Loss of salvation???

[Ouch]

I believe being baptised in Jesus name is a spiritual baptism. I have been baptised Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Christs blood washes away the sin when one repents and is baptised into Jesus.

I agree it's a spiritual baptism. John 3:6

Question, since no one was ever baptized in the name of the father, Son and Holy GHost why do some preachers or men say that is the rule and people follow them?

Why do people get baptized that way?

Since you see the way to be baptized in JESUS name why did you get baptized in the titles of JESUS?

Just curious.

 

[Ouch]

I think that you have set on your sword one too many times. Didn't John the Baptist baptize Christ?

I took the name ouch due to cutting people with HIS word but it's all in LOVE I get cut often by it.

Why don't you accept the first message that JESUS promised to be preached which was Acts 2:38??????

What I really think is so cool about that message and the timing of it, it was for those who was responsible for putting HIM on the cross.

First, we know it had to happen and did HE make then stubborn???

But they were the first ones for JESUS to forgive for all of the pain they caused HIM.

I know you have a bible and I know you know the answer to that question.

So why do you ask simple questions but can't accept simple verses like,

Acts 2:38-39
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Acts 22:16
King James Version
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Can you now see why the thief didn't need to be baptized but we do?

 

[Me_Clay]

I took the name ouch due to cutting people with HIS word but it's all in LOVE I get cut often by it.

Why don't you accept the first message that JESUS promised to be preached which was Acts 2:38??????

What I really think is so cool about that message and the timing of it, it was for those who was responsible for putting HIM on the cross.

First, we know it had to happen and did HE make then stubborn???

But they were the first ones for JESUS to forgive for all of the pain they caused HIM.

I know you have a bible and I know you know the answer to that question.

So why do you ask simple questions but can't accept simple verses like,

Acts 2:38-39
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Acts 22:16
King James Version
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Can you now see why the thief didn't need to be baptized but we do?

How do you know? Jesus was the one who baptized him.

 

[Ouch]

Baptizing back then did not have to automatically mean water.
Water was only used for one kind of baptism.

Here is an example of what I speak....

For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ​

ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. ​

​

They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. They all ate the ​

same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the ​

spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 1 Corinthians 10:1-4​

One can become baptized into a person. By being immersed by God into his life in such a way that you will become totally identified with him, like the Jews had with Moses.

So, to baptize the nations into the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?
The gentile nations they were going to never heard of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

That baptism was to get the new gentile converts to become immersed into spiritual realities of the God of Christianity, to be making God their life.

For, the nations outside of Israel where the apostles were to be sent had not known God's ways.
To baptize them meant? To get the people immersed into teachings of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Like the Jews had been baptized into the teachings and life set by Moses.

"They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea." ​

​

Only one baptism is now for us.
For it says...
We have all been baptized by the Spirit into one body. 1 Corinthians 12:13

Jesus command did not mean dunking everyone in water while using the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
That would cause no understanding to be benefiting the dunked ones.
It would have been a mere ritual without understanding.

Today, can we have believers have water baptism and Spirit baptism?
The answer is no.

Because?
There is to be only one baptism in the Church age. Not two!

​

There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when ​

you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, ​

who is over all and through all and in all. Ephesians 4:4-6​

Learning the Word of God in detail will at times take interesting turns in our thinking, to get us back on the road where we should be.


grace and peace!

You must believe what you say, but what you say does not line up with HIS word.

Instead of going thought what you said, sorry just didn't make sense to me.

In an effort to keep things simple the NT started after JESUS ascended the second time telling HIS disciples to wait for a comforter.

I bet the 120 people waiting had no idea what they were waiting for? But this happened

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Right after that happened, this was the first message to be preached.

Acts 2:38-39
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Do you notice baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost are two different things?

Now let's look at John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

JESUS speaking, notice we have two different things, being born of water AND of spirit?

Has JESUS filled you with the Holy Ghost like HE did HIS disciple in Acts?

If not why do you bring up 1 Cor?

Paul was speaking to his church, those who have received the Holy Ghost.

1 Corinthians 1:1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

Why will you not accept the book of Acts?

With the verse I shared you can see being baptized in JESUS name is one thing and being filled with the Holy Ghost is something totally different.

