The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[GWH]

"Disagreeable nature"....? So all who do not agree that the OT land of Canaan = heaven where God has His Throne have a "disagreeable nature"? 99.99% of posts on religious and political discussion boards are disagreements... that's the nature of these platforms. You may want to spend more time on forums dedicated to various hobbies... I'm sure you'll find lots of agreement on those.

I am sorry if I misunderstood and mis-discerned your nature. I intended to express agreement with you in my post #222,
so I was surprised that you disagreed with viewing the OT land of Canaan as foreshadowing the NT/NC resurrection to heaven.
Can you clarify? Thanks.

 

[vassal]

The 10 commandments were given By GOD with lightning and thunder.

When in the Bible are they clearly removed.

I agree that the cerimonial laws were nailed to the cross, but where in scripture is it stated that the 10 commandments are removed?

You are absolutely right the Ten Commandments were never removed and will not be until heaven and earth pass away. about the thunder and lightening. what you say is also repeated in the book of Revelations as follows;

Rev 11:19 Then the temple of God in heaven was opened, and the ark of His covenant appeared in His temple. And there were flashes of lightning, and rumblings, and peals of thunder, and an earthquake, and a great hailstorm.

the Ark of the covenant was seen in a future event and shows the importance and permanence of His Covenant.

this happened at the seven trumpet and, ""The nations were enraged, and Your wrath has come. The time has come to judge the dead and to reward Your servants the prophets, as well as the saints and those who fear Your name, both small and great— and to destroy those who destroy the earth.” rev:11-18

The Ten commandments will not pass away.

 

[vassal]

I have no more time for you I do not like to argue, the topic of the O.P is set ""The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?""we should keep discussing this and nothings else if you have specific questions about it then ask as for the rest NO. same for you @Inquisitor .

@pinebeach If this topic is boring to you can move on to another thread that does interest you more, just saying...

 

[vassal]

Those two laws are the foundation on which the Law stands, not a replacement for the Law. If you obey those two laws, would you be breaking any of the 10 commandments? How important is love? Read 1 Cor 13. Also, there is one baptism, and that is, Baptism in the name of the Father. It is He that baptizes you in the name of the Son after He chooses you and in the name of the Holy Spirit through the Son.

The two great commandments that Jesus gave are the beating heart of all the Law. He said to love God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and to love your neighbor as yourself. When this kind of real love fills a person, they will not break the Ten Commandments, because true love does not fight against God or harm others.

But even though love is the root, God still gave the commandments so we can understand clearly what He wants from us. God and we are not the same. He is far above us in wisdom, holiness, and power. Without His commandments we would not know the full scope of His will. For example, the Sabbath command teaches us that God wants us to stop, rest, and give Him special honor. We would not know this from love alone. Another example is the command not to make idols. A person may say they love God, but without this command they might still create things to worship. The commandments show us the right path.

Jesus did not remove the commandments. He magnified them and showed the true meaning behind them. He taught that anger in the heart leads toward murder, and lust in the heart leads toward adultery. He explained that obedience begins inside, not only in outward actions. He brought the commandments to their full light so we can walk in God’s way with a clean heart.

About baptism, Jesus commanded His disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father calls us, the Son saves us, and the Holy Spirit gives us new life. All three work together in the believer, just as Jesus said.

Blessings

 

[vassal]

At this point, we can note several distinctions in the two laws. They had different authors, were written on different material, were placed in different locations, and had totally different content.

Now let’s take a closer look at the ceremonial ordinances that Moses wrote in the book. They were in the “side of the ark … for a witness against thee.” It is interesting to note that the curses and judgments of this law spelled out penalties for transgression which were totally missing from the Ten Commandments. For this reason, the ceremonial law was considered to be a law that was “against” them. Even in the New Testament, we read the same descriptive language in reference to that law. “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross” (Colossians 2:14). Certainly, there was nothing in the Ten Commandment law that could be defined as “contrary” to Paul and the church to whom he was writing. It was not “against” those early Christians to refrain from adultery, theft, lying, etc. On the other hand, that moral law was a tremendous protection to them and favored every interest in their lives. We have only to read Paul’s exalted description of the Ten-Commandment law to recognize that those eternal principles were never blotted out or nailed to the cross. After quoting the tenth commandment of the decalogue in Romans 7:7, Paul wrote these words, “Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good” (verse 12). Then he continued in verse 14, “For we know that the law is spiritual …”If the Ten Commandment law had been blotted out at the cross, would Paul have spoken in such glowing language of its perfection and spirituality? He did not speak of a past law. He said, “the law is holy … the law is spiritual.” In other words, it was very much alive and operating when Paul wrote to the Roman church. In contrast, he described the handwriting of ordinances in the past tense: “was against us … was contrary to us.” It is certain he was not speaking of the same law.

