Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Cameron143]

But, He does not want them to perish...

You have a hard time swallowing that.
Yet, you claim He is sovereign and does all as He desires.

The key here is?
He wants man to have free will.

Why?
So there can be a genuine interaction between man and God in love.

For that reason, God is pleased that He succeeded in creating a real life.
A life that is not free to reject Him is not a real life!

.......

You changed the verbiage to want from willing. I agree that God's desire is for man to be saved. I'm speaking to a particular verse that people often misuse. God is actually willing to allow people to perish. He may take no pleasure in it, but He willingly allows it.

 

[Blain]

That is a Calvinism lie.

Show me the verses they used to justify that stand, and I'll show you how they failed the context test in determining its meaning.

A Calvinist lie? I fail to see how that is the case, after all does the scriptures not say that he desires all to come to the knowledge and truth?

 

[BillyBob]

Liberal politicians do it all the time.

That's why they came up with fact checkers! They wanted to hire cv5 but he/she was unavailable at the time.

 

[Blain]

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.

John 16 8-9
And He, when He comes, will convict the world regarding sin, and righteousness, and judgment: 9regarding sin, because they do not believe in Me;

Acts 16:31~~~believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved......YOU AND YOUR HOUSEHOLD......(ANYONE AND ALL CAN BELIEVE for salvation.)

2 Cor 6:2
For He says: “In an acceptable time I have heard you, And in the day of salvation I have helped you.” Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.

Forgive my ignorance but what are you trying to say with these verses because they seem to be saying different things they appear to be speaking on different subjects

 

[Jordon]

Jordon... I thank God, I see you as one who thinks yet like a little kid.

Otherwise... I would worry about you.

You offer very little of real substance.
You tell stories.
Because you do not realize that what you are attempting to deal with is an actual reality,
and not a game to play.

.....

your just filling yourself as always, and this just another statement of you being belittling with your sad behaviour.

And just another of many 1000s of posts that question my belief by you and others, but don't question your own

My faith is given it's grounded in his word.

I enjoy my walk, I express my walk.

You and the other mockers here don't do that much.

You and others just question and ridicule other people's walks to make yourself look good and please the other mockers like you.

 

[Rufus]

Context: "Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved." (Romans 10:1).
So Romans 9:18 is not talking about universal unconditional election of mankind.
It's talking about the nation of Israel and their rejection of their Messiah.
2 Peter 3:9 says that God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Of course, it is talking about "unconditional election of mankind". Last I checked Paul begins his argument off his teaching in Romans 8, and he uses OT examples (what else could he use!?) to make his point that election is entirely in God's purview.

And why do you continue to ignore the context of 2Pet 3:9? God is longsuffering/patient to Peter's original audience not wanting any of THEM to perish, since they were in danger of being swayed by a plethora of false teachers.

 

[Rufus]

In order to live under God's grace, you'll have to be merciful as well. Like if someone slaps you on the face, you'll have to allow them to slap the other side. And if they take your cloak, you'll have to offer him something else to take.

The burden of the new covenant is light and easy but our pride gets i our way making it hard to do

Matthew 5:7
Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.

This is why God gives grace only to the humble whom he elected in eternity in Christ.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

So Noah was a preacher of righteousness in his day.
He was preaching to everyone around him.
This does not make any sense in the upside-down world of Calvinism because God would have been wasting Noah's time preaching to those who were determined to damnation.



....

 

[Rufus]

And God is not willing that any should perish...

Close but no cigar. God is not willing that any of Peter's original audience should perish since God's patience was toward them, not towards the entire world in the distributive sense.

 

[Genez]

Why would anyone tell an unbeliever that? Who of us knows if God predestined them to be saved?

God predestined us BECAUSE He knew we would be saved.
Not, to save us.

If God wanted Moses to become the Bride of Christ?
God would have predestined for Moses to be alive during the Church age, so when he believed?
Moses would be a member of the body of Christ.

You're getting it straight, sir.

 

[Genez]

So Noah was a preacher of righteousness in his day.
He was preaching to everyone around him.
This does not make any sense in the upside-down world of Calvinism because God would have been wasting Noah's time preaching to those who were determined to damnation.



