The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[pinebeach]

But we don't make void the law..

The law is void for those who accept Christ and His atonement, through His blood. I don't think you know very much if anything about the foreshadowing of that fact in the OT. If someone cannot accept the perfection of Jesus completing the requirements of the law, and they insist the law is still part of a believer's life, I would question their salvation.

God does not justify through the law. The law only brings condemnation and awareness of the sin you commit.


Romans 3:19-20
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the law. For the law merely brings awareness of sin.

 

[Hallstone]

But there will be believers sent away because they were practicing lawlessness. What about them? What do people think about this? What do they think that He meant by saying lawlessness?

 

[soulprobe]

I will not say yes or no because the bible says... Mat 7:1-2
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

I will not judge.

I have no problem warning Christians. or anyone else, of the consequences for continuing murdering or lying and remain unrepentant, that they will "have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone" because it's in the scripture coming from Jesus Himself. Revelation 21:8. That doesn't make me their judge that makes me their admonisher. You seem to be conveniently confused between admonishment and judgment when it comes to warning about the consequences of willfully not observing the Sabbath. But as I said, you already have answered "yes" in a round about way whether you admit it or not.

 

[Inquisitor]

The authority of the law

The law points out that we are sinners and sin = death...

If we are crucified with Christ...
Christ paid the penalty of the law for us.
The authority of the law no longer holds us guilty. We are dead to the consequences of the law.. the law no longer holds us guilty because of the payment that Jesus made.

We have been released from the law...

Does that mean we continue to sin because of Jesus's grace?

Rom 6:1-2
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Should we that have been freed from the penalty of the law (dead to the law) continue to transgress it anyway?
No

Rom 6:14-16
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Notice that obedience is still required, but it is because we are children or servants of Christ.
Sin is the transgression of the law....

In the same chapter Romans 7 which you are quoting please understand these verses

Rom 7:7-14
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Without the law sin is dead ... we don't know what sin is without the law...

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

The law is good
Sin is the enemy

We are saved from sin by Jesus's death. He paid the price of sin so the penalty of transgressing the law no longer applies.

Sure we are free, released, no longer under, and made dead to the penalty of the law but only if you are saved in Christ. Those that are not saved will be condemned by the law as sinners and death will be the result..
The law is not void. People are still guilty today.

How can you transgress the law when your not under the law?

That does not make sense.

 

[soulprobe]

I am sorry if I misunderstood and mis-discerned your nature. I intended to express agreement with you in my post #222,
so I was surprised that you disagreed with viewing the OT land of Canaan as foreshadowing the NT/NC resurrection to heaven.
Can you clarify? Thanks.

Why are you surprised? Has every Christian been taught to believe that the two scriptures I posted, one from the OT and the other from the NT, are referring to the same group and same event?

 

[TMS]

I really have no respect for people who what you are doing here. I never said a thing about a moral law. If you think creating false witness against someone is moral, then I would tell you that you have a problem with that law as well as trying to keep the commandments. You have posted about what you call the moral law quite a bit. I have said absolutley nothing about a moral law

I have clearly stated in many places that the moral law is the 10 commandments

Are you offended by what I said.

I was just stating a fact.

I gave bible verses and if you agree you can say so, if you disagree you can explain why you disagreed.

You seem to get offended and attack the person posting the details...
You should start posting some bible verses to show they are not correct.

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

 

[TMS]

How can you transgress the law when your not under the law?

That does not make sense.

Let's use one of the 10...
Exo 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.

What is the penalty for sinning? Any sin?

Eternal death. Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death;

If I'm guilty of sin which I am.
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

I sit before God guilty of stealing. And I have no way to pay my debt, I can do nothing to save myself of the penalty..

But Jesus steps up and saves me by presenting His blood.. will Jesus' blood pay the debt? Yes.

Rom 3:24-25
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

I'm free from the laws penalty.. by God's grace I am no longer in debt.

At this point I'm not under the law.. but can I continue to steal?

Can I thank Jesus for His blood and grace and continue to steal?

Hopefully not.

