandments, lived them and taught them.
Mat 5:16-21
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:27-28
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
The contract of the new covenant is that we have the law written on our hearts.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Do we keep the 10 commandments today?
God put them together as a group of 10.
People seem to believe in 9 of the 10 but the 4th is cut out and made a law that we can forget...
The only law of the 10 that God said to REMEMBER, not forget.
The law that was set up before sin.
The law that was made for mankind.
The day that was made holy and set aside by God.
The one commandment that God said is a sign between Him and His people.
Is the one that is forgotten, made unholy, and changed by most of the world...
Please rethink your veiws.
Exo 31:12-13
12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
God put them together as a group of 10.
People seem to believe in 9 of the 10 but the 4th is cut out and made a law that we can forget...
The only law of the 10 that God said to REMEMBER, not forget.
The law that was set up before sin.
The law that was made for mankind.
The day that was made holy and set aside by God.
The one commandment that God said is a sign between Him and His people.
Is the one that is forgotten, made unholy, and changed by most of the world...
Please rethink your veiws.
Exo 31:12-13
12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Yeah a lot of people try to make the old covenant the new one but it’s not .
Moses law isn’t meant to be written in hearts the gospel is here’s an example of an ot commandment and Jesus words in the new
“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery
that’s a ten commandments they already had heard from old times )but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
Matthew 5:27-28
That word is meant for the heart the other was written in a rock for this purpose
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. ( you can have that written on your heart and it will make you guilty ) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”( the law cannot save anyone it never could )
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
If a person wants to kill they need a commandment to look at saying “ thou shalt not kill “ that’s not chrirtianity though it’s about renewal , rebirth , becoming someone better than you were . You simply won’t need a rock telling you not to kill ….. you’d be following Jesus and what he taught us to do again not what Moses taught israel not to do …. But what Jesus taught us to do .
The law of Moses has no pet in Christianity we do t follow ten rocks in an ark we hw e the lord as our shepherd and his living words
meant to save and impart righteousness not a law for killers and adulterers and those who harm everyone like the ancient isralites he made that covenant with through angels … it’s a completely seperate cofenant like he promised . But I mean some want to go back to this
Here’s another example of what the law was for which isn’t going to save anyone
“For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.” ( another commandment )
Romans 7:5-7 KJV
The laws purpose was to show what sin is for these folks
The righteous don’t belong to that law
“knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, ( it’s not going to be written in thier hearts wrong law ) but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers ( thou shalt not kill ) of fathers and murderers of mothers,( honor your parents ) for manslayers, for whoremongers,( not commit adultery ) for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, ( shall not lie ) for perjured persons,( not bear false witness ) and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
1 Timothy 1:9-10 KJV
that’s not meant to be written on the hearts of Christian’s …. Jesus teachings to his disciples are. That’s why we’re called to believe him .
jesus is the line mediator the gospel is Gods everlasting covenant .
“The law that was set up before sin.”
not at all .
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith .
And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions,
till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
Galatians 3:10-11, 17-19 KJV
Jesus fulfilled the law that is why His free gift of righteousness matters.
Staring at the law does not promote love.
Staring at the law only shows you in point form what the real problem is.
A complete lack of love for others.
We are all self-possessed.
Jesus fulfilled the law and the prophets because Jesus was the epitome of love,
that perfect agape love.
Love itself is the eternal commandment and is God's nature to the core.
Love cannot harm anyone, cannot steal, cannot lie, cannot boast, cannot take sides.
If you love others you are way beyond the realm of Hagar.
The way you read Romans 13:8-10 is not correct.
Read the verses below again.
Romans 13:8-10
Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for the one who loves his neighbor has fulfilled
the Law. For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall
not covet, and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, You shall love your
neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the Law.
Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore you don't need to fulfill the law.
All the law does is tell you that you do not love your neighbor but we already know that.
What is the royal law?
What is the law of Christ?
John 15:12
This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.
