Charlie Kirk - so what now ?

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I had a very difficult time with this because you are right, is this simply gossip? The problem is we are discussing something, and people are alleging slander of Erika Kirk and I was confused. Who slandered her? But then when I found that video I felt that explained clearly why they would say that. Now if these people had less than a thousand views each I would agree to simply ignore this and move on. But this is Candace Owens and Elon Musk. I don't mean I like them, follow them, or trust them. But regardless of what you think of them you need to know what they are saying. I listen to Steve Bannon and he opens his show with a five minute cold open every day with MSNBC, Rachel Maddow and others. It is infuriating to those that watch his show but his point is you need to know what they are saying. You lose all credibility if you have no idea what they are saying but you are resolute on demanding that no one else listen to them. I would not at all be surprised if it turns out that Candace Owens and Elon Musk are a mouthpiece for some intelligence agency pushing their agenda. That doesn't mean they are lying nor does it mean that what they are saying is true or false. What it means is very powerful and influential people want this to be the story and that is what I want to know.

I also found it interesting that instead of simply debunking what they say, instead of doing an interview in which you respond to what they have said and give your side of the story or correct misinformation. No, what we get is a frame job. No one has denied what was said while at the same time it can be dismissed as a "frame job". If they deny it and that is in turn a lie, that would be very damaging in a trial, but instead we get this manufactured stuff which can now be dismissed without ever actually addressing the issues.

Now let's address the whole issue with Charlie coming back from the dead. First, I posted an old interview between Charlie and Candace talking about how the ministry was like being in a foxhole being shot at with machine guns and mortars while people you trusted are running away. So no, Charlie would see what is going on as par for the course. Second, Charlie was famous for his "prove me wrong" banner. He never dodged a question, he never tried to avoid or ignore a question. So yes, he would be shocked and disappointed that so soon after his death Erika is dodging and ignoring questions despite being the new CEO of TPUSA. These questions are being directed at TPUSA, the only reason she needs to answer them is because she is the CEO.

So my question is this, if Bill Belichik were to weigh in don't you think he would tell Erika to "do your job"?

Bill Belichik, isn't he the one that is young enough to be his daughter? Sorry, had to add that. All I can say is so much has come down the pipe since Kirk was murdered. It's just stunning, it's impossible to keep up with it all. I just don't get how most people never heard of Kirk or could point him out in a crowd, now he's the subject of everyone on social media. Like I said, he wasn't the first to do this, he didn't even come up with this idea. Stephen Crowder did. As far as I have heard so far, he hasn't given in to any of what Owens is saying in particular. One day he's someone most of the country and the world never heard of, now he's so important Israel supposedly killed him. I'll give you this, it's going to be one interesting trial!!

 

[Citizen]

I would not at all be surprised if it turns out that Candace Owens and Elon Musk are a mouthpiece for some intelligence agency pushing their agenda. That doesn't mean they are lying nor does it mean that what they are saying is true or false. What it means is very powerful and influential people want this to be the story and that is what I want to know.

[sniff] Yup. Smells like backpeddling.

So now Owens may or may not be telling the truth because she could be working for an intelligence agency. The plot thickens.

 

[Eli1]

This. I cannot imagine being so devoid of empathy that a person cannot and will not comprehend this aspect. I cannot imagine such a lust for gossip that a person can't understand how this effects and destroys everyone within Charlie Kirk's circle.

Anyone who had serious evidence to suggest his friends and wife were all in on it would be taking it to the authorities. Taking accusations and speculation without evidence to a podcast/media platforms for personal gain is absolutely disgusting.

This is why Alex Jones got sued.

 

[Citizen]

This is why Alex Jones got sued.

Yes, as he should have. Actions met consequences.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

This. I cannot imagine being so devoid of empathy that a person cannot and will not comprehend this aspect. I cannot imagine such a lust for gossip that a person can't understand how this effects and destroys everyone within Charlie Kirk's circle.