The law does not disapear. It is always there pointing out what is sin.

We are not under the law when we take the blood of Jesus, this blood removes the sin from us so that we are not held as guilty under the law.

But the Bible is clear that we should not use this gift to continue in sin...

Rom 6:15-16
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 

[TMS]

The law is void for those who accept Christ and His atonement, through His blood. I don't think you know very much if anything about the foreshadowing of that fact in the OT. If someone cannot accept the perfection of Jesus completing the requirements of the law, and they insist the law is still part of a believer's life, I would question their salvation.

God does not justify through the law. The law only brings condemnation and awareness of the sin you commit.


Romans 3:19-20
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the law. For the law merely brings awareness of sin.

I have said many times that keeping the law will not save us.. I have said many times that it is Jesus and the GIFT of His righteousness that saves us.

The law brings awareness of sin. True

With all of these points "do we make the law void"?

Do you think we should make the law void because of the grace of Jesus?

 

[4urenlightment]

Spirits are here to use our bodies to mold us into their images. God made the commandments to help with our survival among a world of darkness.
Since darkness is in the world, God has to show us what foods to eat that'll not have any harmful effects to us and how to rebuke evil thoughts that come into our minds, so we don't hurt one another. Without God's guidance we will fall into chaos and will eventually become desolate.

God used Abraham to start spreading His leaven (Ways) throughout the world. he chosen Abraham because he had some of his qualities like being devoted to Sarah which he could have chosen another wife that'll bare him a child.
In those days they can have as many wives as possible they can take care of. But he chosen only one which Jesus made a remark to the people, by saying in the beginning God made one wife to a man and to keep forever, that He was hinting to them that their ways weren't His ways at all.

And so, the commands were to help guide us back into the way we were designed to be, to be in the image of God, doing everything that God desires (Will)


Deuteronomy 5:33
Walk in obedience to all that the Lord your God has commanded you, so that you may live and prosper and prolong your days in the land that you will possess.

Matthew 19:8
Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.

Matthew 6:10
your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

 

[mailmandan]

Very vague answer. You said some people agree with Jesus and some agree with Paul. Exactly what do you believe? Be specific because this vague response is generated to make it sound you are all about Jesus and yet you are also all about the commandments.

Very vague answer indeed. The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

 

[pinebeach]

I have said many times that keeping the law will not save us.. I have said many times that it is Jesus and the GIFT of His righteousness that saves us.

The law brings awareness of sin. True

With all of these points "do we make the law void"?

Do you think we should make the law void because of the grace of Jesus?

Non sequitur, leading question and false assumptions.

 

[pinebeach]

I have clearly stated in many places that the moral law is the 10 commandments

Are you offended by what I said.

I was just stating a fact

I gave bible verses and if you agree you can say so, if you disagree you can explain why you disagreed.

You seem to get offended and attack the person posting the details...
You should start posting some bible verses to show they are not correct.

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Again at the risk of boring people who actually pay attention, I have said zero, nada, zilch, goose egg, rien, ie not a word, about a moral law so another leading question. I have entire Bible, more than one actually, and nothing in it agrees with your commandment observations and salvation through Christ as being mutually effective but better when applied together by the applicant.

Well, you have also resorted to personal commentary against me which is a sad tactic of those who cannot answer from scripture as to why we all should still observe the 10 commandments and with God's help, obey them even though Jesus died because no one can.

As to the untruthful little accusation from you that I don't post Bible verses, as I stated some time back, anyone can post Bible verses and in fact, do so all the time. Out of context, twisted and just glaringly misused as both yourself and your friend vassal do.
But let's check and see if I don't post scripture. Well I checked and found that I do post scripture most of the time. Perhaps you don't recognize scripture if not posted by you or vassal?

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Well, we may have found one of the reasons you appear to have difficulty with comprehension. You have forgotten the rest of the armor. And, you do not use the sword very well and have 2 different helmets on your head....one the gospel, the other a heavy load of commandments.

 

[pinebeach]

But the Bible is clear that we should not use this gift to continue in sin...