....

Reason can not work, when an error has become long-established in a person's thinking.

One must back track to when the error was first accepted as truth.
Then, we must deal with that.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Of course, it is talking about "unconditional election of mankind". Last I checked Paul begins his argument off his teaching in Romans 8, and he uses OT examples (what else could he use!?) to make his point that election is entirely in God's purview.

And why do you continue to ignore the context of 2Pet 3:9? God is longsuffering/patient to Peter's original audience not wanting any of THEM to perish,

You are not reading the passsage in Romans 11 that refutes your false misunderstanding on Romans 9.

As for the context in 2 Peter 3:9, I already provided three points contextually.
You appeared to gloss over the points I made.

since they were in danger of being swayed by a plethora of false teachers.

So you are saying the Elect (i.e., God's chosen) can be in danger to false teachers?
If so, this refutes the idea of perseverance of the saints in Calvinism.


....

 

[Rufus]

So Noah was a preacher of righteousness in his day.
He was preaching to everyone around him.
This does not make any sense in the upside-down world of Calvinism because God would have been wasting Noah's time preaching to those who were determined to damnation.
....

And it makes even less sense in the absurd world of FWT since FWers believe God's foreknowledge always = PRESCIENCE! So, tell me, sir, how did it make any sense to Noah to preach the gospel to rest of mankind when God knew in eternity (through his crystal ball gazing) that that effort would be 100% futile!?

 

[Genez]

Happy Thanksgiving to you too.

You are highly shielded by denial and delusion.
You can no longer see the obvious.

You have become an altered mind who has forgotten how to be who you could have been.

 

[Jordon]

A Calvinist lie? I fail to see how that is the case, after all does the scriptures not say that he desires all to come to the knowledge and truth?

it's another one of there hypocritical remarks, they have Calvies.down as being determinists but the reality is there determining everything including there salvation and other people's.

There the worst determinists here. Or shall we say the worst calvinists here

The true Calvies are not like that, the true Calvies denomination is the Christian reformed church of north America who preach his living active word can save anyone who will be believe, and they also pray for the holy spirit to fill people.

There just people sounding of with an axe to grind friend that's all they are

 

[sawdust]

How hard is it to tell someone about Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection?

Except you say they won't understand what you're on about so how can they hear?

 

[Genez]

You are not reading the passsage in Romans 11 that refutes your false misunderstanding on Romans 9.

As for the context in 2 Peter 3:9, I already provided three points contextually.
You appeared to gloss over the points I made.



So you are saying the Elect (i.e., God's chosen) can be in danger to false teachers?
If so, this refutes the idea of perseverance of the saints in Calvinism.


....

Big mistake...
You are trying to reason.

He most likely sees you as unregenerated, and functioning as an agent of Satan trying to deceive him.

 

[Rufus]

You are not reading the passsage in Romans 11 that refutes your false misunderstanding on Romans 9.

As for the context in 2 Peter 3:9, I already provided three points contextually.
You appeared to gloss over the points I made.



So you are saying the Elect (i.e., God's chosen) can be in danger to false teachers?
If so, this refutes the idea of perseverance of the saints in Calvinism.
....

Of course, they can! Hence the WARNINGS in scripture for the saints to persevere in the faith. Yes, God PRESERVES (keeps) his saints) while the saints capitalize on that precious grace by persevering.

Contextually, you're way off the mark on 2Pet 3:9! You need to come up with a rational, intelligent and coherent explanation as to why God isn't patient towards the entire world! Why is God's patience directed only to Peter's original audience if God's focus is not on them? Who is the "you" in 2Pet 3:9? The world at large?

 

[Genez]

The true Calvies are not like that, the true Calvies denomination is the Christian reformed church of north America who preach his living active word can save anyone who will be believe, and they also pray for the holy spirit to fill people.

Are you saying that the Christian reformed church of North America has distanced itself from TULIP?
What happens if they fail to persevere?

.......

 

[Genez]

Of course, they can! Hence the WARNINGS in scripture for the saints to persevere in the faith. Yes, God PRESERVES (keeps) his saints) while the saints capitalize on that precious grace by persevering.

In what way do they persevere?
By gutting it out by grace?