Anyone who had serious evidence to suggest his friends and wife were all in on it would be taking it to the authorities. Taking accusations and speculation without evidence to a podcast/media platforms for personal gain is absolutely disgusting.

Stephen Crowder was talking about the people that protected him. He said that he knew them. He said "imagine how they feel. They loved Charlie, he was like a hero to them, and now they feel they let him down in the worst possible way, and they have to live with that!! And his wife, left alone with two babies to raise that will never know their dad. She steps into the limelight to take up her husbands cause and is called every thing from a whore, to a murderer, of her OWN husband and more. smh She hugged the VP of the US and now it's all over the internet in the most vulgar terms that she is/was having an affair with the VP !!! After she has credited time and time again how much she adores and thanks his wife for holding her up through all of this.

I have been in the public before. Not to this degree of course, but neither was Kirk till he was murdered. I was in public ministry for a long time and had some of the most outrageous things said about my family. And these people didn't know us personally. It got to be something we laughed about because we would have not been able to continue if we listened to the crazies. This happened before social media, thank God, because I don't know what craziness we would have had to face. People like a good story, better yet a tasty nibble of rumor and away they go and the truth be danged. We have a list of stories we tell " You remember that time when someone said..." I could write a book. We were accused of kicking the pastor out of our own church, and a physical altercation took place. The one problem was, we weren't in the country, no where near the area. People who knew corrected the nasty rumor, but I'm sure there's someone out there today that believes it as gospel. So this is why all this offends me so deeply. Because I know what people can be like. Like Churchill used to say, "A lie can make it's way half way around the world before the truth can get a chance to get its pants on."

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

This is why Alex Jones got sued.

Yes and I hope Candace and Tucker get sued.

 

[ZNP]

Bill Belichik, isn't he the one that is young enough to be his daughter? Sorry, had to add that. All I can say is so much has come down the pipe since Kirk was murdered. It's just stunning, it's impossible to keep up with it all. I just don't get how most people never heard of Kirk or could point him out in a crowd, now he's the subject of everyone on social media. Like I said, he wasn't the first to do this, he didn't even come up with this idea. Stephen Crowder did. As far as I have heard so far, he hasn't given in to any of what Owens is saying in particular. One day he's someone most of the country and the world never heard of, now he's so important Israel supposedly killed him. I'll give you this, it's going to be one interesting trial!!

Guess what I just learned

How much do you think Charlie Kirk was paid from his Non profit?

1. 50k a year
2. 100k a year
3. 250k a year
4. 500k a year
5. 1,000,000 a year.
6. Over 1.5 million a year

Yep, they have 4 non profits, not 1, and the reason is so that he can say he is making 400k from TPUSA and not say he is making 1.6 million a year from all four entities. It seems shady that you divide your salary into four parts so that you can claim you are being a fourth of what you really are being paid. The law does not give a limit as to how much he can be paid but it must be reasonable. It can be argued that Charlie did not have anything to do with the separate entity that handled the investments, it is called TPEndowment or something like that. You would think you had a professional financial planner managing the investments and Charlie does not have any financial background. So the IRS can claim his getting 400k from that entity is not reasonable. I don't know what the other two TP entities other than TPUSA did and what if anything Charlie was responsible in those entities.

Another reasonable question is you can look at the hours he puts in at TPUSA and on his radio show. That is a full time job, so he makes 400k. But you would expect a similar amount of hours each week for the other three entities since the paychecks are all roughly the same. There aren't that many hours in a week. Surely he spends time with his family and he was famous for not doing any work at all on Sunday. Six days is only 144 hours. If sixty of those hours are with your family and sleeping, then he has 84 hours he could claim he is working.

Also get this, in the last five years TPUSA has paid Donald Trump Jr. close to $1 million. Was he buying access to Donald Trump?

 

[ZNP]

[sniff] Yup. Smells like backpeddling.

