The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[vassal]

Yes. And then Jesus called Paul personally and made him the apostle to Gentiles.

Or are you of the belief that Paul was not an Apostle? Yes or no question but feel free to include scripture in your answer as long as said scripture is in context.

I have no more time for you I do not like to argue, the topic of the O.P is set ""The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?""we should keep discussing this and nothings else if you have specific questions about it then ask as for the rest NO. same for you @Inquisitor .

 

[pinebeach]

I have no more time for you I do not like to argue, the topic of the O.P is set ""The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?""we should keep discussing this and nothings else if you have specific questions about it then ask as for the rest NO. same for you @Inquisitor .

I asked specific questions. You have answered them by avoiding answering them. You do not think Paul and Jesus are in agreement. The 10 commandments are not the covenant. So, you obviously do not believe or understand that actual true gospel either. But we already knew that, right?

It's not that you do not have the time. You spend hours on here. You are not preaching/teaching the actual gospel. You teach a mashup of OT with some Jesus thrown in. I have done nothing but talk about the commandments and the fact that they are not the covenant and not the way to eternal life. This adherence and inclusion of the commandments, is nothing more than human beings that don't believe God when He states that all our righteous acts are like filthy rags to Him.

 

[pinebeach]

1.Exodus 34:27–28
Exo 34:27 The LORD also said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.”
Exo 34:28 So Moses was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments.


2. Deuteronomy 4:13
Deu 4:13 He declared to you His covenant, which He commanded you to follow—the Ten Commandments that He wrote on two tablets of stone.


3. Deuteronomy 9:9
Deu 9:9 When I went up on the mountain to receive the tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant that the LORD made with you, I stayed on the mountain forty days and forty nights. I ate no bread and drank no water.


4. Deuteronomy 9:11
Deu 9:11 And at the end of forty days and forty nights, the LORD gave me the two stone tablets, the tablets of the covenant.


5. Deuteronomy 9:15
Deu 9:15 So I went back down the mountain while it was blazing with fire, with the two tablets of the covenant in my hands.

This covenant was with the nation of Israel. Are you missing the New Testament in your Bible? But of course you have stated you are not a Christian so there's that ...

 

[TMS]

The 10 commandments were given By GOD with lightning and thunder.

When in the Bible are they clearly removed.

I agree that the cerimonial laws were nailed to the cross, but where in scripture is it stated that the 10 commandments are removed?

 

[TMS]

How many commandments did God speak and write on stone? It seems like a stupid question but lots of people have combined the 10 TEN commandments with all of the other commandments given to Moses.

It seems quite obvious that one would effectively do away with the Ten Commandments by mingling them with ninety or a hundred others and calling them “ordinances” instead of commandments. Such a radical effort has been made to dilute the force of the only words of the Bible that God wrote with His own hand.

Is there proof in the Scriptures that there was a blending of the ceremonial and moral law into one? NO. Can it be shown that the Ten Commandments were of a permanent, perpetual nature while the ceremonial law of statutes and ordinances came to an end when Jesus died? Yes.

Are you willing to look at scriptures that prove this? To those that have an ear let them hear.

 

[TMS]

Continue from # 285.... 2 different laws...
God made known this distinction to His servant Moses, and Moses explained it to the people at Mt. Horeb. “And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. And the Lord commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it” (Deuteronomy 4:13, 14).Please notice how Moses clearly separated the Ten Commandments, which God, “He commanded you,” from the statutes which “He commanded me” to give the people. The big question now is whether those statutes and judgments, which Moses passed on to the people, were designated as a separate and distinct “law.” God answers that important question in such a way that no doubt can remain. “Neither will I make the feet of Israel move any more out of the land which I gave their fathers; only if they will observe to do according to all that I have commanded them and according to all the law that my servant Moses commanded them” (2 Kings 21:8). Here we are assured that the statutes which Moses gave the people were called a “law.” Anyone could discern that two different laws are being described. God speaks of the law “I commanded” and also the “law … Moses commanded.”

2 different laws..

 

[TMS]

Continue from # 285
2 different laws...
Daniel was inspired to make the same careful distinction when he prayed for the desolated sanctuary of his scattered nation. “Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him” (Daniel 9:11). Once more we see “thy law” and “the law of Moses,” and this time the two are recognized as different in content. There are no curses recorded in the Ten Commandments that God wrote, but the law which Moses wrote contained an abundance of such curses and judgments.

What they were written on, Stone vs book. By God vs by Moses. And where they were placed, inside vs outside the ark.

