Israel.

[God-fearing]

When Jesus returns with resurrected Israel to the land they will be there forever, correct?

No..the new heaven and earth will be the last stop

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

No..the new heaven and earth will be the last stop

The new earth will still be earth; just transformed into perfection

 

[andy700700]

Does God keep His promises?

Proverbs 30:5
New International Version
5 “Every word of God is flawless;
he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.

Joshua 21:45
New International Version
45 Not one of all the Lord’s good promises to Israel failed; every one was fulfilled.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Proverbs 30:5
New International Version
5 “Every word of God is flawless;
he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.

Joshua 21:45
New International Version
45 Not one of all the Lord’s good promises to Israel failed; every one was fulfilled.

So Israel possessed all the land promised and were never uprooted?

 

[God-fearing]

The new earth will still be earth; just transformed into perfection

But it says the old earth passes away along with the heavens.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

But it says the old earth passes away along with the heavens.

It says the earth will be burned and the heavens will "pass away", which doesn't appear to be a very good translation. Sounds like nuclear war to me.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 2 Peter 3:10​

​

Pass away
G3928 παρέρχομαι parerchomai (par-er'-cho-mai) v.
1. to come near or aside.
2. to approach (arrive).
3. to go by (or away).

 

[andy700700]

So Israel possessed all the land promised and were never uprooted?

Joshua 21
New International Version
Now the family heads of the Levites approached Eleazar the priest, Joshua son of Nun, and the heads of the other tribal families of Israel 2 at Shiloh in Canaan and said to them, “The Lord commanded through Moses that you give us towns to live in, with pasturelands for our livestock.” 3 So, as the Lord had commanded, the Israelites gave the Levites the following towns and pasturelands out of their own inheritance:
4 The first lot came out for the Kohathites, according to their clans. The Levites who were descendants of Aaron the priest were allotted thirteen towns from the tribes of Judah, Simeon and Benjamin. 5 The rest of Kohath’s descendants were allotted ten towns from the clans of the tribes of Ephraim, Dan and half of Manasseh.
6 The descendants of Gershon were allotted thirteen towns from the clans of the tribes of Issachar, Asher, Naphtali and the half-tribe of Manasseh in Bashan.
7 The descendants of Merari, according to their clans, received twelve towns from the tribes of Reuben, Gad and Zebulun.
8 So the Israelites allotted to the Levites these towns and their pasturelands, as the Lord had commanded through Moses.
9 From the tribes of Judah and Simeon they allotted the following towns by name 10 (these towns were assigned to the descendants of Aaron who were from the Kohathite clans of the Levites, because the first lot fell to them):
11 They gave them Kiriath Arba (that is, Hebron), with its surrounding pastureland, in the hill country of Judah. (Arba was the forefather of Anak.) 12 But the fields and villages around the city they had given to Caleb son of Jephunneh as his possession.
13 So to the descendants of Aaron the priest they gave Hebron (a city of refuge for one accused of murder), Libnah, 14 Jattir, Eshtemoa, 15 Holon, Debir, 16 Ain, Juttah and Beth Shemesh, together with their pasturelands—nine towns from these two tribes.
17 And from the tribe of Benjamin they gave them Gibeon, Geba, 18 Anathoth and Almon, together with their pasturelands—four towns.
19 The total number of towns for the priests, the descendants of Aaron, came to thirteen, together with their pasturelands.
20 The rest of the Kohathite clans of the Levites were allotted towns from the tribe of Ephraim:
21 In the hill country of Ephraim they were given Shechem (a city of refuge for one accused of murder) and Gezer, 22 Kibzaim and Beth Horon, together with their pasturelands—four towns.
23 Also from the tribe of Dan they received Eltekeh, Gibbethon, 24 Aijalon and Gath Rimmon, together with their pasturelands—four towns.
25 From half the tribe of Manasseh they received Taanach and Gath Rimmon, together with their pasturelands—two towns.
26 All these ten towns and their pasturelands were given to the rest of the Kohathite clans.
27 The Levite clans of the Gershonites were given:
from the half-tribe of Manasseh,
Golan in Bashan (a city of refuge for one accused of murder) and Be Eshterah, together with their pasturelands—two towns;
28 from the tribe of Issachar,
Kishion, Daberath, 29 Jarmuth and En Gannim, together with their pasturelands—four towns;
30 from the tribe of Asher,
Mishal, Abdon, 31 Helkath and Rehob, together with their pasturelands—four towns;
32 from the tribe of Naphtali,
Kedesh in Galilee (a city of refuge for one accused of murder), Hammoth Dor and Kartan, together with their pasturelands—three towns.
33 The total number of towns of the Gershonite clans came to thirteen, together with their pasturelands.
34 The Merarite clans (the rest of the Levites) were given:
from the tribe of Zebulun,
Jokneam, Kartah, 35 Dimnah and Nahalal, together with their pasturelands—four towns;
36 from the tribe of Reuben,
Bezer, Jahaz, 37 Kedemoth and Mephaath, together with their pasturelands—four towns;
38 from the tribe of Gad,
Ramoth in Gilead (a city of refuge for one accused of murder), Mahanaim, 39 Heshbon and Jazer, together with their pasturelands—four towns in all.
40 The total number of towns allotted to the Merarite clans, who were the rest of the Levites, came to twelve.
41 The towns of the Levites in the territory held by the Israelites were forty-eight in all, together with their pasturelands. 42 Each of these towns had pasturelands surrounding it; this was true for all these towns.
43 So the Lord gave Israel all the land he had sworn to give their ancestors, and they took possession of it and settled there. 44 The Lord gave them rest on every side, just as he had sworn to their ancestors. Not one of their enemies withstood them; the Lord gave all their enemies into their hands. 45 Not one of all the Lord’s good promises to Israel failed; every one was fulfilled.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Joshua 21
New International Version

