Israel.

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Its a presumption that I am loathe to make for all the obvious reasons, but yes, you are correct.

If it helps, just know we're not dealing with Christianity. It's a new religion formed from a hollowed out Christianity in which venerating Israel is the most holy sacrament.

 

[John1335]

View attachment 282848

And so it is sometimes.

Those of us who love the Lord spend a great deal of time in reflection upon His ministry, His person, His purpose, His Love, the days and hours leading up to His arrest, the false accusations, the torture, and of course His unfathomably dark and lonely hours hanging on that tree.

In the last few years however,
I have also become painfully aware that Calvary was not the entirety of His sacrifice, but merely its crux and culmination. From the moment He came up out of the Jordan waters, the Spirit descending upon Him and Him alone, as a dove, where it would remain for the rest of His incarnation, His entire humble yet glorious existence was a sacrifice.

When the Lord Jesus commands us to take up our cross and follow Him daily, He is asking nothing more or less from us than that which He has already accomplished. He carried His cross not just from the steps of Pilate's court, but all the way from the banks of the Jordan River.

He often retired to a quiet place of prayer where He could seek the face of his Father, as would be expected of such a just and holy man, for He was indeed a man. But I have come to believe, that He also did so out of a great need for refuge, for comfort and solace, as in His day to day life He already bore the full weight of sin and sorrow for every creature He encountered, for very creation itself, for His creation, and that burden is beyond my ability to grasp or even begin to put into words.

Oh what a Savior. My Kinsmen Redeemer. The Lover of my soul.

He is far more worthy of our worship than even those of us who love Him dearly could ever possibly imagine.

 

[John1335]

If it helps, just know we're not dealing with Christianity. It's a new religion formed from a hollowed out Christianity in which venerating Israel is the most holy sacrament.

Its no help at all, but a verifiably true and accurate assessment nonetheless.

 

[Psalm1]

Brother, it is brother correct?
Thank you for these words of wisdom, I should have heeded them sooner.

I've been here a whole day, maybe two, and I am already so grieved in my spirit that I don't know how to express it.

The word of God is so crystal clear, and yet they deny every single aspect of the Gospel.

His Redemption, the Atonement, the Fatherhood of God, the New Covenant in His Blood, His Sacrifice, His High Holy Priesthood, and so much more I can't even think of right now.

They talk incessantly of replacement theology, when it is they themselves that have replaced Christ with Israel, truth for lies, the Gospel Mystery for a dime store fantasy fiction that even Joseph Smith could not have dreamed up.

This is satanic, its not a doctrinal dispute, its pure evil, its spiritual pride and so much worse than that, its madness, and the level of projection is off the charts.

They aren't even capable of entertaining the notion that they have been mislead, nor will they dare to search the scriptures for themselves for any opposing argument, and even when those scriptures are placed right before their very eyes, they will not see.

They cannot see. They hate the Truth, they hate Arabs and Muslims, they hate their brothers and sisters who cry for peace and weep for murdered women and children, they slander and obfuscate and lie. And I am beside myself because of them.

I will speak no more on this subject, and ignore every last one of them.

We need a space, those of us who have not succumbed to this deception, where we can lift one another up and rejoice and edify one another in the Spirit of Christ and love and truth.

I'm open to any suggestions you might have.

Yes.
You and others are so far off you do really need your own compartment to encourage your deal together.

 

[John1335]

Yes.
You and others are so far off you do really need your own compartment to encourage your deal together.

And I absolutely love it when you guys cone right out and identify yourselves before posting page after page of nonsensical scripture twisting and hateful accusations etc etc.
Makes the whole ignore process so much easier.
Thank you and God bless.

 

[John1335]

False. The land is heavenly. Its the heavenly inheritance. Ps 37:11,18

11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

18 The Lord knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever.

CP 1 Pet 1:4

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

Same inheritance for same people

Abraham for his inheritance wasn't interested in a literial earthly land inheritance, but heavenly

Heb 11:8,13-16

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.


13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country/land.

15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

16 But now they desire a better country/land, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

See that ? The Land inheritance is heavenly ! You have it all wrong

It was earthly and heavenly, physical and spiritual, as many prophecies and promises are.
This particular promise had an earthly fulfillment, Abraham's descendants did possess every bit of the promised land at one time, and they did what they always did, rejected God and got themselves carried away into captivity. The land promise was in fact fulfilled, and they lost it. God kept His end of the bargain, Israel did not. And then of course, as you know, Christ fulfilled the spiritual side of the matter.

 

[HeIsHere]

Being one of God's people has always been through faith. Circumcision was but one part of the obedience that comes through faith - the first step (for a male) in obeying the whole of the law, which was required for natural Israel. Other simple examples (for all, not just males) were not committing adultery, and not murdering. The easiest demonstration that circumcision was not the be-all-and-end-all when it came to natural Israel is righteous women, who obviously couldn't be circumcised. I've given examples of old Testament saints who were around before the circumcision covenant, and Abraham, who was explicitly made righteous for believing God while yet uncircumcised.

