Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Cameron143]

Except you say they won't understand what you're on about so how can they hear?

They will if the Lord opens their hearts.

 

[Jordon]

Are you saying that the Christian reformed church of North America has distanced itself from TULIP?
What happens if they fail to persevere?

.......

another one of your statements darkening people minds with your dark mind

This is your constant theme

 

[Rufus]

A heart is hardened when one knows the truth and denies it.

Romans 1:
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

So "hardened" = "darkened"?

 

[Genez]

They will if the Lord opens their hearts.

Has he opened yours to the truth about the Rapture and the Millennium?
Scripture could not be clearer to an open mind.

He can open hearts... that slam shut in an instant.

 

[Rufus]

God's not willing that any should perish. God's will is not for any man to reject the gift of grace through Jesus Christ, but through man's own will, he rejects God's gift and ends up perishing.

If this were true, then we'd have a major doctrinal contradiction pertaining to God's power and sovereignty; for God plans and purposes CANNOT be thwarted or compromised by any of his creatures. Nothing is impossible with God per Jesus.

 

[Rufus]

In my experience of discussing God's Word online since 2010, I find that that those who do not use Scripture in discussion or use it very little do not know much about the Bible.

Those who regard God's Word as very pure will truly love it.

Psalm 119:140 KJV
Thy word is very pure therefore thy servant loveth it.

In short, you talk about that which you love.
Talking about a system using a string of verses out of context is not love of God's Word but a love of that system.
There is a diffference. I mean, when you have folks say that 2 Thessalonians 2:10 is a dark verse (i.e., a mystery verse) that should be a sign that they are simply ignoring parts of the Bible to make a man-made belief or system to work.
.....

Which is why you interpret 2Pet 3:9 out of its context, to cite but one passage.

 

[Genez]

another one of your statements darkening people minds with your dark mind

This is your constant theme

Yours is one of constant slimy evasiveness.
You have no fear of God.

You never answer anything you don't want to that way.
Though, in a courtroom, it would get a gavel slammed quickly by a judge...

No wonder Judge Judy has gotten the way she has.
She has seen too much of your kind over the years.

The Lord will be the Judge, who you will give you no place to hide.

I am looking forward to that day....

 

[Cameron143]

Has he opened yours to the truth about the Rapture and the Millennium?
Scripture could not be clearer to an open mind.

He can open hearts... that slam shut in an instant.

Shouldn't you be playing reindeer games this time of year and not trolling games?

 

[Genez]

another one of your statements darkening people minds with your dark mind

Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, ​

who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.​

​

You're in the Bible....​

 

[Rufus]

Nope, he allows people to perish who reject Jesus.

Which means God's WILL is actively involved in that decision!

 

[Genez]

Shouldn't you be playing reindeer games this time of year and not trolling games?

Why? You afraid I am competition for you?

What you really are is becoming more and more materialized the more you fabricate your answers.

I had you pegged instantly from the beginning.

You are not fooling anybody who is not fooled to begin with.

 

[Genez]

Which means God's WILL is actively involved in that decision!

But, not in making that decision.

 

[sawdust]

They will if the Lord opens their hearts.

I thought you said they had to born again to understand? So they have to be born again and have open heart surgery and then what? They choose to believe or does God make them believe with His irresistible grace?

 

[Magenta]

Which is why you interpret 2Pet 3:9 out of its context, to cite but one passage.

These people including the nasty B_H strip the gospel of its meaning to say it is either, 1. not a spiritual thing
of God and/or 2. not one of the deep things of God. The gospel is a deeply spiritual matter, and those who deny
this truth deny the Scriptures they pretend to love while they contradict and deny what is explicitly articulated.
Why they want to deny that there is such a thing as a natural man (unregenerated) becomes clear with all their twisting.

1 Timothy 3 verse 16 ~ By common confession, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was proclaimed among the nations, was believed in throughout the world, was taken up in glory.

 

[Genez]

I thought you said they had to born again to understand? So they have to be born again and have open heart surgery and then what? They choose to believe or does God make them believe with His irresistible grace?

You just had to say that.
It was irresistible.