New questions,

1. Are we still born in sin?

2. Will sin enter Heaven?

3. If we are tell me specific instructions on how we get rid of them.

4. Have you received the Holy Ghost since you have believed?

Be great if you could use HIS word.

 

[Ouch]

How do you know? Jesus was the one who baptized him.

How do I know what?

JESUS never baptized anyone.

 

[Musicmaster]

Everyone’s long and winding road to that Door (salvation) is unique. So I can only attempt to answer this question from my own unique journey and experience. I believe that on that long and winding road there can be a lot of profound experiences that can make one believe they have finally reached that Door and passed through it (saved). But in reality there are not many who even come near that Door let alone pass through it, and over time wind up doing much of what they were always doing with the exception of perhaps attending a church. When one is finally properly prepared by God and made ready through a lengthily process to finally reach that Door and pass through it, the experience is so undeniably real and profound, like Cornelius when he stood in terror before the angel, or when Paul heard a voice from heaven and was struck with blindness, or when a voice called out to Moses from a burning bush, or when a voice called to Abram from heaven, that the impression of that experience was so real, so profound and so transforming that it would be impossible to exit back through that same Door that you came in through, and go back to living the same fruitless, unsightly and embarrassing way of life you had prior to your lengthily preparation to reach that Door and pass through it.

Uh, no. Experience cannot ever serve as a replacement for scripture. Works-based salvation saves nobody, and works of self-effort do not serve to retain a salvation that can never be lost. Scripture makes not even a hint at the idea that the saved can ever become unsealed from Holy Spirit and/or unborn again from having become a new creation.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Yes, if a saved person turns away from the Lord they reap corruption

And anytime a Christian sins, they are reaping corruption and they would need to confess their sin to the Lord and forsake their sin in order for the Lord to have mercy upon them once again - God is NOT mocked, what we sow is what we reap, if we sow to the flesh (sin) we shall of the flesh reap corruption (Gal 6:7,8)


Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Hebrews 10:28-31
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

The false teachers here and else where will tell you it's all good if we sin and thery'll claim even if a Christian lives in sin they are still saved which is why they all still live in sin because they are false teachers and are the tares Jesus warned us about.






Which is exactly what the false grace teachers will do is tell you why these passages don't mean what they say which they gto from their father the old devil.

Whatever false teachers behind whatever pulpits of fale teaching you gotnthat from, I'd go and find a truly Bible-centric churchianity organization to join if you feel the need to be a part of one.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

So Jesus lied when He said those that believed and are baptized shall be saved?

We should be both spirit baptized and water baptized

Says who?

MM

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Uh, no. Experience cannot ever serve as a replacement for scripture. Works-based salvation saves nobody, and works of self-effort do not serve to retain a salvation that can never be lost. Scripture makes not even a hint at the idea that the saved can ever become unsealed from Holy Spirit and/or unborn again from having become a new creation.

MM

This is what the Valentinian gnostics believed. They thought they could never be lost no matter what behavior they practiced because they were spiritual by nature. Valentinian gnostics considered themselves to be the true Christians. The founder of the sect, Valentinus, was a high official in the Roman church and was in the running to be the bishop of Rome, ie, pope, before he left to start his own church. So it was a heretical bible-based, Christian sect unlike other gnostic sects.

 

[HigherGospel]

For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

And yet when we look at the rest of the New Testament teaching that came from the Lord Jesus we do not see water baptism as something that is no long to be practiced as the false teachers claim, falsely

Acts 2:37.38
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Colossians 2:11-13
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

I'm not saying one does not first repent, believe, and confess Jesus as their Lord and Savior. This is of course the first thing one does for initial salvation. Without doing this, one can get dunked in the water all they want and that does not make them saved.

After initial salvation, the Lord instructs us to be baptized which is a public demonstration and public acknowledgement before others that we are dead with Him and are raised up together unto new life.... it is making a covenant with the Lord when we are baptized, making a commitment, making a promise to turn from our old life unto living for Him.

This process is the starting point for us to start walking in newness of life, having a clean conscience toward God which is what actually saves us. Being dunked in water itself is not the moment one becomes born again as we should already be born again before getting baptized.

As mentioned in 1 Peter 3:21, having a clean conscience toward God having accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior, having confessed out sins before the Lord is what saves us.

