Speaking in tongues

[Wansvic]

The Holy Spirit can't contradict himself, and he instructs that if there is no one to interpret, no one should speak (in tongues).

The accounts relative to speaking in tongues indicate the manifestation serve different purposes. One manifestation applies in Blain's case when overzealous believers tried to intervene on his behalf. And one manifestation relies upon the gift of interpretation:

1. Speaking in tongues automatically manifest upon the arrival of the Holy Ghost into the body of the believer. See Acts 2:4, 10:43-48, 19:1-7. Also, tongues is implied in Acts 8:12-18. After believing and obeying the gospel the individuals knew they had not yet received the Holy Ghost. And, days later they knew without a doubt they had.

In the above cases, there was no need for Peter, John and/or Paul to ascertain whether anyone was present who was used in the gift of interpretation. God automatically filled those in Acts 10 without assistance. And the other accounts reveal they prayed with and laid hands on those seeking to be filled with the Holy Spirit. The same is true today.

2. After the Holy Ghost has taken up residence in a believers body they are able to speak and sing to God in tongues on a regular basis. No man understands what is being said. Not even the one speaking. The interaction is between the Holy Spirit and man's renewed spirit. Giving God access to one's spirit is an act of faith and the experience edifies the individual. As such, the gift of interpretation does not apply.


3. The following is when the gift of interpretation applies:
The Spirit of God has a willing believer present a message to the congregation via the gift of tongues. The message in tongues is revealed to a person by the Spirit. And they present the message in the known language of the congregation.

 

[CS1]

The accounts relative to speaking in tongues indicate the manifestation serve different purposes. One manifestation applies in Blain's case when overzealous believers tried to intervene on his behalf. And one manifestation relies upon the gift of interpretation:

1. Speaking in tongues automatically manifest upon the arrival of the Holy Ghost into the body of the believer. See Acts 2:4, 10:43-48, 19:1-7. Also, tongues is implied in Acts 8:12-18. After believing and obeying the gospel the individuals knew they had not yet received the Holy Ghost. And, days later they knew without a doubt they had.

In the above cases, there was no need for Peter, John and/or Paul to ascertain whether anyone was present who was used in the gift of interpretation. God automatically filled those in Acts 10 without assistance. And the other accounts reveal they prayed with and laid hands on those seeking to be filled with the Holy Spirit. The same is true today.

2. After the Holy Ghost has taken up residence in a believers body they are able to speak and sing to God in tongues on a regular basis. No man understands what is being said. Not even the one speaking. The interaction is between the Holy Spirit and man's renewed spirit. Giving God access to one's spirit is an act of faith and the experience edifies the individual. As such, the gift of interpretation does not apply.


3. The following is when the gift of interpretation applies:
The Spirit of God has a willing believer present a message to the congregation via the gift of tongues. The message in tongues is revealed to a person by the Spirit. And they present the message in the known language of the congregation.

incorrect.

 

[lrs68]

The Bible explains that sometimes the Holy Ghost searches a Believer and knows what they need when the Believer themselves are not aware of what they need. And this causes the Holy Ghost to speak in a language or way that only God Himself is able to understand. And this causes God to provide what is needed.

The opposite side of that would be to those who deny the Holy Ghost abilities through the Gifts most likely are not receiving this Blessing from God.

 

[Suze]

Yes exactly and the gift of prophecy is my main one but tongues is not and I have seen God use prophecy in ways that tongues never has at least for me. I have only encountered actual tongues once or twice in my life and there is power in it the speaking of tongues will energize you fill you up make you come alive and your spirit flare up
If all people do is merely speak another language but there is no power in their words then what is the point? and yes it is to edify the church and also if done in publicx it requires an interpreter

The whole of 1st Corinthians chapter 14 is great on this subject . If I was u I wouldn't b going back there .

 

[Charlesiii]

The accounts relative to speaking in tongues indicate the manifestation serve different purposes. One manifestation applies in Blain's case when overzealous believers tried to intervene on his behalf. And one manifestation relies upon the gift of interpretation:

1. Speaking in tongues automatically manifest upon the arrival of the Holy Ghost into the body of the believer. See Acts 2:4, 10:43-48, 19:1-7. Also, tongues is implied in Acts 8:12-18. After believing and obeying the gospel the individuals knew they had not yet received the Holy Ghost. And, days later they knew without a doubt they had.

