Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Yes, and I'm growing weary of refighting the same battles with the same people.
No matter how often we explain it, they simply aren't able to grasp it.
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2 Peter 3 v 15-16 ~ Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
 
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The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians ch 2 v 14
 
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Each tree is known by its own fruit. Indeed, figs are not gathered from thornbushes, nor grapes from brambles. The good man brings good things out of the good treasure of his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil treasure of his heart. For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks. The mouth of the wicked pours forth evil. Luke 6 v 44-45 (Matthew 12 v 35) Proverbs 15 v 28b
 
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Jeremiah 9 v 23-24, 1 Corinthians ch 1 v 31 This is what the LORD says: “Let not the wise man boast in his wisdom, nor the strong man in his strength, nor the wealthy man in his riches. But let him who boasts boast in this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the LORD, who exercises loving devotion, justice and righteousness on the earth - for I delight in these things,” declares the LORD. As it is written, “He who boasts, let him boast in the Lord.”
 
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Romans 8 v 5-9 Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
 
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I know that nothing good lives in my flesh... For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. Each of us has become like something unclean, and our iniquities carry us away like the wind. Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? Not one. No one is good except God alone. A bad tree cannot bear good fruit. “What is impossible with man is possible with God.” from: Romans 7 v 18, Galatians 5 v 17, Isaiah 64 v 6, Job 14 v 4, Mark 10 v 18, Matthew 7 v 18, Luke 18 v 27
 
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Paul does NOT say that the deep things of God are revealed after we believe. You assume that and read it into the text but it is doubtful you will admit this. You also say the gospel is not a deep thing of God, but again you assume and read things into the text that are simply not there. In fact, Paul describes the gospel as a profound mystery that human wisdom alone cannot discover or understand; it can only be revealed through the Holy Spirit. Natural, or unspiritual, people cannot understand the gospel's truths because they are "spiritually discerned" (1 Corinthians ch 2 v 14). It requires the work of the Holy Spirit to reveal and apply this truth to a person's heart and mind. The core message of the gospel—Christ's death and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins, God's plan of redemption ordained before the world began—was a mystery hidden for ages but is now made known to believers through the Spirit. While the fundamental message of the gospel is simple enough for anyone to receive by faith, its theological implications, riches, and practical applications are inexhaustible, providing a lifetime of exploration for believers.

Therefore, the gospel is not a shallow or basic teaching, but is rather the profound foundation and entirety
of the Christian life, understood ever more deeply through the ongoing work of the Holy Spirit.

Again, all you have to do is read the chapter in the KJV at Biblehub. It's the context.

Verse 9 focuses on “the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.” This is not talking about the basics of the Gospel, but the prepared things God has for His people.

Verse 10 then explains how these things are made known: “for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.”

This is the key. Paul is dealing with the deep things of God, not the Gospel message. The Gospel is simple and openly preached to all. The “deep things” are the spiritual truths, wisdom, and understanding that God reveals to believers through His Spirit after they are saved.

So when Calvinists claim that verse 14 (“the natural man receiveth not…”) is describing an unbeliever’s supposed inability to believe the Gospel, they are ignoring the entire context. Paul is not talking about the Gospel at all in verses 9–13. He is explaining how believers learn the deeper spiritual wisdom that God reveals through His Spirit.

Verse 14, therefore, is not an introduction to salvation. It is a contrast between:

• The natural man who refuses spiritual wisdom
• The spiritual man who receives the deep things of God by the Spirit

The context makes it impossible for verse 14 to be about an unbeliever’s ability to believe the Gospel.
Verse 10 makes it clear that this is the deep things of God and not the gospel in context.
If you believe otherwise, then you need to explain the verses in context, especially verse 10 with the deep things of God.
How does verse 9-13 lead into verse 14 and does it defend the Calvinistic viewpoint here?

Also, Paul continues and says,

"And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?" (1 Corinthians 3:1-4).

This is all part of 1 Corinthians 2:14 in his saying, "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

Paul says to the Corinthians that they are carnal in 1 Corinthians 3:3 and mentions how they are justifying the sins of strife and envy (See again 1 Corinthians 3:3). In other words, a believer can later have a natural man perspective on account that they are justifying sin or evil.

The milk of the Word:

1 Peter 2:2 KJV

“As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby.”​

Milk would be like believing the gospel message of salvation.

The meat of the Word:

Hebrews 5:14 KJV

“But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.”​

1 Corinthians 3:1–2 KJV

“And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.​
I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.”​
The meat of the Word is discerning between good and evil.
Most Christians today justify some kind of sin and still be saved type belief.
Hence, there understanding on the meat of the Word is pretty much non-existent.
Most are still on the milk of the Word or the basics.