Now... as we see the thief on the Cross next to Jesus acknowledge the Lord as His Savior (Luke 23:39-43)... and Jesus told this man that he was going to paradise, if one finds themselves in a situation where it's not possible to get water baptized, then they will still be saved if they have truly been born again.

Apart from this, we are required to be baptized because God's tells us to be water baptized in His Word.

Those having opportunity to be baptized and choose to disobey God's Word are disobeying the Gospel and the wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience (knowingly disobeying the Lord is an evil desire, see Colossians 3:5,6).

Through the faith of the operation of God (Colossians 2:12) through water baptism are we raised up in newness of life (Romans 6:4) to have a clean conscience towards the Lord to walk with Him and we will be saved IF we endure until the end of our life abiding IN Christ.

In conclusion, if one has opportunity to be baptized and chooses to ignore and disobey Mark 16:16, Acts 2:37.38, 1 Peter 3:21, Colossians 2:11-13, and Romans 6:4...then the after life is not going to be as they think.

 

[HigherGospel]

Paul baptized a few folks (noted in 1 Corinthians 1:14-16) and did not teach water baptism was to be discontinued or ignored.

Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:3-6)

The Lord teaches water baptism thru the Apostle Peter:

Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.” While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days. (Acts 10:43-48)

Some want to disobey the Lord claiming water baptism is not required so we'll see where these folks end up in eternity for ignoring the teachings of Jesus on this topic.

 

[Genez]

I don't answer questions given as a response to my questions

Well then.....
Let's figure it out.

After his resurrection, Jesus appeared to his disciples and told them the following.

For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” Acts 1:5​

Then, with all the excitement and amazement that had been taken place daily, Peter continued on as he had learned to do before the Cross took place. To water baptize had become a way of life for Peter! For you see, Jesus had his disciples had been water baptizing even more than John the Baptizer's disciples had been baptizing. It became Peter's routine way of life!

Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples ​

than John— although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples. John 4:1-2​

​

It took a while for Peter to stabilize. Imagine if all these things were happening in your life? Peter was no different. He needed to become stabilized. So after baptizing many (as he had always done before) it finally sunk in. Peter recalled the words of Jesus in Acts 1:5.

If Peter finally recalled it and knew Spirit baptism was to replace water baptism?
It is a safe bet that Peter would have stopped commanding for water baptisms.

The disciples had been warned even earlier about water baptism was to end.

John wore clothing made of camel’s hair, with a leather belt around his waist, ​

and he ate locusts and wild honey. ​

And this was his message: “After me comes the one more powerful than I, ​

the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie. ​

I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” Mark 1:6-8​

​

It took time for all this to finally sink in!
It's understandable.
For there were too many new things going on at once.

grace and peace ......

 

[vassal]

I agree with you to some extent. Had the Old Testament, Jesus and/or His apostles taught the Gospel of Grace, which was the means through which salvation is come unto the Gentiles and therefore a mystery (hidden wisdom), then it would not have been a mystery at all and the princes of this world would not have crucified the Lord of Glory, just as it is declared in the scriptures.

So, you have indeed hit upon what is so very true except to say that it's all based entirely on Paul. All that led up to Paul's gospel are the things upon which Paul's gospel was built, revealed ONLY to Paul after his conversion:

Galatians 1:11-12
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

What was the source of Paul's knowledge of the Kingdom Gospel? Men. That gospel was the basis for his persecution of the early church.

The Gospel of Grace, which was NOT entirely similar to the Kingdom Gospel he received from men, came only through Christ. Do you get that?

So, your post only proves not only what I've been saying all along but also what scripture says that remains rejected by some who demand it's all just one and the same gospel. Peter preached the necessity for water baptism in Acts 2 for the remission of sins...a message Paul nowhere preached nor even implied water baptism as a means for remitting sin, and yet they continue to parrot the mantra of it all being one and the same.

Christ was the foundational truth for the Kingdome Gospel, just as He is for the Gospel of Grace. The other elements, however, that are dissimilar, show to us the division in truth...and yes, there are divisions in truth. If that were not the case, then Paul would not have commanded that we rightly divide the word of truth.

Airline jets have a common fuel for their engines, wings for lift and other control surfaces for flight, but that doesn't mean that all jets are exactly alike. Blurring the lines of distinction in order to claim something that defies reason, that speaks of an agenda of some sort that also have variances from person to person. So, why are you trying so hard to ignore the differences? What do you gain from that?