So now Owens may or may not be telling the truth because she could be working for an intelligence agency. The plot thickens.

My position on Candace and Elon Musk have always been the same.

This sounds like slander. Show me the post from me that would lead you to believe this is backpedaling?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Guess what I just learned

How much do you think Charlie Kirk was paid from his Non profit?

1. 50k a year
2. 100k a year
3. 250k a year
4. 500k a year
5. 1,000,000 a year.
6. Over 1.5 million a year

Yep, they have 4 non profits, not 1, and the reason is so that he can say he is making 400k from TPUSA and not say he is making 1.6 million a year from all four entities. It seems shady that you divide your salary into four parts so that you can claim you are being a fourth of what you really are being paid. The law does not give a limit as to how much he can be paid but it must be reasonable. It can be argued that Charlie did not have anything to do with the separate entity that handled the investments, it is called TPEndowment or something like that. You would think you had a professional financial planner managing the investments and Charlie does not have any financial background. So the IRS can claim his getting 400k from that entity is not reasonable. I don't know what the other two TP entities other than TPUSA did and what if anything Charlie was responsible in those entities.

Another reasonable question is you can look at the hours he puts in at TPUSA and on his radio show. That is a full time job, so he makes 400k. But you would expect a similar amount of hours each week for the other three entities since the paychecks are all roughly the same. There aren't that many hours in a week. Surely he spends time with his family and he was famous for not doing any work at all on Sunday. Six days is only 144 hours. If sixty of those hours are with your family and sleeping, then he has 84 hours he could claim he is working.

Also get this, in the last five years TPUSA has paid Donald Trump Jr. close to $1 million. Was he buying access to Donald Trump?

I guess it'll all come out in the wash as my grandmother used to say. Certainly with the trial.

 

[Citizen]

My position on Candace and Elon Musk have always been the same.

This sounds like slander. Show me the post from me that would lead you to believe this is backpedaling?

You've been hiding from my questions in post #1,273. Answer those and then we can talk.

 

[ZNP]

Here is where the audit discusses alleged money laundry by TPUSA.

Again, let me reiterate, all these documents are publicly available because TPUSA is a non profit. You can download them from the IRS and examine them yourself. None of this is speculation. On the other hand these are allegations made by a forensic auditor after looking at the documents TPUSA has filed.

 

[ZNP]

You've been hiding from my questions in post #1,273. Answer those and then we can talk.

I haven't been hiding, I told you flat out, you accuse me of slander and then say that slander is not a crime and did not mean you were trying to shut me up. Based on that I feel it is a waste of time talking with you and have no interest in any further discussions.

 

[ZNP]

I guess it'll all come out in the wash as my grandmother used to say. Certainly with the trial.

Doubt it, unless people push this is the kind of thing they will bury. People who live in glass houses don't like to throw stones.

I think your grandmother would agree that this thread is the wash as are some of these forensic audits that are being done.

 

[Eli1]

I asked "Ai": What health issues can be caused by conspiracy theories?

This is what it said:

Conspiracy theories cause health issues by undermining trust in medicine, leading to harmful behaviors like avoiding vaccines or relying on unproven treatments. This can result in poor health outcomes such as increased illness and a higher risk of preventable diseases. Additionally, belief in conspiracy theories can contribute to anxiety, social isolation, and a greater need for mental and physical healthcare services, say the authors of a Nature article and Frontiers in Psychology article.

Physical health issues

• Reduced preventative care: People who believe in conspiracy theories are less likely to get annual check-ups, vaccinations, or dental care.
• Increased risk of infectious diseases: Believing in health-related conspiracy theories, particularly those about vaccines, has been shown to decrease vaccine intentions for both children and adults, potentially leading to outbreaks of preventable diseases.
• Delay or refusal of treatment: Individuals may refuse prescribed treatments or rely on unproven alternative medicines instead of evidence-based therapies, leading to worse health outcomes.
• • Negative health behaviors: During the COVID-19 pandemic, conspiracy beliefs were associated with a lower likelihood of wearing masks, social distancing, or getting tested and vaccinated.

