Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

you seem to use this passage often to support the idea that a believer can continue in sin and still be saved.

I have never done any such thing, false accuser. Your art is deception, apparently.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

I am speaking from a biblical viewpoint not from a Calvinistic viewpoint. I have read it (and the whole chapter) numerous times and am extremely familiar with it.
See @Magenta's post 26,808 for an excellent detailed explanation. Hint: the verse doesn't mean what you've incorrectly stated.

I am sorry. You have been conditioned to read Scripture with Calvinistic glasses and you cannot see it any other way.
The immediate context - verse 10 talks about the deep things of God.
This is not talking about the gospel.
In addition, Paul says to the CORINTHIANS in 1 Corinthians 3:3 that they are "carnal" and they are abiding in the sins of "strife" and "envy". This means that they are carnal and natural minded for justifying sin. This is a letter as a rebuke to them.
Paul is not writing to them to prove some kind of Calvinistic non-sense.


.....

 

[Magenta]

I am sorry. You have been conditioned to read Scripture with Calvinistic glasses and you cannot see it any other way.
The immediate context - verse 10 talks about the deep things of God.
This is not talking about the gospel.
In addition, Paul says to the CORINTHIANS in 1 Corinthians 3:3 that they are "carnal" and they are abiding in the sins of "strife" and "envy". This means that they are carnal and natural minded for justifying sin. This is a letter as rebuke to them.
.

Jeepers, you people are hell bent on insisting that the person without the Spirit of God has the Spirit of God.

There is a difference with a distinction but y'all are blind to it, ascribing to the natural man what only the spiritual man is capable of.

If you removed your vermin-infested CDS beard for a moment you might get it...

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him." John 6 verse 44 The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2 verse 14 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8 verse 7-8

 

[Magenta]

Paul is not writing to them to prove some kind of Calvinistic non-sense.

John 14 v 17a, Romans 8 v 6-9 ~ “Inability” in Bible. The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. Praise be to God for calling me out of the world.

 

[Magenta]

Why is it troubling to put your trust in the potter rather than the lump of clay?

They boast in the flesh, which God detests.

 

[Magenta]

I am not surprised that Scripture "burns the eyes" of the unGodly. The devil needs sunglasses. Strong ones...

Romans 7 v 18-24a I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. And if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. So this is the principle I have discovered: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law. But I see another law at work in my body, warring against the law of my mind and holding me captive to the law of sin that dwells within me. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord!

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

I have never done any such thing, false accuser. Your art is deception, apparently.

Um, no. You seem to imply future sin is forgiven for a believer in this post here.
So if you believe future sin is forgiven you, this means you can sin and still be saved on some level.
I believe Scripture that says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. I believe 1 John 1:7 that says we must walk in the light as He is in the light so that the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses me of all sin. This walking in the light is loving your brother according to the indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-10.
Proverbs 28;13 basically says he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.
Most are oblivious to this truth in Scripture.


....

 

[Magenta]

So if you believe future sin is forgiven you, this means you can sin and still be saved on some level.

Are you one of those phony lying sinless perfectionists?

All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3 v 23). There is no one who does not sin (from 1 Kings 8 v 46). No one living is righteous before You (from Psalm 143 v 2). If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (1 John 1 v 8). Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.” (John 8 v 34) And this is the verdict: The Light has come into the world, but men loved the darkness rather than the Light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed (John 3 v 19-20). The heart is incurably wicked (Jeremiah 17 v 9). What is evil? Sin is evil. Stop sugar coating it. All men sin, and commit evil in the sight of God. There are none good, no, not one! A bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit.

 

[homwardbound]

Life in its self was not a mistake, the mistake was life did not accept life from life, without the acceptance being provided, it would be impossible, but the acceptance was provided, and the life still did not accept, because God had decreed it should and it never. His life sold it's self to sin out of thinking it could live.

God gave you freedom of thought but his will and life.

And you have to ask how could life (the breath of life) from life not accept life from life.

Gods life lives in you sir and his life and his word lives in you.

Which was and had always been, before sin existed.

So we ask God to reveal his wisdom as to why His breath of life did not accept life from life in the garden. And he can reveal it through his life, in you and for you, and through his word.