Thank you, I know what it says. But the fact remains that the Jews have never had all the land they were promised where they were not uprooted. Either it's a bad interpretation or we are missing something. Look at the map and you will see.

 

[Beekeeper]

Question is when has Israel never been uprooted?

You've got one problem with that...specially the 15 verse.

Amo 9:11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

Amo 9:12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.

Amo 9:13 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.

Amo 9:14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.

Amo 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD

The whole chapter fits perfectly with the Babylonian captivity and the second temple restoration.
The time that Amos brings the message suggests that too.
Is V. 15 enough reason on it's own to seek for a future fulfillment?
The answer lies in who God is actually speaking about.
He is not simply speaking about all the Jews, because remember what He has just said in Amos 9:10
"All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us."
So who is "them" and "they" in v. 15?
They are referred to in v.14 as "the captivity of my people".
We know from history that this does not mean all of the captives either, although more are to be saved in a yet future event (Acts 2).
This is a promise of God to a select group of people from a particular generation.
It was fulfilled in the second temple restoration.

 

[HeIsHere]

Thank you, I know what it says. But the fact remains that the Jews have never had all the land they were promised where they were not uprooted. Either it's a bad interpretation or we are missing something. Look at the map and you will see.

Cause maps are static.

 

[brightfame52]

We know that the Church under the NT is the fulfillment of Israel from the OT, because Jesus Christ is their High Priest at the Right Hand of God. Now the writer of the Book of Hebrews, writing to the elect remnant of jews in the early church, writes that Christ as the New Covenant Mediator, the Mediator of the New Covenant, which was promised to the House of Israel, that He has fulfilled many of those promises by His Death, and is now at the right Hand of God ! Heb 8:6

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Heb 12:24

And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Heb 8:1

Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Is not this the same Jesus at the right hand of God as per Paul writing to the gentile church in rome ? Rom 8:34

Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Isnt He there making Intercession for the saints Rom 1:7

To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Rom 8:27

And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. 12

Isnt it therefore the same people being spoken of in the Hebrews letter Heb 7:25

Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Is there a dichtomy in Jesus being at the right hand of God for two different people, the Church, then ethnic jews ? Is He separating His Intercession activity, interceding for the Church on the right, and ethnic jews on the left ?