1 John 2:10
The one who loves his brother and sister remains in the Light, and there is nothing in him to cause stumbling.
1 John 3:11
For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we are to love one another;
The law tells you in, no uncertain terms, that you do not love others!!!!
The Fourth Commandment itself contains no sacrifice at all.
“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.” — Exodus 20:8–11 (NKJV)
It is given to everyone. Fathers, mothers, children, servants, strangers, and even animals are commanded to rest. Nothing is offered, nothing is killed, nothing is burned. The focus is stopping work and remembering the Creator.
The sacrifices mentioned in Numbers 28 were not household commands. They were given only to the priests, and they were done at the Tabernacle or Temple, not in homes. Ordinary people did not sacrifice a lamb every Sabbath in their house. No Israelite family ever did that, not even the most devoted Jews.
Those offerings were part of the priestly service, just like the daily sacrifices that happened every day of the week. The Sabbath offerings did not replace rest. They happened because it was the Sabbath, while the people rested.
This is why, when the Temple was destroyed, the sacrifices stopped, but the Sabbath did not stop. Jews continued to keep the Sabbath by resting, just as the Fourth Commandment says. Even today, the most religious Jews keep the Sabbath without sacrifices, because sacrifices were never part of the command given to the people.
So the Sabbath command is a creation command for all, while the sacrifices were a Temple duty for priests only. Two different instructions, for two different purposes.
Here is the simple truth, explained plainly, with proper scripture in the proper context.
The claim tries to shock by saying a one-time physical act can destroy salvation. That is not what Scripture teaches when everything is read together and in order.
First, we must start with Jesus, because He is the Judge and Teacher. Jesus taught that what truly separates a person from God is the heart, not a physical mark.
Jesus said:
“Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.”
Matthew 15:11 (NKJV)
And again:Matthew 15:11 (NKJV)
“Those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man.”
Matthew 15:18 (NKJV)
Jesus never taught that a physical surgery causes someone to fall from grace. He taught that belief, obedience, and the heart matter.Matthew 15:18 (NKJV)
Jesus also said:
“If you love Me, keep My commandments.”
John 14:15 (NKJV)
Grace is not destroyed by a knife. Grace is rejected when someone refuses Christ’s words.John 14:15 (NKJV)
Now let us look at what Paul actually wrote, without adding opinions.
Paul said:
“Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.”
Galatians 5:2 (NKJV)
And:Galatians 5:2 (NKJV)
“You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.”
Galatians 5:4 (NKJV)
Notice something very important.Galatians 5:4 (NKJV)
He says “attempt to be justified”.
That is the key.
Paul is talking about trust, not skin.
The problem was not having circumcision.
The problem was relying on it instead of Christ.
This is proven by Scripture itself.
Paul also wrote:
“Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.”
1 Corinthians 7:19 (NKJV)
So circumcision by itself cannot destroy grace, because Paul says it is “nothing” on its own.1 Corinthians 7:19 (NKJV)
The issue is when someone says:
“I am right with God because of this act.”
That is exactly what the Pharisees did with the law. Jesus corrected them.
Jesus said:
“This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.”
Matthew 15:8 (NKJV)
Grace is lost only when a person turns away from trusting God and chooses something else as their savior.Matthew 15:8 (NKJV)
This also agrees with the Old Testament, which taught long before Paul:
“Circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and be stiff-necked no longer.”
Deuteronomy 10:16 (NKJV)
God always cared about the heart, not the cut.Deuteronomy 10:16 (NKJV)
The answer is simple.
No, a one-time physical snip cannot magically cancel grace.
What Paul warns against is changing your trust:
– trusting works instead of Christ
– trusting symbols instead of obedience
– trusting rituals instead of faith
Grace is not fragile.
But it can be rejected.
Jesus made that clear when He said:
“He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him.”
John 12:48 (NKJV)
That is the truth, plainly spoken.John 12:48 (NKJV)
There is confusion if verses are isolated.
When Scripture speaks together, the confusion disappears.