 

[Rufus]

2 Peter 3:9 KJV
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness;
but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

In 2 Peter 3:9:

The Greek word underlying the English word "all": πάντας
Transliteration: pantas
Part of Speech: Adjective (accusative masculine plural)
Meaning: all, every, everyone

Beza 1598 Greek that underlies the KJV for the English word "all":

View attachment 282657

Source:
https://archive.org/details/1598-beza-greek-latin-nt/page/n1093/mode/2up

Truly God is not willing that any should perish but that ALL should come to repentance.
πάντας (pantas) is not referring to a select few or group (the Elect) but to "all," or "everyone."

The context of the chapter also supports this as well.

Contextual Point #1. - 2 Peter 2:20–22 proves that the people returning to sin had real opportunity for repentance

These people have escaped the pollutions of the world
through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ then become entangled again.

If repentance belongs only to the elect, these non elect apostates never had escape. Peter refutes that idea by stating plainly that they escaped and turned back. Therefore repentance is presented as something offered universally, not to a secret subset.

2 Peter 2:20–22 proves that the people returning to sin had real opportunity for repentance.
These people have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ then become entangled again. If repentance belongs only to the elect, these non elect apostates never had escape. Peter refutes that idea by stating plainly that they escaped and turned back. Therefore repentance is presented as something offered universally, not to a secret subset.

Contextual Point #2. - 2 Peter 2:1 teaches that even the ones who perish were “bought”

“But there were false prophets also among the people … even denying the Lord that bought them.”

This is not limited atonement.
These are lost people who perish, yet Peter says they were “bought.”

If Peter believed in a limited, elect-only repentance, he could not say that Christ bought those who deny Him and bring swift destruction upon themselves.

This verse alone shows Peter believes the scope of the Lord’s work extends to all men, even those who refuse it.

2 Peter 2:1 teaches that even the ones who perish were “bought”
“But there were false prophets also among the people … even denying the Lord that bought them.”
This is not limited atonement.
These are lost people who perish, yet Peter says they were “bought.”
If Peter believed in a limited, elect-only repentance, he could not say that Christ bought those who deny Him and bring swift destruction upon themselves.
This verse alone shows Peter believes the scope of the Lord’s work extends to all men, even those who refuse it.

Contextual Point #3: - Peter intentionally brings up Noah to establish a universal pattern of God’s patience

2 Peter 2:5 KJV
“And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly.”

Peter chooses Noah for a reason.

He is not merely giving a historical example.
He is creating a pattern.
He is showing how God deals with mankind before a universal judgment.

Two details matter greatly.

(1) “the old world”

This word is universal.
It does not refer to the elect only.
It does not refer to a small group.
It refers to all mankind living at that time.

(2) Noah was “a preacher of righteousness”

Noah was preaching righteousness to the same “world of the ungodly.”

This means the preaching was aimed at all people.
Noah did not preach only to the elect.
He preached repentance to all humanity even though only eight responded.

God extending warning and preaching to the entire world proves His patience was toward the whole world.
So God is long suffering to "us-ward" (all of humanity) today.

So the "us-ward" in 2 Peter 3:9 is a reference to all men universally and not just to the Elect.

If “us-ward” meant a select elect class, then verse 9 would say:

God is not willing that any of the elect should perish.

Yet in Calvinism, the elect were never in any danger of perishing.

Therefore “us-ward” must refer to the human subjects of judgment.
....Truly

.....

2Pet 3:9 reads:

2 Peter 3:10
9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any [of you] should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
ESV

I see that exegesis is not your forte. Notice the red bolded part. The text does not say "not wishing that anyone in the world should perish". But my clarifying edit fits the bill nicely, since "any" refers back to its antecedent "you" (Peter's original audience). And this is why Peter wrote that God is patient towards THEM -- not the world. It makes zero sense for God to be patient towards his saints when it's the world that he supposedly doesn't want to perish.

By the way, 2Peter's original audience was not the world. It is God's elect, i.e. the "you" in 2Pet 3:9.

 

[Genez]

Which is why you interpret 2Pet 3:9 out of its context, to cite but one passage.

2 Peter 3:9

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness,
but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but
that all should reach repentance.

If God makes it happen, sovereignly?
It would be instantaneous and without waiting.

 

[Jordon]

Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, ​

who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.​

​

You're in the Bible....​

I believe that scripture its just you don't

 

[Genez]

I believe that scripture its just you don't

It's fun making believe I am a child again. Thanks!

 

[sawdust]

You just had to say that.
It was irresistible.

It happens when you're full of cuteness.