“And Moses wrote this law … And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee” (Deuteronomy 31:9, 24-26).

I'll expand on this in the next....

 

[TMS]

At this point, we can note several distinctions in the two laws. They had different authors, were written on different material, were placed in different locations, and had totally different content.

Now let’s take a closer look at the ceremonial ordinances that Moses wrote in the book. They were in the “side of the ark … for a witness against thee.” It is interesting to note that the curses and judgments of this law spelled out penalties for transgression which were totally missing from the Ten Commandments. For this reason, the ceremonial law was considered to be a law that was “against” them. Even in the New Testament, we read the same descriptive language in reference to that law. “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross” (Colossians 2:14). Certainly, there was nothing in the Ten Commandment law that could be defined as “contrary” to Paul and the church to whom he was writing. It was not “against” those early Christians to refrain from adultery, theft, lying, etc. On the other hand, that moral law was a tremendous protection to them and favored every interest in their lives. We have only to read Paul’s exalted description of the Ten-Commandment law to recognize that those eternal principles were never blotted out or nailed to the cross. After quoting the tenth commandment of the decalogue in Romans 7:7, Paul wrote these words, “Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good” (verse 12). Then he continued in verse 14, “For we know that the law is spiritual …”If the Ten Commandment law had been blotted out at the cross, would Paul have spoken in such glowing language of its perfection and spirituality? He did not speak of a past law. He said, “the law is holy … the law is spiritual.” In other words, it was very much alive and operating when Paul wrote to the Roman church. In contrast, he described the handwriting of ordinances in the past tense: “was against us … was contrary to us.” It is certain he was not speaking of the same law.

Do you see the difference or are you not willing to see things differently.... ask the Holy Spirit to convict you of the truth...

 

[decipher]

There is a major problem in that explanation because it mixes ideas that Jesus never taught and it replaces God’s clear commandments with a vague idea of “love” that has no shape or direction. Jesus never set aside the Ten Commandments. He made them clearer, deeper, and stronger.
When Jesus was asked about the greatest commandment, He gave two commandments from the Law of Moses. The first is in Deuteronomy 6:5. The second is in Leviticus 19:18. Jesus said these two are the foundation on which the Law stands, not a replacement for the Law. If you remove the Law, the two “love commandments” no longer have anything to stand on. Love becomes whatever each person imagines.

Jesus Himself showed this clearly. He said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15). He did not say, “If you love Me, forget the commandments and just love.” He also said, “Whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:19). These words make it plain that loving God and loving your neighbour cannot be separated from keeping the commandments.

The explanation you were given claims that following the two commandments of love is the same as following the Ten Commandments, but that is not true. The two teach the heart. The Ten teach the actions that flow from that heart. For example, “love your neighbour” cannot replace “do not steal,” “do not commit adultery,” “do not bear false witness,” or “do not murder.” Jesus never said they were the same. Instead, He taught that true love will lead you to obey these commandments. If a person says he loves God but refuses the commandments, Jesus says that person is not telling the truth.

The problem also grows bigger when someone says that the old covenant is gone because “all failed.” Jesus never spoke this way. He said the Law stands until heaven and earth pass away (Matthew 5:18). Heaven and earth are still here. The commandments stand. The new covenant does not erase the commandments; it writes them on the heart so that we can live them with sincerity.

The statement you were given also tries to describe baptism in a way that Jesus never taught. Jesus simply said, “Repent,” “Believe,” and “Follow Me.” He did not build a long process of three different baptisms. He told His disciples to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19). That is one baptism, not three.
The simple truth is that the two love commandments are the foundation, but the Ten Commandments are the path. They are not the same. They work together. Jesus honoured both. He lived both. And He told us to do the same.

Those two laws are the foundation on which the Law stands, not a replacement for the Law. If you obey those two laws, would you be breaking any of the 10 commandments? How important is love? Read 1 Cor 13. Also, there is one baptism, and that is, Baptism in the name of the Father. It is He that baptizes you in the name of the Son after He chooses you and in the name of the Holy Spirit through the Son.

 

[TMS]

Incorrect on "it is not a catholic teaching" because the Catholics say the ten words are binding.

And so do the Reformers, the Protestants, the Methodists, the Millerites, and the SDA, say it's binding.

Jesus did specify most of the ten commandments but the context matters.

Jesus in the strict context of the gospels was speaking directly to the Jews.

Jesus was only sent to the Jews.

Matthew 15:24
But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Prove me wrong.

Gentiles were grafted into Christ years later.