The closest example of a non-Israelite believer I can think of was Naaman. Note that Elisha didn't say to Naaman - "Oh, before you go, you better quickly get circumcised too". He simply said "Go in peace". God doesn't save us because of our works. It's possible Naaman started to obey more of God's law later on (sanctification), but I find it hard to believe a man of God would say to an unbeliever who had just professed a wish to become a worshipper of the true God to "go in peace", if the recent unbeliever was still damned until he was circumcised.

2 Kings 5:11 - 19
But Naaman was wroth, and went away, and said, Behold, I thought, He will surely come out to me, and stand, and call on the name of the Lord his God, and strike his hand over the place, and recover the leper.
Are not Abana and Pharpar, rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? may I not wash in them, and be clean? So he turned and went away in a rage.
And his servants came near, and spake unto him, and said, My father, if the prophet had bid thee do some great thing, wouldest thou not have done it? how much rather then, when he saith to thee, Wash, and be clean?
Then went he down, and dipped himself seven times in Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God: and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean.
And he returned to the man of God, he and all his company, and came, and stood before him: and he said, Behold, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel: now therefore, I pray thee, take a blessing of thy servant.
But he said, As the Lord liveth, before whom I stand, I will receive none. And he urged him to take it; but he refused.
And Naaman said, Shall there not then, I pray thee, be given to thy servant two mules' burden of earth? for thy servant will henceforth offer neither burnt offering nor sacrifice unto other gods, but unto the Lord.
In this thing the Lord pardon thy servant, that when my master goeth into the house of Rimmon to worship there, and he leaneth on my hand, and I bow myself in the house of Rimmon: when I bow down myself in the house of Rimmon, the Lord pardon thy servant in this thing.
And he said unto him, Go in peace. So he departed from him a little way.

The greatest threat to Christianity are the Christians.

 

[God-fearing]

It was earthly and heavenly, physical and spiritual, as many prophecies and promises are.
This particular promise had an earthly fulfillment, Abraham's descendants did possess every bit of the promised land at one time, and they did what they always did, rejected God and got themselves carried away into captivity. The land promise was in fact fulfilled, and they lost it. God kept His end of the bargain, Israel did not. And then of course, as you know, Christ fulfilled the spiritual side of the matter.

You've got one problem with that...specially the 15 verse.

Amo 9:11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

Amo 9:12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.

Amo 9:13 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.

Amo 9:14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.

Amo 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD

 

[Psalm1]

And I absolutely love it when you guys cone right out and identify yourselves before posting page after page of nonsensical scripture twisting and hateful accusations etc etc.
Makes the whole ignore process so much easier.
Thank you and God bless.

Pot < > kettle blue ribbon award.
Big time

 

[God-fearing]

Now here's the destruction which will happen.

The Destruction of Israel
Amo 9:1 I saw the Lord standing upon the altar: and he said, Smite the lintel of the door, that the posts may shake: and cut them in the head, all of them; and I will slay the last of them with the sword: he that fleeth of them shall not flee away, and he that escapeth of them shall not be delivered.

Amo 9:2 Though they dig into hell, thence shall mine hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down:

Amo 9:3 And though they hide themselves in the top of Carmel, I will search and take them out thence; and though they be hid from my sight in the bottom of the sea, thence will I command the serpent, and he shall bite them:

Amo 9:4 And though they go into captivity before their enemies, thence will I command the sword, and it shall slay them: and I will set mine eyes upon them for evil, and not for good.

Amo 9:5 And the Lord GOD of hosts is he that toucheth the land, and it shall melt, and all that dwell therein shall mourn: and it shall rise up wholly like a flood; and shall be drowned, as by the flood of Egypt.

Amo 9:6 It is he that buildeth his stories in the heaven, and hath founded his troop in the earth; he that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name.

Amo 9:7 Are ye not as children of the Ethiopians unto me, O children of Israel? saith the LORD. Have not I brought up Israel out of the land of Egypt? and the Philistines from Caphtor, and the Syrians from Kir?

Amo 9:8 Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD.

Amo 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

Amo 9:10 All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.

 

[Psalm1]

The greatest threat to Christianity are the Christians.

That's like saying the greatest threat to Jesus is Jesus

 

[HeIsHere]

That's like saying the greatest threat to Jesus is Jesus

No, Jesus was truth and did not sin, Christians fail.

 

[Psalm1]

No, Jesus was truth and did not sin, Christians fail.

No, Jesus was truth and did not sin, Christians fail.

The point is that anything is true if you overgeneralize it.
The church us not the enemy of the church.
You can say their is a poisonous portion of it...but no not the true faithful included.

 

[HeIsHere]

The point is that anything is true if you overgeneralize it.
The church us not the enemy of the church.
You can say their is a poisonous portion of it...but no not the true faithful included.