This has no scriptural support. If you insist on this, the "tongues automatically manifest" are other languages. Which takes us back to the point - no one verifies the tongues of those who allege they can speak in tongues.

In the above cases, there was no need for Peter, John and/or Paul to ascertain whether anyone was present who was used in the gift of interpretation. God automatically filled those in Acts 10 without assistance. And the other accounts reveal they prayed with and laid hands on those seeking to be filled with the Holy Spirit. The same is true today.

This is because at least some of those who were present could speak the languages being spoken in "tongues". This is not true today, and to insist it is so is deceitful.

2. After the Holy Ghost has taken up residence in a believers body they are able to speak and sing to God in tongues on a regular basis. No man understands what is being said. Not even the one speaking. The interaction is between the Holy Spirit and man's renewed spirit. Giving God access to one's spirit is an act of faith and the experience edifies the individual. As such, the gift of interpretation does not apply.

False. There is no scriptural support for this. It is a doctrine from outside the church and the scriptures. A more rational argument is that anyone is able to babble, believer or non-believer, and this argument is more consistent with reality than some have a special gift of a secret language no-one else can understand.

3. The following is when the gift of interpretation applies:
The Spirit of God has a willing believer present a message to the congregation via the gift of tongues. The message in tongues is revealed to a person by the Spirit. And they present the message in the known language of the congregation.

Again, I'd argue those who interpret are never vetted to ensure they are indeed interpreting. And some of us, who have the gift of discerning spirits, know that in the majority of cases, those who claim to have gifts of "speaking in tongues" or "interpreting tongues" are deceived, or in more severe cases, charlatans and false prophets. Hence, the necessity to test those claiming special spiritual gifts before exposing the wider church to risk from liars and the deceived.

 

[Wansvic]

This has no scriptural support. If you insist on this, the "tongues automatically manifest" are other languages. Which takes us back to the point - no one verifies the tongues of those who allege they can speak in tongues.

This is because at least some of those who were present could speak the languages being spoken in "tongues". This is not true today, and to insist it is so is deceitful.

False. There is no scriptural support for this. It is a doctrine from outside the church and the scriptures. A more rational argument is that anyone is able to babble, believer or non-believer, and this argument is more consistent with reality than some have a special gift of a secret language no-one else can understand.

Again, I'd argue those who interpret are never vetted to ensure they are indeed interpreting. And some of us, who have the gift of discerning spirits, know that in the majority of cases, those who claim to have gifts of "speaking in tongues" or "interpreting tongues" are deceived, or in more severe cases, charlatans and false prophets. Hence, the necessity to test those claiming special spiritual gifts before exposing the wider church to risk from liars and the deceived.

Everything I stated is supported by scripture. And relying on one's lack of experience is not proof against the reality expressed within scripture. Jesus said, "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
" (Matt. 7:6-8) The Heavenly Father will give the Holy Spirit to those who ask. (Luke 11:13)


Speaking in tongues is a supernatural ability that results from the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit and serves God's purposes. And the same is true of all Spiritual gifts. The idea that any of the gifts rely on natural talent or education is a fallacy.

 

[Charlesiii]

Everything I stated is supported by scripture. And relying on one's lack of experience is not proof against the reality expressed within scripture.

I refer to your statement below.

1. Speaking in tongues automatically manifest upon the arrival of the Holy Ghost into the body of the believer. See Acts 2:4, 10:43-48, 19:1-7. Also, tongues is implied in Acts 8:12-18. After believing and obeying the gospel the individuals knew they had not yet received the Holy Ghost. And, days later they knew without a doubt they had.

Yet Paul refutes this with scripture. Not all speak in tongues.

1 Corinthians 12:29 - 30
Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

Those who won't address babbling for what it is, and make-believe or are deceived into believing it is speaking in tongues, make a mockery of real miracles and real spiritual gifts. In my opinion, it is blasphemy - using God's name in vain.

Those who truly believe it is a real language are free to do so in private. But when these use it in church, it should be used in accordance with the rules prescribed in scripture for speaking tongues in the church. As this doesn't happen, it is disobedience.