Romans 11:17-24
But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them.

A wild olive tree is a tree that is artificially introduced into the natural olive tree (grafted into).

Now for the slam dunk.

Ephesians 11:11-12
Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision”
by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands remember that you
were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers
to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

Your so Catholic it shocks me.

Are you grafted in or not grafted in today?
Are you connected to the olive tree that Jesus was preaching to or are you still a wild olive branch?

Act 10:34-36
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. 36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The context is good to read....
Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

 

[TMS]

Those two laws are the foundation on which the Law stands, not a replacement for the Law. If you obey those two laws, would you be breaking any of the 10 commandments? How important is love? Read 1 Cor 13. Also, there is one baptism, and that is, Baptism in the name of the Father. It is He that baptizes you in the name of the Son after He chooses you and in the name of the Holy Spirit through the Son.

True... if you obey the 2 laws of love you will not be breaking any of the 10 commandments..

If the world obeyed the 10 commandments, it would be a loving world.. but only if it was motivated by love.. when people obey out of selfishness they would act like the pharisees, Not like Jesus

 

[TMS]

Your argument is missing a vital point... and it falls apart because you make the sabbath commandment part of the Old covenant and part of the Levitical law and therefore include it with the other laws that have been made void. You include it and make it part of the oc when it isn't.

I have been feeling guilty because I posted this on Friday. I was in a hurry and said the wrong thing....

"You make the sabbath commandment part of the Old covenant"....

It was part of the Old covenant... sorry I apologize... I was meaning that it was not part of the cerimonial laws... my mistake..

I was thinking cerimonial laws so replace OC with Cerimonial laws.... sorry again..
I was saying that people mix the ten commandments with the other laws, cerimonial laws and laws written in the book by Moses, but they are different laws.
The 10 was part of the Old covenant. And they are the center of the new covenant...
But the 10 commandments including the Sabbath were different from the cerimonial laws and the laws written by Moses.

I hope that clears it up....

 

[soulprobe]

How many times do I need to say it....

You and me have no right to judge who will or will not be saved. I can not sit on the judgment throne and made that choice. Yes or no is for God to decide not me.

No I can't give you an answer..

But I can state clearly that it is a sin to disregard the bible sabbath and transgress the forth commandment.

Sin is the transgression of the law

And Sin = death.

Sin is the opposite of righteousness and seperates us from God..

So you are in a round about way saying "yes"... that not keeping the 4th commandment is sin therefore billions of professing Christians that have ever lived, who chose to not obey the 4th commandment till their last breath, will be punished by Jesus Christ like murderers, liars and thieves and get thrown into the Lake of Fire... with the exception of those Christians who have been following the teachings of a dead American woman. Got it.

The reasons why not a single Christian Sabbath observer, and follower of this dead American woman, has the courage to give me a straight answer is because a "No" would be admitting that it's not a requirement and a "Yes", would make them look embarrassingly judgmental... Another reason is because the deceptively obscured premise of their teaching, (that billions of people all over the world are required to rest Friday sunset to Saturday sunset in order to be saved), is a BIG LIE!

 

[Albert]

The ten commandments are of Course good but its not the covenant God calls us into..The new Covenant is The Gift of Jesus Christ and the Cross. This covenant contains Grace and truth. The new covenant does not erase the ten commandments, no, never, but it takes them out of the way so we can follow Gods son Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world. The law reveals sin the cross forgives it...

New International Version
Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator.

Always Choose Jesus Christ finished works on the cross. We get mercy while he took the condemnation

 

[soulprobe]

I am always amazed when understandings of Scripture that I thought were common are considered made up by some on CC.
As usual, the critic omits key parts of GW, in this case the phrase "they shall return here", which gathering refers to Canaan,
but in the NT is viewed as rising to heaven--obviously?

BTW, your website is nice , but your disagreeable nature , not so much.

"Disagreeable nature"....? So all who do not agree that the OT land of Canaan = heaven where God has His Throne have a "disagreeable nature"? 99.99% of posts on religious and political discussion boards are disagreements... that's the nature of these platforms. You may want to spend more time on forums dedicated to various hobbies... I'm sure you'll find lots of agreement on those.

 

[Inquisitor]

The 10 commandments were given By GOD with lightning and thunder.

When in the Bible are they clearly removed.

I agree that the cerimonial laws were nailed to the cross, but where in scripture is it stated that the 10 commandments are removed?

The problem you have with the idea that the "law" was nailed to the cross. Are things related to ceremonies,
the temple, and holy days.

Here is the scripture.