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Why is it troubling to put your trust in the potter rather than the lump of clay?

That is a baseless statement. I am quoting Scripture and using that as my basis. If you disagree with the Scriptures where Jesus commends the faith of the Canaanite woman for making an extended parable to illustrate spiritual truth, then take it up with God and not me. I did not write the Bible. God did.

My point is that if she could make a real world example to illustrate truth, then so can we.
Meaning, Calvinism can be demonstrated as being morally bankrupt by just making real world examples of it.
This is in addition to all the free will verses where men is held accountable to God (which you somehow ignore).





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Verse 14, therefore, is not an introduction to salvation. It is a contrast between:

• The natural man who refuses spiritual wisdom
• The spiritual man who receives the deep things of God by the Spirit
Nobody that I know of has said it was an introduction to salvation. It is simply a simple stated fact that the
Spirit of God is required to understand and agree with the Spiritual things of God, something free willers deny.
They (like you) have the natural man without the Spirit agreeing with God about the Spiritual things of God.
Things which Scripture expressly identifies as things the natural man is opposed to. In your theology, flesh pleases God.


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Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom (2 Cor ch 3 v 17). If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ (Rom 8 v 9b). The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him (from John 14 v 17). Those not in Christ are not free (see Heb 2 v 15). Praise God if He has rescued you from the dominion of darkness! (see Col 1 v 13)
 
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Flesh serves the law of sin. For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other. Nothing good lives in my flesh. Who can say, “I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin”? Who can bring what is pure from the impure? No one! The flesh brings forth fruit unto death. Romans 7 v 25, Galatians 5 v 17, Romans 7 v 18, Proverbs 20 v 9, Job 14 v 4, Romans 7 v 5 (Romans 8 v 13 and James 1 v 15)
 

Already dealt with so many times, faith is not the gift, the gift is salvation... consistency throughout scripture is imperative, starting with the OT.

Letter to the Hebrews
Chapter 4

It does NOT state by the faith which they were gifted.....

17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, 18 even though God had said to him, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”[c] 19 Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death.


20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau in regard to their future.


21 By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of Joseph’s sons, and worshiped as he leaned on the top of his staff.


22 By faith Joseph, when his end was near, spoke about the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt and gave instructions concerning the burial of his bones.


23 By faith Moses’ parents hid him for three months after he was born, because they saw he was no ordinary child, and they were not afraid of the king’s edict.

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I know that nothing good lives in my flesh... For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. Each of us has become like something unclean, and our iniquities carry us away like the wind. Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? Not one. No one is good except God alone. A bad tree cannot bear good fruit. “What is impossible with man is possible with God.” from: Romans 7 v 18, Galatians 5 v 17, Isaiah 64 v 6, Job 14 v 4, Mark 10 v 18, Matthew 7 v 18, Luke 18 v 27
Personally, I find those images visually disturbing and they almost burn my eyes. Even my wife found them off putting. That is why I usually scroll past these posts really fast. As an artist and a Christian who seeks to do the Lord’s will, I find them deeply troubling.

However, I did notice the verse in this one, and you seem to use this passage often to support the idea that a believer can continue in sin and still be saved.

Here is my defense of the true understanding of Romans 7:

Peter says this about Paul's writings,
"As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." (2 Peter 3:16).

In Romans 7:1-6, Paul is telling Messianic Christians (i.e. those brethren who know Old Testament Law - Romans 7:1) that the Old Law is dead and that they should serve in newness of Spirit (i.e. the New Testament Scriptures that were still being formed) and not in oldness of the letter (i.e. the Torah, etc.). This makes sense because Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. This lines up with the temple veil being torn from top to bottom when Christ died (Which started the New Covenant officially). The Old Testament Laws on animal sacrifices was no longer in effect anymore and Jesus Christ was now our passover Lamb or perfect sacrifice. Hence, why Romans 7:2 says, "if the husband [i.e. Jesus] be dead, she [i.e. the body of believers] is loosed from the law [i.e. the Old Law] of her husband."

In Romans 7:7-13, Paul is recounting Israelite history and speaking as a Jew throughout time with the coming in of the Law of Moses and what that was like.

In Romans 7:14-24, Paul is recounting his experience as a Pharisee before he became a Christian. Paul (Saul) is describing his experience of what it is like to struggle in keeping the Old Covenant Law that did not include Jesus Christ.

It is true that the use of first-person present verbs in the passage (“I am” “I practice” “I want” “I hate” “I do”) sounds like Paul is talking about his present experience. But Paul sometimes uses “I” in a rhetorical sense to describe generic experience rather than his own present experience (1 Corinthians 10:30; 1 Corinthians 13:2-3, 1 Corinthians 13:11). In at least one other place, Paul uses a first-person present verb to describe his opponents’ experience (Galatians 2:18).