Mental health issues

• Anxiety and stress: The belief that unseen forces are harming them can cause significant anxiety and stress.
• Social isolation: Spreading conspiracy theories can lead to social stigma and exclusion, resulting in social isolation and a lack of social support.
• Deteriorated relationships: Belief in conspiracy theories can lead to self-centeredness, which may damage relationships with family and friends.
• Increased need for mental healthcare: The stress and social issues caused by these beliefs can lead to a higher need for mental and physical healthcare services.

Impact on health systems

• Erosion of public trust: Widespread belief in health conspiracy theories undermines public trust in healthcare providers and institutions, making it more difficult to promote public health initiatives.
• Exacerbation of health inequities: These theories can disproportionately harm marginalized populations, who already face health disparities, by further reducing their access to and trust in healthcare.

 

[Citizen]

I haven't been hiding, I told you flat out, you accuse me of slander and then say that slander is not a crime and did not mean you were trying to shut me up. Based on that I feel it is a waste of time talking with you and have no interest in any further discussions.

Can you show me where I accused you personally of slander or not? It should be really simple to provide the post.

 

[ZNP]

Can you show me where I accused you personally of slander or not? It should be really simple to provide the post.

Post 1,128 you said

“The murder was 4 weeks ago. Repeat: 4 weeks. No one rushes a major criminal case in 4 weeks. Cases like this can take up to a year to go to trial. But - your logic here - because they haven't already gone to trial then it must be a conspiracy? Do you even question your own statements and logic... ever?”

I responded in Post 1,120

You are. I am asking questions, i am not rushing to judgement, but you already have.

Candace Owens is selling her show just as all the other pundits are, but basically she is simply asking questions, that is what a journalist is supposed to do. So why does everyone want to shut her up?

You responded in post 1,131

There is asking a question... and then there's purposefully misleading the public and defaming others through the form of "just asking a question". But I don't think you'll admit to the difference.

"My insiders tell me that ZNP abuses puppies. What sort of person would do that with no remorse? I'm just asking the question. Anyone not questioning this is obviously abusing puppies, too."

Slander is still slander, even in the form of a question.

It doesn't matter if you say that the questions that Candace asked were slander, I have asked the same questions. I don't agree that the questions she asked in the video I posted were slander, nor do I agree that my asking them is slander either.

But that is only half of the issue here. I don't cut people off because they insult me and accuse me of crimes. Nor do I say "I forgive you" as Erika does without them first admitting they have sinned and asking to be forgiven. To me that is arrogant.

No the second half is you refusing to acknowledge this or that slander is a crime or that equating the questions I am asking to slander is the same thing as trying to shut me up from asking these questions.

then in Post 1,230 you responded

1. No, I have not tried to silence you. You are still free to speak your 'truth' and ask whatever questions you want. You have successfully been doing so for 62 pages, and no doubt you will successfully bang on for another 100 pages or so.

I responded in post 1,231

Wow you accuse someone of slander, which is a crime, but hey, you are free to commit crimes.

If I accused someone of slander I would not also say they are free to slander others.

At this point it seems to me you are not being honest and not being accountable for your own posts, so no longer interested in conversing with you until we can reconcile this issue.

At this point it is a waste of time talking to you. There are many people who disagree with me about many things. Eli is one, Dude another, etc. I have not cut any of them off because they are intelligent and honorable in their positions. They defend them. But for me, if you accuse me of slander and then say you didn't when it is clear, you are saying that the questions I am asking are slander (you try to say that if Candace asks them they are slander but if I do they aren't? That is BS). Then you say that simply accusing me of slander does not mean you want to shut me up, no I am free to slander?! That is also BS.

I am not interested in having useless discussions with people who play these games.

 

[ZNP]

Correction:

I mentioned 2 people by name that disagreed with me on some issues and felt that was misleading and I should correct this.