It certainly is and I truly wish you would get it in your noggin that no one has said otherwise and stop parroting things without understanding that you are not representing what others say, but rather you just continue to defend what does not need defending.

It seems vassal has some found some fertile ground in you. He says he is not a Christian. You ok agreeing with him all the time in consideration of that?

 

[Inquisitor]

Let's use one of the 10...
Exo 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.

What is the penalty for sinning? Any sin?

Eternal death. Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death;

If I'm guilty of sin which I am.
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

I sit before God guilty of stealing. And I have no way to pay my debt, I can do nothing to save myself of the penalty..

But Jesus steps up and saves me by presenting His blood.. will Jesus' blood pay the debt? Yes.

Rom 3:24-25
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

I'm free from the laws penalty.. by God's grace I am no longer in debt.

At this point I'm not under the law.. but can I continue to steal?

Can I thank Jesus for His blood and grace and continue to steal?

Hopefully not.

The law does not disapear. It is always there pointing out what is sin.

We are not under the law when we take the blood of Jesus, this blood removes the sin from us so that we are not held as guilty under the law.

But the Bible is clear that we should not use this gift to continue in sin...

Rom 6:15-16
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Gentiles were never under the law, fact.

Gentiles can not be held accountable for transgression of the written law, fact.

It is essential to understand that Jesus primarily came to save the Jewish people from their
transgression of the Law. Since the Gentiles never had the Law, saving the Gentiles from their
transgressions of the Law was not what Jesus came to do. But, God included the Gentiles after
He instituted the New Covenant.

Gentiles are held to a different version of how sin is defined according to Romans.

Romans 2:15
In that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and
their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them.

You know what "law" that is written on their heart is; don't you TMS?

Ephesians 2:12
Remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel,
and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

 

[GWH]

Why are you surprised? Has every Christian been taught to believe that the two scriptures I posted, one from the OT and the other from the NT, are referring to the same group and same event?

Actually, no. My Baptist upbringing taught me very little about doctrines other than the Gospel,
so I learned about OT foreshadowing, prefiguring and the proto-gospel pretty much on my own from reading the Bible.
Do you disagree with that aspect of hermeneutics or harmonizing the OT & NT?
(Cf. Col. 2:17, Heb. 8:5, 10:1, Gal. 24-31, John 16:25, Rom. 10:13-18, Col. 1:23, Gal. 3:8 and the parables of Jesus.)

Don't such Scriptures teach us to view at least some OT groups and events or stories analogically or allegorically?

 

[TMS]

Actually, no. My Baptist upbringing taught me very little about doctrines other than the Gospel,
so I learned about OT foreshadowing, prefiguring and the proto-gospel pretty much on my own from reading the Bible.
Do you disagree with that aspect of hermeneutics or harmonizing the OT & NT?
(Cf. Col. 2:17, Heb. 8:5, 10:1, Gal. 24-31, John 16:25, Rom. 10:13-18, Col. 1:23, Gal. 3:8 and the parables of Jesus.)

Don't such Scriptures teach us to view at least some OT groups and events or stories analogically or allegorically?

The old testament has so such in it that is relevant to today... the way God did things is amazing and I'm constantly seeing how the old testament stories and teachings are fulfilled in multiple ways.

I believe we will never exhaust the lessons we can learn in the old (and new) testament.

Eg .... why did God close the door of the ark 7 days before it started to rain ... ?

Gen 7:16 KJV And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.
Gen 7:9-10 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah. 10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

It has a meaning today.. that God will close the door of salvation... those that are saved are saved those outside are locked out.. and the saved will need to exercise faith for a time. Faith that the final events are about to start (Flood of destruction..)

The old testament has so much valuable wisdom for today.
All scripture is profitable ...
2Ti 3:16-17 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[TMS]

Gentiles were never under the law, fact.

Gentiles can not be held accountable for transgression of the written law, fact.

It is essential to understand that Jesus primarily came to save the Jewish people from their
transgression of the Law. Since the Gentiles never had the Law, saving the Gentiles from their
transgressions of the Law was not what Jesus came to do. But, God included the Gentiles after
He instituted the New Covenant.