Romans 7:25 is a verse that transitions back to the present day reality as Paul being a Christian. He is thankful that he now has victory in Jesus Christ His Lord who can deliver him from his body of death (Which was a problem before). Otherwise why is Paul thanking Jesus?

Paul asks the question in verse 24.

Who shall deliver me from this body of death?

I like how the Good News Translation answers this question. It says,

"Thanks be to God, who does this through our Lord Jesus Christ! This, then, is my condition: on my own I can serve God's law only with my mind, while my human nature serves the law of sin." (Romans 7:25 GNT).

The NTE says,

"...So then, left to my own self I am enslaved to God’s law with my mind, but to sin’s law with my human flesh." (Romans 7:25 NTE).

But Romans 13:14 says,
"But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof."


[ Continued in my next post ]

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@Magenta

However, if you are still in doubt, there are 8 reasons in Scripture that show us that Paul is indeed talking as a Pharisee (recounting his past experience) and he is not talking in the present tense as a Christian in Romans 7:14-24.

#1. In Romans 7:6, Paul says we should serve in newness of the spirit and not the oldness of the letter (Which is the Old Law and not the New Testament Scriptures that were still being formed). We are told to SERVE. How do we serve? Do we just do our own thing? No. We follow God's commands in the New Testament. This talk of the Old Law is the context of verses 14-24.

#2. We are dead to the Law by the body of Jesus Christ (Romans 7:4). Would this be the Old Law or ALL law? 1 John 3:23 is a commandment that says we are to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. This is a New Covenant Law. So obviously we are not dead to this Law or Command. The Scriptures also say, "but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent." (Acts 17:30). Are we dead to this Law? Surely not. Jesus said "repent or perish." (Luke 13:3). Peter told Simon to repent (by way of prayer to God) of his wickedness of trying to pay for the gifts of the Holy Spirit so that he may be forgiven (Acts 8:22). Sin is merely transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4). All this lets us know that men of God can break God's laws and they can be separated from GOD because of it. So surely some kind of Law of God is still in effect and has dire consequences for any person's soul who commits them. For Jesus said that if we do not forgive, we will not be forgiven by the Father (Matthew 6:15). If Jesus was talking to unbelievers, this would not make any sense. They would first need to accept Christ. So the only logical conclusion is that Jesus is talking to believers in Matthew 6:15. You do not forgive (i.e. you sin or break this law of God) and you will not be forgiven or saved. 1 John 3:15 says if you hate your brother you are like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. Again, you hate your brother (which can be a one time act) and you do not have eternal life. It's that simple. Also, Paul condemns circumcision several times. Galatians 5:2 is the biggest verse that condemns circumcision salvationism. Circumcision is an Old Covenant Law and it is not a New Covenant Law. Paul uses the word "law" when he speaks against circumcision. So we have to conclude that Paul is saying we are dead to the Old Covenant Law and not all Law. So again, this talk of the Old Law plays into verses 14-24.

#3. Paul says, "For without the law sin was dead." (Romans 7:8). He also says, "I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died." (Romans 7:9). This type of saying is nonsensical from a present tense reading as an adult Christian. The only way it sort of works is if Paul is referring to himself as a baby who had no knowledge of God's laws yet. But there are two problems with even that interpretation. One, this view does not seem as consistent with the phrase, "For without the law sin was dead" because even though Paul as a baby did not have any knowledge of the Law yet, the rest of the adult world would have the Law and sin would still be alive to them. Second, Paul says, "And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me." (Romans 7:10-11). Okay, so if Paul grew up and became aware of the Law one day, how could the commandment be ordained to life at this point in his life? The commandment was ordained for life back in the time of the Law of Moses. Also, Paul found that "the commandment" was death unto him and that it slew him. There are no death penalties attached to the commands given to us under the New Testament. Death penalties are only associated with the Laws given to us in the Old Covenant. This is how the Law slew him. For breaking the Old Law could be a loss of his own physical life. So this is talking about the Old Law (and not all Law). So again, this talk of the Old Law plays into verses 14-24.