Sadly, even believers can become very indoctrinated, and in these times where ideas/false teachings can be dispersed and repeated over and over again world wide unlike ever before, I think it makes it even more plausible.

I suppose much depends on how one defines "Christianity."

Viewed from another angle it may be a good thing since much of "organized Christianity" is corrupted.

 

[God-fearing]

The greatest threat to Christianity are the Christians.

John1335 said .....that at least the Arabs believe Christ a prophet.
Giving them a higher standard than Israel. What kind of witness are these?
The greatest threat to Christianity is anti semitisim. Which has been before Jesus and currently gripped the world again.
A un provoked hatred proven by the young people taken to the streets who have no knowledge or experiences regarding Israel at all but became a voice of hatred and violence of a nation defending its self.
Compare the 2 wars which are front and center. Ukraine and Israel defends its self, which one is hated? Both were attacked.
Explain to me why Israel is so scrutinized and become a offense to many who but a few years ago wouldn't know where it was on a map.
Even now many have absolutely no idea what its all about or where it is.
Yet raise the flag and propaganda of there enemy for victory and promote and invite a terrorist government to over throw there country.

 

[Beekeeper]

You've got one problem with that...specially the 15 verse.

Amo 9:11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

Amo 9:12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.

Amo 9:13 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.

Amo 9:14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.

Amo 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD

Amos died in 745BC according to Wikipedia.
This is a long time before the Babylonian captivity.
Is it unfair to consider that he it speaking about the second temple restoration?
It seems odd that he would say such things about 1948, or that he would skip over a more significant event that is closer to his time?

I am grateful to you none the less that you bring your Biblical views to the table.
This whole thing would be more worth while if everyone did that.

 

[Beekeeper]

Now here's the destruction which will happen.

The Destruction of Israel
Amo 9:1 I saw the Lord standing upon the altar: and he said, Smite the lintel of the door, that the posts may shake: and cut them in the head, all of them; and I will slay the last of them with the sword: he that fleeth of them shall not flee away, and he that escapeth of them shall not be delivered.

Amo 9:2 Though they dig into hell, thence shall mine hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down:

Amo 9:3 And though they hide themselves in the top of Carmel, I will search and take them out thence; and though they be hid from my sight in the bottom of the sea, thence will I command the serpent, and he shall bite them:

Amo 9:4 And though they go into captivity before their enemies, thence will I command the sword, and it shall slay them: and I will set mine eyes upon them for evil, and not for good.

Amo 9:5 And the Lord GOD of hosts is he that toucheth the land, and it shall melt, and all that dwell therein shall mourn: and it shall rise up wholly like a flood; and shall be drowned, as by the flood of Egypt.

Amo 9:6 It is he that buildeth his stories in the heaven, and hath founded his troop in the earth; he that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his n

Amo 9:7 Are ye not as children of the Ethiopians unto me, O children of Israel? saith the LORD. Have not I brought up Israel out of the land of Egypt? and the Philistines from Caphtor, and the Syrians from Kir?

Amo 9:8 Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD.

Amo 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

Amo 9:10 All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.

And that is the first half of the chapter.
It describes events that happen BEFORE the restoration events in Amos 9:11-15.
The destruction of Jerusalem in the Babylonian captivity?
It seems obvious to me.

 

[God-fearing]

Amos died in 745BC according to Wikipedia.
This is a long time before the Babylonian captivity.
Is it unfair to consider that he it speaking about the second temple restoration?
It seems odd that he would say such things about 1948, or that he would skip over a more significant event that is closer to his time?

I am grateful to you none the less that you bring your Biblical views to the table.
This whole thing would be more worth while if everyone did that.

Question is when has Israel never been uprooted?

 

[Beekeeper]

Question is when has Israel never been uprooted?

Here is a passage that might be familiar to you:
HEBREWS 8:6

6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Paul speaks to the Hebrews about the kingdom of the Christ, but he refers to it as "a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah".
Notice also that He is also quoting from Jeremiah 31:31.
The passage here from Hebrews 8:8 is almost the same.
He could be quoting the Septuagint as he does sometimes, though I am not sure.

If we turn to Jeremiah 31:31 and read the passage up to v.36, we see that is leads to a very popular verse that is often used in defense of modern Israel:

Jeremiah 31:36 "If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever."

Please don't miss that Paul is using the passage in a completely different context.
The House of Israel here is just the kingdom of Christ, and remember that the Gentiles are also to be grafted into that kingdom.
I believe that the House of Israel, the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of Jesus are all one and the same.
It will never be uprooted, and never cease from being a nation before God forever.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

You've got one problem with that...specially the 15 verse.

Amo 9:11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

Amo 9:12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.

Amo 9:13 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.

Amo 9:14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.

Amo 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD

James said in Acts 15 that that prophecy was being fulfilled then before their eyes. Verse 15 is obviously looking forward to the culmination of that prophecy when Christ returns with all resurrected Israel to inhabit the land forever.

Do you believe James?