God forbid ! They are all one people, the Israel of God ! 12

 

[andy700700]

it does not promise them the land in the time line for the future forever it just promises them they would inherit the land but it doesn't say forever
Joshua 1
New International Version
1 After the death of Moses the servant of the Lord, the Lord said to Joshua son of Nun, Moses’ aide: 2 “Moses my servant is dead. Now then, you and all these people, get ready to cross the Jordan River into the land I am about to give to them—to the Israelites. 3 I will give you every place where you set your foot, as I promised Moses. 4 Your territory will extend from the desert to Lebanon, and from the great river, the Euphrates—all the Hittite country—to the Mediterranean Sea in the west. 5 No one will be able to stand against you all the days of your life. As I was with Moses, so I will be with you; I will never leave you nor forsake you. 6 Be strong and courageous, because you will lead these people to inherit the land I swore to their ancestors to give them.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

it does not promise them the land in the time line for the future forever it just promises them they would inherit the land but it doesn't say forever

Everlasting... sure it does, and more than once.

 

[Beekeeper]

Heaven and earth as we know it is not everlasting.
The only everlasting blessing is in Christ.

 

[andy700700]

i understand now
Israel didn't permanently stay in the earthly Canaan, but biblical interpretation explains this by distinguishing between the physical land and the spiritual fulfillment of "everlasting possession" in Olam (Hebrew for age/eternity), pointing towards a greater, heavenly inheritance and God's enduring presence with His people, fulfilled in Jesus and the New Creation, not just a temporary patch of ground. The earthly land was a foreshadowing, a promise with conditions (obedience), while the ultimate "everlasting" promise points to an eternal reality where God dwells with His people forever, as seen in the New Testament.

 

[andy700700]

Deuteronomy 28:58-68
New International Version
58 If you do not carefully follow all the words of this law, which are written in this book, and do not revere this glorious and awesome name—the Lord your God— 59 the Lord will send fearful plagues on you and your descendants, harsh and prolonged disasters, and severe and lingering illnesses. 60 He will bring on you all the diseases of Egypt that you dreaded, and they will cling to you. 61 The Lord will also bring on you every kind of sickness and disaster not recorded in this Book of the Law, until you are destroyed. 62 You who were as numerous as the stars in the sky will be left but few in number, because you did not obey the Lord your God. 63 Just as it pleased the Lord to make you prosper and increase in number, so it will please him to ruin and destroy you. You will be uprooted from the land you are entering to possess.
64 Then the Lord will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other. There you will worship other gods—gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your ancestors have known. 65 Among those nations you will find no repose, no resting place for the sole of your foot. There the Lord will give you an anxious mind, eyes weary with longing, and a despairing heart. 66 You will live in constant suspense, filled with dread both night and day, never sure of your life. 67 In the morning you will say, “If only it were evening!” and in the evening, “If only it were morning!”—because of the terror that will fill your hearts and the sights that your eyes will see. 68 The Lord will send you back in ships to Egypt on a journey I said you should never make again. There you will offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you.

 

[faithlife]

Was Jesus Jewish?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Heaven and earth as we know it is not everlasting.
The only everlasting blessing is in Christ.

I'm quoting what the Word says.

 

[Beekeeper]

Was Jesus Jewish?

Jesus is the king of the Jews and salvation is of the Jews (John 4:22).
That would make Him the best definition of Jewishness possible.
That would also mean that it is outstandingly un-Jewish to not believe in Jesus (John 3:18).
Rabbinic Judaism is Gentile in origin and does not define the Jews.
Romans 2:28

 

[Beekeeper]

I'm quoting what the Word says.

That is good as long as you understand that the fulfillment of all the everlasting promises is in Jesus Christ.