The main thing I'm basing upon Paul is the gospel of our salvation. I never said there were no richness in what the others said, but not all truths for Israel are true for the body of Christ today. You do not go out into your back yard and offer up animal sacrifices when you sin, so you too are a believer in divisions in truth.

MM

Do you realize Paul's mystery given only to him is so improbable? the original 12 lived year, Jesus the MASTER for over 3 years, do you think they knew less than Paul the servant? Jesus said clearly he never spoke in secret but in the Open to everyone, have you forgotten? have you forgotten also that it is Peter that was appointed by God to go to the gentiles? yes you have

 

[HigherGospel]

have you forgotten also that it is Peter that was appointed by God to go to the gentiles? yes you have

And let's not forget the Paul also spent time trying to reach the Jews too in addition to reaching non-Jews.
As he traveled around he encountered lots of religious Jews who opposed the Gospel and he had to deal with them.

And let's not forget that it's the teachings of the Lord Jesus that the New Testament writes wrote down that became scripture.

These guys were just making this stuff up as they went along like so many today have been deceived in to believing which is why they are cherry pickers who don't accept the whole counsel of God.

 

[mailmandan]

I'm so glad our salvation isn't based on our performance because we ALL still sin in this life.

MM

The standard on performance is perfection and we all blew it! Romans 3:23 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; (that's the bad news) but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (that's the good news!) Only one person has met the perfect standard. (2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 4:15; 1 Peter 2:22)

 

[Genez]

I don't answer questions given as a response to my questions

Sometimes it will provide you the answer, by thinking through what was said to find the answer for yourself.

Do you really think Peter would command any more water baptisms after it finally sunk in, and he finally understood what Jesus had told him about water being replaced by Spirit baptism???

Ask yourself that question.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Well then.....
Let's figure it out.

After his resurrection, Jesus appeared to his disciples and told them the following.

For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” Acts 1:5​

Then, with all the excitement and amazement that had been taken place daily, Peter continued on as he had learned to do before the Cross took place. To water baptize had become a way of life for Peter! For you see, Jesus had his disciples had been water baptizing even more than John the Baptizer's disciples had been baptizing. It became Peter's routine way of life!

Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples ​

than John— although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples. John 4:1-2​

​

It took a while for Peter to stabilize. Imagine if all these things were happening in your life? Peter was no different. He needed to become stabilized. So after baptizing many (as he had always done before) it finally sunk in. Peter recalled the words of Jesus in Acts 1:5.

If Peter finally recalled it and knew Spirit baptism was to replace water baptism?
It is a safe bet that Peter would have stopped commanding for water baptisms.

The disciples had been warned even earlier about water baptism was to end.

John wore clothing made of camel’s hair, with a leather belt around his waist, ​

and he ate locusts and wild honey. ​

And this was his message: “After me comes the one more powerful than I, ​

the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie. ​

I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” Mark 1:6-8​

​

It took time for all this to finally sink in!
It's understandable.
For there were too many new things going on at once.

grace and peace ......

Baptism of the spirit wasn't for remission of sins. It was to receive power to be Christ's witnesses. Two separate things, but one overall effect - regeneration and the ability to walk in Christ..

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Sometimes it will provide you the answer, by thinking through what was said to find the answer for yourself.

Do you really think Peter would command any more water baptisms after it finally sunk in, and he finally understood what Jesus had told him about water being replaced by Spirit baptism???

Ask yourself that question.

Yes, of course he continued. See my above post. A man must be born of both water and spirit to enter the kingdom

 

[HigherGospel]

because we ALL still sin in this life.

Don't let scriptures like these get in the way of your making excuses for sinful behavior

 

[Genez]

God planned that we all be born sinners, so that Satan and his demons would have something to condemn themselves with in what they see in us.

In doing so?
All those condemned by God will end up condemning themselves by judging others for the same things they do.
Thus, vindicating God's judgment of them!

Solution for man?
The Cross nullified in us everything that Satan will condemn himself with, as we got snatched back into the hands of God.

Satan leaps on the bait that was set to trap him, and God snatches away that bait, leaving Satan ending up chomping on dust!

I hope somebody gets this...