Do you see the difference or are you not willing to see things differently.... ask the Holy Spirit to convict you of the truth...

if only people understood this there would be no arguments. Paul was speaking indeed of the rest of the laws of Moses that were against the people notably the ceremonial laws and never the commandments, as you wrote Paul said "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good" He followed all of them Including the sabbath command.

 

[Hallstone]

Luke 23:54 It was the preparation day, and the Sabbath was about to begin.

Luke 23:55 Now the women who had come with Him out of Galilee followed, and saw the tomb and how His body was laid.

Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and perfumes. And on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.


So if THE Sabbath was nullified by the Lord Jesus, why did they observe it, and why did they feel that it was more important than preparing the Lord's body for burial? If He had told them that it was no longer necessary, why would they have felt that it was more important than the Lord himself?

 

[vassal]

Luke 23:54 It was the preparation day, and the Sabbath was about to begin.

Luke 23:55 Now the women who had come with Him out of Galilee followed, and saw the tomb and how His body was laid.

Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and perfumes. And on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.


So if THE Sabbath was nullified by the Lord Jesus, why did they observe it, and why did they feel that it was more important than preparing the Lord's body for burial? If He had told them that it was no longer necessary, why would they have felt that it was more important than the Lord himself?

they all observed it including Apostle Paul.

 

[pinebeach]

@pinebeach If this topic is boring to you can move on to another thread that does interest you more, just saying...

You cannot refute scripture and it makes you uncomfortable. You have said you are not a Christian and this is a Christian forum so I think I will just stay and continue to point out the fact you say you are not a Christian and say the covenant is the commandments. You seem to deny Paul's authority in scripture even though Jesus Himself appeared to Paul and called him to be an apostle to Gentiles...non-Jews. The OT covenant was made with the Jews but you continue to say it is a part of the New Covenant. It seems you do not believe the book of Romans since you disregard Paul.

You do not get to tell anyone to leave a thread especially when it is only because you do not like the fact they are pointing out the fact you say you are not a Christian...and you refuse to say what you do call yourself.

When you create your own forum to support whatever it is you actually are or believe in, then you can tell people what t do. This is a public forum and a Christian forum so maybe I am not the one in the wrong place since you say you are not a Christian and want to shut down a person who wonders why you say that and continue to 'teach' an unbiblical gospel that you have made up and is not found anywhere in scripture. I did notice that you do use other sources for what you believe...these are not biblical either and are quite questionable actually.

 

[pinebeach]

The 10 commandments were given By GOD with lightning and thunder.

When in the Bible are they clearly removed.

I agree that the cerimonial laws were nailed to the cross, but where in scripture is it stated that the 10 commandments are removed?

You cannot be in covenant with two different covenants as Paul explains in the book of Romans. Jesus fulfilled the law on our behalf so that we can again have our spirits restored and be in realtionship with God

1Do you not know, brothers (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives? 2For instance, a married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. 3So then, if she is joined to another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

4Therefore, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. 5For when we lived according to the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, bearing fruit for death. 6But now, having died to what bound us, we have been released from the law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. Romans 7

 

[pinebeach]

they all observed it including Apostle Paul.

For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. I Cor. 9:19-22

 

[mailmandan]

Right. Jesus is my Savior. He is my righteousness before God. Do you do everything Jesus did?

Good question. Sabbatarians today will typically argue that Jesus kept the sabbath so they must follow Jesus and keep the sabbath as well but that kind of reasoning is flawed. Jesus was born under the law so of course He kept the sabbath. Now notice how sabbatarians only choose sabbath keeping and reject the rest of Jesus' Jewish lifestyle under the law. Jesus also kept Kosher laws, the Passover, Sukkot, Hanukkah, and worshipped in the temple. I hear nothing from sabbatarians today about follwing Jesus in those examples as well.