The life knew the word sir before it rejected life, the life was his breath of life created in his image,

Your life knows the word now which was and always has been.

Every time you hear the word now, his life in you, knows it to be true, and will know it's the word from the beginning.

God breathed a living active word to Adam which his life knew in Adam, (the breath of life),

God is not a God that punishes for not knowing,

Your life which is his life, knows as it's spoken to you, as and when it's spoken, same as Adam.

Because you was also there at the beginning, my life is his and life and word, which now is speaking to his life in your life, from the begining sir.

There's no way to stop what has been sowed and willed and decreed.

If his word commands his children to bless m then we don't call that religion, we call that his word.

His faith his way his life giving word that saved you.

thank you for the words of encouragement. What I know, God loves us all y'all. otherwise that cross would not have gotten completed in his one time only physical death, that he is risen from to never die again. To save us all. Only by making the choice God Father and Son as Won or not making that choice and being a selfish one. As many are selfish, as I was before seeing new and not quitting even in adversities. Even as Job would not deny God, neither have I. As deeper, especially as Jesus went willingly to that cross of us all, to save us in his resurrected life for us to get given to anyone in belief from Father.
That is the reconciliation for all 2 Cor 5:16-20 All that is left is:
To believe God consciously, between God and you personally. Learn the truth from Father and share to others to go to God personally also, and be taught truth over errors in this world here still. Oh and not fight flesh at all, thanks Matthew 10:16-20.
To learn Luke 21:14-15

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Why is it troubling to put your trust in the potter rather than the lump of clay?

Jesus says sin can defile a man. This is what Paul refers to that if you defile the temple, God will destroy you.



....

 

[cv5]

Personally, I find those images visually disturbing and they almost burn my eyes. Even my wife found them off putting. That is why I usually scroll past these posts really fast. As an artist and a Christian who seeks to do the Lord’s will, I find them deeply troubling.

However, I did notice the verse in this one, and you seem to use this passage often to support the idea that a believer can continue in sin and still be saved.

Here is my defense of the true understanding of Romans 7:

Peter says this about Paul's writings,
"As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." (2 Peter 3:16).

In Romans 7:1-6, Paul is telling Messianic Christians (i.e. those brethren who know Old Testament Law - Romans 7:1) that the Old Law is dead and that they should serve in newness of Spirit (i.e. the New Testament Scriptures that were still being formed) and not in oldness of the letter (i.e. the Torah, etc.). This makes sense because Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. This lines up with the temple veil being torn from top to bottom when Christ died (Which started the New Covenant officially). The Old Testament Laws on animal sacrifices was no longer in effect anymore and Jesus Christ was now our passover Lamb or perfect sacrifice. Hence, why Romans 7:2 says, "if the husband [i.e. Jesus] be dead, she [i.e. the body of believers] is loosed from the law [i.e. the Old Law] of her husband."

In Romans 7:7-13, Paul is recounting Israelite history and speaking as a Jew throughout time with the coming in of the Law of Moses and what that was like.

In Romans 7:14-24, Paul is recounting his experience as a Pharisee before he became a Christian. Paul (Saul) is describing his experience of what it is like to struggle in keeping the Old Covenant Law that did not include Jesus Christ.

It is true that the use of first-person present verbs in the passage (“I am” “I practice” “I want” “I hate” “I do”) sounds like Paul is talking about his present experience. But Paul sometimes uses “I” in a rhetorical sense to describe generic experience rather than his own present experience (1 Corinthians 10:30; 1 Corinthians 13:2-3, 1 Corinthians 13:11). In at least one other place, Paul uses a first-person present verb to describe his opponents’ experience (Galatians 2:18).

Romans 7:25 is a verse that transitions back to the present day reality as Paul being a Christian. He is thankful that he now has victory in Jesus Christ His Lord who can deliver him from his body of death (Which was a problem before). Otherwise why is Paul thanking Jesus?

Paul asks the question in verse 24.

Who shall deliver me from this body of death?