Here is a more complete list of those who disagree with me

SweetP
Magenta
Dave_in_KWC
DaviTree
Shittim
Angela53510
Cabrillo
IceDaisy
Debrac1955
Billyd
CS1
JTB
Gardenias
Rhomphaeam
Inukubo
cdan2
Aidan1
wintersrain
Dino246
etc.

There are more, all in all 179 times. I say this simply because I don't cut people off because of disagreements. I cut them off because they are not accountable for their posts.

 

[shittim]

Shittim?

 

[Citizen]

Post 1,128 you said

“The murder was 4 weeks ago. Repeat: 4 weeks. No one rushes a major criminal case in 4 weeks. Cases like this can take up to a year to go to trial. But - your logic here - because they haven't already gone to trial then it must be a conspiracy? Do you even question your own statements and logic... ever?”

I responded in Post 1,120

You are. I am asking questions, i am not rushing to judgement, but you already have.

Candace Owens is selling her show just as all the other pundits are, but basically she is simply asking questions, that is what a journalist is supposed to do. So why does everyone want to shut her up?

You responded in post 1,131

There is asking a question... and then there's purposefully misleading the public and defaming others through the form of "just asking a question". But I don't think you'll admit to the difference.

"My insiders tell me that ZNP abuses puppies. What sort of person would do that with no remorse? I'm just asking the question. Anyone not questioning this is obviously abusing puppies, too."

Slander is still slander, even in the form of a question.

It doesn't matter if you say that the questions that Candace asked were slander, I have asked the same questions. I don't agree that the questions she asked in the video I posted were slander, nor do I agree that my asking them is slander either.

But that is only half of the issue here. I don't cut people off because they insult me and accuse me of crimes. Nor do I say "I forgive you" as Erika does without them first admitting they have sinned and asking to be forgiven. To me that is arrogant.

No the second half is you refusing to acknowledge this or that slander is a crime or that equating the questions I am asking to slander is the same thing as trying to shut me up from asking these questions.

then in Post 1,230 you responded

1. No, I have not tried to silence you. You are still free to speak your 'truth' and ask whatever questions you want. You have successfully been doing so for 62 pages, and no doubt you will successfully bang on for another 100 pages or so.

I responded in post 1,231

Wow you accuse someone of slander, which is a crime, but hey, you are free to commit crimes.

If I accused someone of slander I would not also say they are free to slander others.

At this point it seems to me you are not being honest and not being accountable for your own posts, so no longer interested in conversing with you until we can reconcile this issue.

At this point it is a waste of time talking to you. There are many people who disagree with me about many things. Eli is one, Dude another, etc. I have not cut any of them off because they are intelligent and honorable in their positions. They defend them. But for me, if you accuse me of slander and then say you didn't when it is clear, you are saying that the questions I am asking are slander (you try to say that if Candace asks them they are slander but if I do they aren't? That is BS). Then you say that simply accusing me of slander does not mean you want to shut me up, no I am free to slander?! That is also BS.

I am not interested in having useless discussions with people who play these games.

Recap -

You: "Candace Owens is selling her show just as all the other pundits are, but basically she is simply asking questions, that is what a journalist is supposed to do. So why does everyone want to shut her up?"

Me: "There is asking a question... and then there's purposefully misleading the public and defaming others through the form of "just asking a question". But I don't think you'll admit to the difference.

"My insiders tell me that ZNP abuses puppies. What sort of person would do that with no remorse? I'm just asking the question. Anyone not questioning this is obviously abusing puppies, too."

Slander is still slander, even in the form of a question."

It doesn't matter if you say that the questions that Candace asked were slander, I have asked the same questions.

So you know I didn't accuse you of slander, so this appears to to be a long-winded distraction to avoid admitting you made a mistake.

 

[ZNP]

Shittim?

Yep, a few years ago. But I've gotten over it.