 

[wattie]

Yes this is the scripture I mentioned to them but they just ignored it and said that everyone can have the gift, besides that they seem to really put tongues as the main gift of the holy ghost they keep asking me if I want to receive the holy ghost but I have already receieved it yet unless I speak in tongues they don't think I have. sadly I am unable to go to any other church for now because I need a ride to it and no church so far has been able to pick me up.

If they attach tongues to salvation..that's going way off beam, and the mark of a cult.

 

[Blain]

The whole of 1st Corinthians chapter 14 is great on this subject . If I was u I wouldn't b going back there .

Well for now at least it is the only church IO am able to go to because I require a ride to go but yes I don't think this is the church for me

 

[Blain]

If they attach tongues to salvation..that's going way off beam, and the mark of a cult.

Yes they do that or at least they say it is the sign of the holy ghost and honestly I don't think they have a solid foundation to stand on with that. basically when I confronted the pastor about biblical evidence that tongues is the sign of salvation he referenced all the times tongues was used in the early church and uses that as the biblical evidence which is shaky at best

 

[wattie]

Yes they do that or at least they say it is the sign of the holy ghost and honestly I don't think they have a solid foundation to stand on with that. basically when I confronted the pastor about biblical evidence that tongues is the sign of salvation he referenced all the times tongues was used in the early church and uses that as the biblical evidence which is shaky at best

If you see receiving eternal life on its own..all through the book of John.. what does it tell you?

 

[Wansvic]

I refer to your statement below.

Yet Paul refutes this with scripture. Not all speak in tongues.

1 Corinthians 12:29 - 30
Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

Those who won't address babbling for what it is, and make-believe or are deceived into believing it is speaking in tongues, make a mockery of real miracles and real spiritual gifts. In my opinion, it is blasphemy - using God's name in vain.

Those who truly believe it is a real language are free to do so in private. But when these use it in church, it should be used in accordance with the rules prescribed in scripture for speaking tongues in the church. As this doesn't happen, it is disobedience.

Paul's comment pertained to spiritual gifts. There is a difference in the manifestation upon receiving the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit and being used to present a message in tongues that relies upon the spiritual gift of interpretation for understanding. I don't think this is true, I know it is true. Scripture reveals there is a difference and I can personally attest that the experiences do in fact differ.

 

[Me_Clay]

1 Corinthians 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, everyone of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

 

[Blue155]

Paul's comment pertained to spiritual gifts. There is a difference in the manifestation upon receiving the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit and being used to present a message in tongues that relies upon the spiritual gift of interpretation for understanding. I don't think this is true, I know it is true. Scripture reveals there is a difference and I can personally attest that the experiences do in fact differ.

Did all Christians speak in tongues? Paul says no. That means not all Christians had the gift of speaking in tongues. Same for gifts of healing and interpreting. That passage is pretty clear that not all Christians had the ability.

 

[Charlesiii]

Paul's comment pertained to spiritual gifts. There is a difference in the manifestation upon receiving the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit and being used to present a message in tongues that relies upon the spiritual gift of interpretation for understanding. I don't think this is true, I know it is true. Scripture reveals there is a difference and I can personally attest that the experiences do in fact differ.

And yet I know it is not true, so one of us is lying and/or deceived. There is no reference in scripture to any differentiation between the gift of tongues, and speaking in tongues as a "manifestation upon receiving the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit". Therefore, the plainest reading of scripture, that not all Christians speak in tongues, is inconsistent with the man-made doctrine of speaking in tongues being the "manifestation upon receiving the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit".

If you want proof that babbling, or as you describe it "speaking in tongues", has absolutely no bearing on whether one has the Holy Spirit or not, refer to the guy below. I think most Christians will agree he is either demon possessed, or at best, one of the greatest heretics and false prophets of our time. And he babbles (but like all the others, he calls it "speaking in tongues").

 

[Wansvic]

Did all Christians speak in tongues? Paul says no. That means not all Christians had the gift of speaking in tongues. Same for gifts of healing and interpreting. That passage is pretty clear that not all Christians had the ability.

There is a difference in the manifestation upon receiving the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, praying in tongues, and being used to present a message in tongues that relies upon the spiritual gift of interpretation for understanding.
I have shared scriptures on multiple occasions that back up the above point. And scripture is the final authority not peoples opinions.

May God Bless.