#4. Paul says, "But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful." (Romans 7:13). Okay. Let's break this down. Paul says, "But sin, that it MIGHT APPEAR SIN, works death in me." (Romans 7:13). Now, how can sin make it appear like it may not be sin? Well, if Jesus was raised and Saul (Paul) was still a Pharisee striving to obey the Old Law when the New Covenant Law was still in effect, the sin that Saul (Paul) was struggling with as a pharisee during that time would not really technically be sin in every case. For if Paul disobeyed certain Old Covenant laws while the New Covenant and it's laws were in effect, then Saul (Paul) is not really breaking any real commandments from God in every case. Hence, why Paul said, "...sin, that it MIGHT APPEAR (as) SIN." (Romans 7:13). The beginning of verse 13 is a foreshadow of what is to come in verses 14-24. Paul is stepping out for a brief moment as speaking as an Israelite living throughout history to speak of his condition as a Pharisee when he says, "...sin, that it might appear sin." In the second half of verse 13, Paul says, that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful." (Romans 7:13). This is saying that when God provided the written Law of Moses to his people, there would be a double accountability to keeping God's laws because they are written for all to see now. So an Old Testament saint would feel exceedingly sinful or guilty for breaking God's law back in the Old Testament times because he had in his possession a written down visual law clearly telling him what is right and wrong. So again, Paul is referring to the Old Law here and not all law. This talk of the Old Law plays into verses 14-24.

#5. Paul says in Romans 7:14 that he is carnal and is sold under sin; And yet in Romans 8:2, Pauls says he is free from sin. So unless Paul is contradicting himself, he is talking from two different perspectives.

#6. In Romans 7:25, Paul asks the question: "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" Asking this kind of question as a Christian does not seem consistent with Paul's following statement if he is already delivered thru Jesus Christ as a Christian. If a believer is delivered by Jesus, and is thankful of that fact, there would be no cry to ask any question that says, "Who shall deliver me from this body of death?"

#7. Here is the final nail in the coffin for this argument. Romans 8:3-4 says,
3 "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:3-4).

So which Law did God send His Son for so as to condemn sin in the flesh?
It was the Old Covenant Law.
For when Jesus died on the cross, the temple veil was ripped from top to bottom letting us know that the Old Testament laws were no longer valid because the Old Laws on the animal sacrifices and the priesthood were no longer acceptable.
Jesus Christ was now our Passover Lamb.
Jesus Christ was soon be our Heavenly High Priest (after He ascended to His father after His resurrection 3 days later) so He can be our mediator between God the Father and man.

Romans 8:4 says, "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

This is saying that the righteous part or aspect of the Old Law can be fulfilled in us.

Paul says elsewhere,
8 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

(Romans 13:8-10).

So loving your neighbor is the righteousness of the Old Law!
We fulfill this law by walking after the Spirit and not after the flesh (i.e. sin).

So we see a consistent theme here. The word "law" used in general (with no actual description attached to it) is in reference to the Old Law in Romans 7 and Romans 8. This helps us to understand that Paul is telling us his past experience or life as a Pharisee in struggling to keep the Old Law unsuccessfully because he did not have Jesus Christ yet (in verses 14-24).


#8. In addition, in Romans 8:2, we see the mention of how there are TWO laws. We also learn from this verse that keeping one of these Laws helps us to be set FREE from the other one.

In Romans 8:2, we see:

Law #1. - Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.
This is a New Covenant Law that we are still under. What is this Law?
It is fulfilling the righteousness of the Law (i.e. to love your neighbor - Romans 13:8-10) by walking after the Spirit (See Romans 8:3-4).

Law #2. Sin and Death.
This is in reference to the Old Covenant Law as a whole (i.e. the 613 Old Testament Commands within the Torah). It is called the Law of Sin and Death because you could physically be put to death by not obeying this Law.

What is the relationship of these two laws in Romans 8:2?

Keeping the New Law helps us to be free of the Old Law.
For there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus who WALK not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:1).


Source used for a small paragraph within this write up:
http://www.thegoodbookblog.com/2012/apr/27/paul-is-not-talking-about-himself-why-i-take-the-p/



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The spiritually dead cannot cry out. They are dead and completely oblivious and therefore dependent upon God's mercy and grace alone to save them. But He does so only for His elect. Notice in the below verses, they were dead in sin, but God alone made them alive. Nothing occurred between their being dead and the receiving of life (quickened) except that God intervened to make them alive.
They contributed nothing nor was a choice given to them.

[Eph 2:1 KJV] 1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;
[Col 2:13 KJV] 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Again, Arminians believe in Prevenient Grace. This is the belief that God enables the will and enlightens the eyes to see the truth and make a free will choice concerning the gospel. Once their eyes are awakened to see the truth, they have a choice to either accept the gospel or reject it. But this is not a forced situation as I pointed out to you before. You keep ignoring Acts 7 where the Jews are said to resist the Holy Spirit. This kind of thing is not possible in the upside down world of Calvinism. Nobody can resist God in their universe.



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