I like how the Good News Translation answers this question. It says,

"Thanks be to God, who does this through our Lord Jesus Christ! This, then, is my condition: on my own I can serve God's law only with my mind, while my human nature serves the law of sin." (Romans 7:25 GNT).

The NTE says,

"...So then, left to my own self I am enslaved to God’s law with my mind, but to sin’s law with my human flesh." (Romans 7:25 NTE).

But Romans 13:14 says,
"But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof."


[ Continued in my next post ]

.....

King David, who is certainly saved, speaks of HIMSELF in similar terms ..... frequently.

But.....the Calvinist fail to comprehend the simple matter of defining who the speaker is before jumping the rails into a dogmatic train wreck.

 

[BillyBob]

Already dealt with so many times, faith is not the gift, the gift is salvation

Which is provided by grace through faith - not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
I simply cannot understand how anyone could read this, and yet claim, I DID IT MYSELF!.
Yes Salvation is a gift but the faith to believe was also a gift. . . .

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Are you one of those phony lying sinless perfectionists?

As I told you before, believers can stumble. We see this with Peter and the others. But if you read 1 Peter 4:1-2, and 2 Corinthians 7:1, and believe these passages plainly like a child, then you will know the truth, and that truth will set you free.



.....

 

[Magenta]

As I told you before, believers can stumble. We see this with Peter and the others. But if you read 1 Peter 4:1-2, and 2 Corinthians 7:1,
and believe these passages plainly like a child, then you will know the truth, and that truth will set you free.
.

Oh, so you affirm that saved people still sin and are still saved but you wish to condemn me if I even hint at such. Hypocrite.

When are you going to believe plainly spoken passages "like a child"? Never???

Romans 8 v 6-7 The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

King David, who is certainly saved, speaks of HIMSELF in similar terms ..... frequently.

But.....the Calvinist fail to comprehend the simple matter of defining who the speaker is before jumping the rails into a dogmatic train wreck.

I really wish the sin and still be saved belief was true. But it simply isn't.
In fact, I believed it for like an hour or so until I looked at the Scriptures.

#1. Numbers 35:16-18 says it only takes one act of murder to be a murderer, and Leviticus 20:10 says it only takes one act of adultery to be an adulterer.

#2. Jesus Himself regarded just looking at a woman once as an act of adultery (Matthew 5:28).

#3. John says, "No murderer has eternal life abiding in them." (1 John 3:15).

#4. Proverbs 6:32 says, "Whosoever commits adultery with a woman lacks understanding: he that does it destroys his own soul."

#5. Jesus Himself says that just looking at a woman in lust (Which is adultery) is potential for a person to be cast bodily in hell fire (See Matthew 5:28-30).

#6. David needed to confess his sin in order to be forgiven (See Psalms 51).

#7. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

#8. Revelation 21:8 says, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Murderers and whoremongers will be cast into the lake of fire. All liars will be cast into the lake of fire. ALL liars, and not just some. NO murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15).

God is good and not evil.
If God allowed us to sin and still be saved, that would mean God would have to be a party to our justifying sin and that's not possible. God is love, and God is good. He calls us to be holy as He is. Granted, God alone is good, but this means that we let the light of God's good ways shine through us.



....

 

[Magenta]

Romans 5 verses 18-19 ~ Just as one trespass brought condemnation for all men, so also one act of righteousness brought justification and life for all men. For just as through the disobedience of the one man (Adam) the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man (Jesus Christ) the many will be made righteous.

 

[Magenta]

Romans 8 v 1-2; 5 v 57 + 58b no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

John 14 v 17a, Romans 8 v 6-9 ~ “Inability” in Bible. The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. Praise be to God for calling me out of the world.

Inability cannot exist if the Jews were resisting the Holy Spirit who is God (Please read Acts 7 again).




,,,,,

 

[BillyBob]

I really wish the sin and still be saved belief was true. But it simply isn't.
In fact, I believed it for like an hour or so until I looked at the Scriptures.

And Scripture speaks of David as a man after God's own heart. Go figure!

 

[Magenta]

believe these passages plainly like a child

2 Corinthians 4 verses 3-4 ~ 2 Corinthians 4 verse 4 ~ Even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, Who is the image of God.