 

[TMS]

The ten commandments are of Course good but its not the covenant God calls us into..The new Covenant is The Gift of Jesus Christ and the Cross. This covenant contains Grace and truth. The new covenant does not erase the ten commandments, no, never, but it takes them out of the way so we can follow Gods son Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world. The law reveals sin the cross forgives it...

New International Version
Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator.

Always Choose Jesus Christ finished works on the cross. We get mercy while he took the condemnation

But we don't make void the law..

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

The moral laws doesn't save us it reveals our need to be saved and praise God Jesus does save us.. but the law that was added because of transgressions is the laws given to Moses that he wrote in the book. The moral laws (the 10 commandments) define transgression so they must of already existed.. but the cerimonial laws were given to deal with sin and the civil laws were given to help them as a nation.. It was given until the Seed (JESUS) should come.... when Jesus came the cerimonial laws that all pointed to Jesus, that were a shadow of Jesus no longer needed to be practiced.
The moral law that defines sin is still active today..

 

[TMS]

You seem to deny Paul's authority in scripture even though Jesus Himself appeared to Paul and called him to be an apostle to Gentiles...non-Jews. The OT covenant was made with the Jews but you continue to say it is a part of the New Covenant. It seems you do not believe the book of Romans since you disregard Paul.

The Jew and Gentile argument disappeared in Acts... there are many verses, read for yourself that God was working with the Gentiles ALSO.
Act 11:9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Gal 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

We are all one in Christ. Don't say the moral law is only for the Jews and not for Gentiles. There isn't any distinction between them today because we are all one in Christ.

 

[TMS]

You cannot be in covenant with two different covenants as Paul explains in the book of Romans. Jesus fulfilled the law on our behalf so that we can again have our spirits restored and be in realtionship with God

1Do you not know, brothers (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives? 2For instance, a married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. 3So then, if she is joined to another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

4Therefore, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. 5For when we lived according to the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, bearing fruit for death. 6But now, having died to what bound us, we have been released from the law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. Romans 7

The authority of the law

The law points out that we are sinners and sin = death...

If we are crucified with Christ...
Christ paid the penalty of the law for us.
The authority of the law no longer holds us guilty. We are dead to the consequences of the law.. the law no longer holds us guilty because of the payment that Jesus made.

We have been released from the law...

Does that mean we continue to sin because of Jesus's grace?

Rom 6:1-2
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Should we that have been freed from the penalty of the law (dead to the law) continue to transgress it anyway?
No

Rom 6:14-16
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Notice that obedience is still required, but it is because we are children or servants of Christ.
Sin is the transgression of the law....

In the same chapter Romans 7 which you are quoting please understand these verses

Rom 7:7-14
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Without the law sin is dead ... we don't know what sin is without the law...

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

The law is good
Sin is the enemy

We are saved from sin by Jesus's death. He paid the price of sin so the penalty of transgressing the law no longer applies.

Sure we are free, released, no longer under, and made dead to the penalty of the law but only if you are saved in Christ. Those that are not saved will be condemned by the law as sinners and death will be the result..
The law is not void. People are still guilty today.

 

[TMS]

We all need to realise the context...

For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. I Cor. 9:19-22

In Paul's day there was a transition from the traditional Jewish customs to the Giving of the gosple to the whole world..

The laws, all laws were a point of confusion.. many of the laws of Moses were not able to be obeyed, when they were going to the Gentiles

Peter and Paul even got into a disagreement about it.

Knowing the context and that the laws were a point of contention, we can appreciate the verses better..

The point of circumcision and meat offered to idols... etc.

Knowing the difference between the shadow laws, or the cerimonial laws, and The civil laws, and health laws and the Moral laws makes it so much easier to understand the truth.

 

[pinebeach]

We are all one in Christ. Don't say the moral law is only for the Jews and not for Gentiles. There isn't any distinction between them today because we are all one in Christ.