Colossians 2:14
Having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and
He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

How the devil can a ceremonial decree be "decrees against us, which was hostile to us".

A ceremonial decree will not condemn you.

The transgression of the ten commandments would result in your execution in Israel.

Care to explain the idea that ceremonial law was nailed to the cross.

Colossians 2:14
Having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and
He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

By the way, the phrase "ceremonial law is not in the scripture.

 

[soulprobe]

“You are preaching; you are not showing from scripture why you think we have to obtain perfection and if we don't, then it is because we enjoy sin.”

“Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.” Matthew 5:48
This is actually a command directed toward Jesus’ brothers and friends (the children of God the Father). It’s something they must strive to achieve and if it would be impossible for them to achieve he would not have commanded it.

But this is incomprehensible to the followers of the dead American woman who mutilated, butchered and merged the Old and New Covenants for the 19th century American lifestyle.

"And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matthew 19: 24 - 26

With God “all things are possible”: a rich man entering the kingdom of God as well a sinner eventually becoming a perfect child before their Father in heaven.

 

[TMS]

So you are in a round about way saying "yes"... that not keeping the 4th commandment is sin therefore billions of professing Christians that have ever lived, who chose to not obey the 4th commandment till their last breath, will be punished by Jesus Christ like murderers, liars and thieves and get thrown into the Lake of Fire... with the exception of those Christians who have been following the teachings of a dead American woman. Got it.

The reasons why not a single Christian Sabbath observer, and follower of this dead American woman, has the courage to give me a straight answer is because a "No" would be admitting that it's not a requirement and a "Yes", would make them look embarrassingly judgmental... Another reason is because the deceptively obscured premise of their teaching, (that billions of people all over the world are required to rest Friday sunset to Saturday sunset in order to be saved), is a BIG LIE!

Oh
You are acting just like the pharisees...

Joh 8:4-5 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

Jesus was being tested by the leaders ....
If Jesus said stone her as the law of moses states, he would have been seen by everyone as hard and unloving.

If He said ignore the laws of Moses and let her free, He would have been seen as not following the laws that the Jews strongly believed.

He was in a place.... Justice or Mercy...

But divine wisdom gave Him a way to have both Justice and Mercy.

Your asking me to say Yes or No

I can't say yes because God is the Judge and He will know the heart. When people don't know they are doing wrong Jesus will not hold them accountable...
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

But I can't say no because only those that overcome will sit with Jesus.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

I will not say yes or no because the bible says... Mat 7:1-2
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

I will not judge.

 

[TMS]

By the way, the phrase "ceremonial law is not in the scripture.

Okay the book of laws with 600 plus laws that Moses wrote..
They contained lots of laws, some were related to food and health, some were laws about the temple and ceremonies.
Some were about penalties and punishments, lots of commandments..

So what are the laws of ordinance?

Col 2:14-17 KJV 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Ordinances that were against us...
There is nothing written in the 10 commandments that is against us.
There is lots written In the laws that Moses wrote That is against us.

Ordinance = Transliteration: dogma
Phonetic: dog'-mah
Thayer Definition:
doctrine, decree, ordinance
of public decrees
of the Roman Senate of rulers
the rules and requirements of the law of Moses; carrying a suggestion of severity and of threatened judgment
of certain decrees of the apostles relative to right living
Origin: from the base of G1380
Strong's Definition: From the base of G1380; a law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical): - decree, ordinance.

Notice the Law - civil, ceremonial, or ecclesiastical..

The Ten commandments are moral laws.
Meat and drink or new moons were not in the 10 commandments.
Sabbaths were part of the cerimonial laws that were kept every year.. so the presence of Sabbaths in this verse does not mean the 4th commandment was nailed to the cross..

What was nailed to the cross was those laws that were shadows..

The laws that pointed to Jesus as the lamb.. the laws that are a shadow of the ministry of Jesus.. these laws are no longer needed..

Paul does not contradict himself.. He said the 10 commandments are Holy, just and Good plus he said they are Spiritual in Rom 7.

 

[TMS]

Care to explain the idea that ceremonial law was nailed to the cross.

Read post #11, #48 please read these so I don't have to write it all again.

The ceremonies practiced by Israel were a shadow, a pattern, of the real deal.

Their purpose was fulfilled, Completed, and no longer needed.

Jesus is the lamb and the temple is in Heaven. Jesus is also the priest in the temple so the Earthly has become void.

It served its purpose.

The moral law has not changed. Remembering the sabbath is still a moral law, not murdering is still a moral law.