 

[Wansvic]

And yet I know it is not true, so one of us is lying and/or deceived. There is no reference in scripture to any differentiation between the gift of tongues, and speaking in tongues as a "manifestation upon receiving the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit". Therefore, the plainest reading of scripture, that not all Christians speak in tongues, is inconsistent with the man-made doctrine of speaking in tongues being the "manifestation upon receiving the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit".

If you want proof that babbling, or as you describe it "speaking in tongues", has absolutely no bearing on whether one has the Holy Spirit or not, refer to the guy below. I think most Christians will agree he is either demon possessed, or at best, one of the greatest heretics and false prophets of our time. And he babbles (but like all the others, he calls it "speaking in tongues").

View attachment 282466

Scripture reveals you are mistaken.

My hope is that you would study further. And May God Bless.

 

[Charlesiii]

There is a difference in the manifestation upon receiving the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, praying in tongues, and being used to present a message in tongues that relies upon the spiritual gift of interpretation for understanding.
I have shared scriptures on multiple occasions that back up the above point. And scripture is the final authority not peoples opinions.

May God Bless.

The scriptures you shared refute your position, rather than support it. And your position is inconsistent in that many false prophets and demon dabblers can babble.

In short, your position is not only refuted by scripture, but invalidated by simple logic and natural understanding of the capacity for people to speak gibberish. (i.e. your position is poor enough that even non-Christians can aptly rebut, let alone Christians using scripture).

May you indeed study further, but the study should be God's word rather than the false doctrines of men. And may God bless you as you seek truth, rather than pride.

 

[Wansvic]

Yes they do that or at least they say it is the sign of the holy ghost and honestly I don't think they have a solid foundation to stand on with that. basically when I confronted the pastor about biblical evidence that tongues is the sign of salvation he referenced all the times tongues was used in the early church and uses that as the biblical evidence which is shaky at best

Scripture is what actually reveals if one's understanding about any topic is accurate. The truth is always confirmed by 2-3 witnesses/scriptures. (2 Cor. 13:1, Matt. 18:16, Deut. 19:15)


Consider the answers to the following questions, they reveal what is and is not true:

1. Did the people in the detailed accounts speak in tongues when they received the Holy Spirit? (Acts 2:4-41, 10:43-48, 19:1-7)

2. In the accounts, what percentage of the people spoke in tongues when they received the Holy Spirit? (Acts 2:4-33,10:43-48, 19:1-7)

3. Is there anything other than speaking in tongues recorded hat indicated people received the initial infilling of the Holy Spirit?

4. Are there 2-3 scriptures that reveal the Holy Spirit is not received the instant a person believes the gospel? (Luke 11:13, Acts 8:12-18, 10:43-48 (Acts 11:15), 19:1-7)

5. Was there an OT prophesy about the experience at Pentecost? (Joel 2:28) If so, what was the prophecy? And what did Peter reveal about the connection between the Spirit and speaking in tongues? (Acts 2:2-4, 13-18, 29-33)

6. Can believers witness with power without being filled with the Spirit of God? (Acts 1:8, Matt. 28:18-20, Mark 16:15-20),

7. Is it necessary for believers to be filled with the Spirit of God in order to receive revelation knowledge? (John 16:13. 1 Cor. 2:14)

8. Can believers pray the perfect will of God without first being filled with the Spirit of God? (Rom 8:26-27, Eph. 6:18)

9. Can believers develop Christian character without first being filled with the Spirit of God? (Gal 5:22-23, Jude 20-24)

10. Do believers have to be filled with the Holy Spirit in order to belong to God? (Rom 8:9-11. John 3:5)

 

[Wansvic]

The scriptures you shared refute your position, rather than support it. And your position is inconsistent in that many false prophets and demon dabblers can babble.

In short, your position is not only refuted by scripture, but invalidated by simple logic and natural understanding of the capacity for people to speak gibberish. (i.e. your position is poor enough that even non-Christians can aptly rebut, let alone Christians using scripture).

May you indeed study further, but the study should be God's word rather than the false doctrines of men. And may God bless you as you seek truth, rather than pride.

You are mistaken. The sum of the scriptures pertaining to the topic reveal what is and is not true regarding the manifestation of tongues.

And your suggestion that pride plays a part in what I share is way off base. We are commanded to share the truth in love. And I've done my part. May God Bless.