I really have no respect for people who what you are doing here. I never said a thing about a moral law. If you think creating false witness against someone is moral, then I would tell you that you have a problem with that law as well as trying to keep the commandments. You have posted about what you call the moral law quite a bit. I have said absolutley nothing about a moral law.

Apart from that, my post was not directed at you. The op cannot reply to me without admitting he is not a Christian, as he has said mulitple times now, so of course he cannot answer. So now I am wondering...are you a Christian? You seem to agree with his posts and he says he is not a Christian so that's why I ask.

People who put themselves under the law are not one with Christians. The Bible states that those who do that are under a curse.

For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Gal. 3:10

 

[pinebeach]

We all need to realise the context...


In Paul's day there was a transition from the traditional Jewish customs to the Giving of the gosple to the whole world..

The laws, all laws were a point of confusion.. many of the laws of Moses were not able to be obeyed, when they were going to the Gentiles

Peter and Paul even got into a disagreement about it.

Knowing the context and that the laws were a point of contention, we can appreciate the verses better..

The point of circumcision and meat offered to idols... etc.

Knowing the difference between the shadow laws, or the cerimonial laws, and The civil laws, and health laws and the Moral laws makes it so much easier to understand the truth.

A totally ridiculous post by someone who does not understand salvation or the New Covenant. Please don't quit your day job.

 

[pinebeach]

The authority of the law

The law points out that we are sinners and sin = death...

If we are crucified with Christ...
Christ paid the penalty of the law for us.
The authority of the law no longer holds us guilty. We are dead to the consequences of the law.. the law no longer holds us guilty because of the payment that Jesus made.

We have been released from the law...

Does that mean we continue to sin because of Jesus's grace?

Rom 6:1-2
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Should we that have been freed from the penalty of the law (dead to the law) continue to transgress it anyway?
No

Rom 6:14-16
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Notice that obedience is still required, but it is because we are children or servants of Christ.
Sin is the transgression of the law....

In the same chapter Romans 7 which you are quoting please understand these verses

Rom 7:7-14
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Without the law sin is dead ... we don't know what sin is without the law...

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

The law is good
Sin is the enemy

We are saved from sin by Jesus's death. He paid the price of sin so the penalty of transgressing the law no longer applies.

Sure we are free, released, no longer under, and made dead to the penalty of the law but only if you are saved in Christ. Those that are not saved will be condemned by the law as sinners and death will be the result..
The law is not void. People are still guilty today.

How many times are you and others going to break faith and make false accusations? No one has said the law is void.

It is an insult to God to keep saying we have to continue to try and keep the law when God made a way, THE way out of that predicament.

Perhaps if you did not focus on sin so much and try to whip it back with the law, you would sin less because you have new life in you, a desire to avoid sin and be thankful that you are not judged by the law.

It's your type of messed up understanding that creates a false salvation puts people in fear of God instead of loving Him and thanking Him.

 

[pinebeach]

Good question. Sabbatarians today will typically argue that Jesus kept the sabbath so they must follow Jesus and keep the sabbath as well but that kind of reasoning is flawed. Jesus was born under the law so of course He kept the sabbath. Now notice how sabbatarians only choose sabbath keeping and reject the rest of Jesus' Jewish lifestyle under the law. Jesus also kept Kosher laws, the Passover, Sukkot, Hanukkah, and worshipped in the temple. I hear nothing from sabbatarians today about follwing Jesus in those examples as well.

Right. The op is saying he is not a Christian but won't say what he is so that's another consideration.

These people selectively avoid certain scripture that totally puts the end to their unbiblical claims and or created mashups of unrelated scripture to 'prove' their 'religion'.

You start to come to the conclusion that God has blinded their eyes because they refuse the truth and that's a scary thing. On they march though.

 

[pinebeach]

You are absolutely right the Ten Commandments were never removed and will not be until heaven and earth pass away. about the thunder and lightening. what you say is also repeated in the book of Revelations as follows;

Oh don't worry. You will judged by them if you keep refusing the fact that Jesus sacrifice is the end of the law. But, like I said, don't worry. Your unbiblical insistance on the law and denial of Christianity is going to tap you on the shoulder one day. You don't believe that yet that is what Christians believe.

So, since you say you are not a Christian, are you on a Christian forum trying to make converts to your particular cult?