Gentiles are held to a different version of how sin is defined according to Romans.

Romans 2:15
In that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and
their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them.

You know what "law" that is written on their heart is; don't you TMS?

Ephesians 2:12
Remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel,
and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

We are all one in Christ... jew or gentile we are all grafted into the Jewish rootstock.

The same laws apply to us all. God saves us all in the same way.

Paul was writting to the Gentiles in Rome... Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:12-13
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 13:8-10
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

As followers of Jesus we are all under the same covenant. Regardless of nationality.

 

[GWH]

The old testament has so such in it that is relevant to today... the way God did things is amazing and I'm constantly seeing how the old testament stories and teachings are fulfilled in multiple ways.

I believe we will never exhaust the lessons we can learn in the old (and new) testament.

Eg .... why did God close the door of the ark 7 days before it started to rain ... ?

Gen 7:16 KJV And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.
Gen 7:9-10 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah. 10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

It has a meaning today.. that God will close the door of salvation... those that are saved are saved those outside are locked out.. and the saved will need to exercise faith for a time. Faith that the final events are about to start (Flood of destruction..)

The old testament has so much valuable wisdom for today.
All scripture is profitable ...
2Ti 3:16-17 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

I agree, and citing OT verses/teachings that are still relevant is the purpose of the thread called Key OT Teachings.
Not sure if the instance you cited is definite enough for adding, but I guess the NT verification might be in Hebrews 3:7-19
where it refers to "Today" being the opportunity for salvation, comparing it to the Israelites entering Canaan. Hmm.
I will add it to the website. Thanks!

 

[TMS]

It certainly is and I truly wish you would get it in your noggin that no one has said otherwise and stop parroting things without understanding that you are not representing what others say, but rather you just continue to defend what does not need defending.

It seems vassal has some found some fertile ground in you. He says he is not a Christian. You ok agreeing with him all the time in consideration of that?

I won't go back and quote what people have said, I will just ask you.

Do you think the 10 commandment law as a whole was nailed to the cross?

Do you think there is a difference between the law that Moses wrote in a book and the law that God wrote on stone?

Do you think we are under the ceremonial laws, the earthly sacrifices and levitcal priesthood, etc today?

Do you think we are sinning when we transgress the 10 commandments?

Do you think we are all one in Christ, and all that are adopted into Christ's family are spiritual Israel today?

 

[TMS]

.your words ...."Even though Jesus died because no one can."

You said this but I think you misunderstand it.

True.. we are all sinners and we have all sinned. No one can say they are free from sin. But to say no one can stop sinning is a lack of faith...

But can we move onward and upward?

Can we overcome?

Can we have victory in Christ?

if you believe we can not overcome sin, you will not overcome sin..

I believe that by faith in Jesus we can.
we have wonderful promises that say we can and... I BELIEVE JESUS CAN DO IT. ... I believe He is powerful enough to create in me a new heart. I believe in the power of Jesus to give me the victory.

Do you have faith in Jesus? Do you believe that Jesus can restore His image in you?

Peter did the impossible by walking on the water while he had faith in Jesus..
When we are looking to Jesus with faith we will not sink ether.

You are saying we can not keep the ten commandments even with the power of Jesus who did keep them perfectly?

Well, you have also resorted to personal commentary against me which is a sad tactic of those who cannot answer from scripture as to why we all should still observe the 10 commandments and with God's help, obey them even though Jesus died because no one can.

"No one can"....

Rom 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Are you making provision for the flesh by saying we can not.. no one can.

The entire book of Revelation is written to the seven churches of asia. .. To him that overcometh..

Eph 3:19-20
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. 20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

2Co 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Is it a "good thing" to overcome and keep the commandments? Is it a GOOD THING for God to give us the victory and power to obey the 10 commandments?
The 10 commandments are Holy and Just and Just and Good, and Spiritual.
Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Have faith and ask ...

Phi 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
Mat 9:29 (Jesus said), According to your faith be it unto you.

Where is your faith when you say. "No one can"