Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Rufus]

he sounds quite familiar to genez to be honest

Oh, no! Don't tell me that Genez cloned himself.

 

[Rufus]

@cv5 @Kroogz I have been thinking…it is written in the book of Zechariah and Hebrews that God forms man’s spirit and is the Father of spirits. It is written in the book of Acts that we are the offspring of God. It is written in the Psalms that the LORD he is God, he hath made us. Did God make man without free will or to be totally depraved? If He did, then what part of man? If we have no free will, then does God? And what aspect of man came from God that does not have free will or is totally depraved? If we are made in the image of God, and God has free will, then we have free will. If God has free will, and we do not, then we are not made in His image. Also, did God form a spirit to be in man that is robbed or incapable of making a choice to choose Him? It is written in Genesis that God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Did Adam have free will? If not, then did God breathe into man’s nostrils and soul not to have free will and be totally depraved? And why? Was this God’s intention from before the creation itself?

But can God's free will freely choose to do that which is diametrically opposed to His holy nature?

 

[Rufus]

I wish you could make sense.

Translate: Act 4:27-28 is a very tough challenge to FWT and is above my pay grade to answer Rufus' question.

P.S Why don't you put out an APB to all your vaunted bible scholars to see if they can supply you with a coherent answer, and then get back to us with their reply.

 

[cv5]

You do realise your feeding him ?

And I'm not surprised he would insult jehova witnesses seeing as there witnesses for God.

What is the significance of this admission? Sympathy for JW's wholly unbiblical dogma?
JW's literally get it all wrong. 100% wrong 100% of the time.

 

[cv5]

But can God's free will freely choose to do that which is diametrically opposed to His holy nature?

Rahab FREELY made RIGHT CHOICES. And enjoyed the blessings thereof.

Jos 6:17
“Now the city shall be doomed by the LORD to destruction, it and all who are in it. Only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all who are with her in the house, because she hid the ***messengers*** that we sent.

Mat 1:5
Salmon begot Boaz by Rahab, Boaz begot Obed by Ruth, Obed begot Jesse,

 

[Rufus]

[Exo 17:14-16 KJV] 14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write this [for] a memorial in a book, and rehearse [it] in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.

15 And Moses built an altar, and called the name of it Jehovahnissi:

16 For he said, Because the LORD hath sworn [that] the LORD [will have] war with Amalek from generation to generation.

What does the above texts have to do with my question about Jesus and his numerous use of questions in his teaching methodology?

 

[Rufus]

Rahab FREELY made RIGHT CHOICES. And enjoyed the blessings thereof.

Jos 6:17
“Now the city shall be doomed by the LORD to destruction, it and all who are in it. Only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all who are with her in the house, because she hid the ***messengers*** that we sent.

Mat 1:5
Salmon begot Boaz by Rahab, Boaz begot Obed by Ruth, Obed begot Jesse,

Did not Rahab believe by grace? Or did her nature differ from the rest of humanity's?

 

[Genez]

Paul was not predestined for salvation in his mother’s womb. That’s not what Galatians is teaching. He was called by God’s grace out of his mother’s womb, but can a baby answer a call when they come out of the womb? No. A baby cannot answer a call, so it cannot mean what Calvinists force it to mean.

The Big Question is....

How did God, in his mind in eternity past, create us without knowingly creating us to be hard-wired to believe in Him?
Or to automatically reject Him?

The Key to that mystery had been revealed to us by the Second member of the Trinity.

For Jesus (the Son of God) revealed in the Incarnation that he has the ability to choose to function as a man,
having placed his powers of Deity on hold, while experiencing what it is like to be a man.
Having no omniscience when in that state of being... handing all powers of Deity over to the Father and Holy Spirit
while in that state of being.

For by Him {Jesus Christ} were all things created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, ​

whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers - all things were created ​

through Him {Jesus Christ}, and for Him." Colossians 1:16​

And?
All things created were created for, and through, him!!!

Why through him?
Why for him?

In his state of making himself be as a man, He could not know how we would choose when in that state of limiting himself to be as a man! In creating us, He only desired for all those created would share with the Father the same love He has known with the Father.

In that way?
God was able to create real lives.
And not simply puppets to play and entertain himself with.

grace and peace .................

 

[Genez]

What does the above texts have to do with my question about Jesus and his numerous use of questions in his teaching methodology?

If you are so smart as you pretend to be?
Why are they remaining as questions to you?
They should not.

 

[Genez]

yiu should get out more often, your a hermit

Again...

Do you know that the Jehovah Witnesses deny the Deity of Christ?

You are being the hermit if you did not know that.

 

[Rufus]

@OLDBUTNEW
Here is the danger of Calvinism. Please read this with an open mind.

The Danger of Calvinism [When applied consistently and logically]

1. If Calvinism is correct and God decreed/ordained/predestined every single event to happen, then that would mean He is directly and personally responsible for every rape, murder, liar, molester, thievery, idolater, drunkard, junkie, sorcerer, atheist, Satanist, terrorist, human genocide, etc etc. He would be responsible for every single evil that has ever walked the face of the planet…you name it…He decreed/ordained it to happen due to Calvinism. And that is utter blasphemy.

2. This doctrine is making God the author of evil/sin/wickedness. It’s a very ungodly doctrine that has people to be lost when they had no choice in the matter due to God purposefully choosing them to be lost. It makes God a respecter of persons, and has Him being very unjust which is completely opposite of a loving and Holy God. On judgment day, as they are being cast into the lake of fire, they should say “NOOOO!!! I DIDN’T HAVE A CHANCE!! It’s not MY fault!! YOU didn’t give ME the ABILITY to CHOOSE!!!” Calvinism’s God simply says “Tough…you can’t and couldn’t do a thing about it because those were the cards that were stacked against you and those are the cards that I dealt you.”

3. According to consistent Calvinists, nothing happens outside of God’s will and we can’t do anything outside of His will. Everything that happens is because it has been decreed before the world ever began. So, when a child gets molested is that God’s will? Is the molester doing the will of God by doing that sin that they were decreed to do? If the molester does not do that, then would the molester be going outside of God’s will that the molester was decreed to do? If a good Samaritan stops the molester from doing a sin, then the good Samaritan that stops them would be going against what God has decreed the molester to do, or whoever else that is sinning. Such a sick and blasphemous doctrine.

4. How does anyone know what God has decreed if people are told to stop doing something when God has decreed it? Would a Christian be wrong for telling a sinner who was decreed by God to sin to stop sinning? Would the decree of God have a Christian stop a sinner from sinning interfere or go outside God’s will with His decree to have a sinner commit sin? In other words, their doctrine has God contradicting Himself in what He has decreed. This doctrine makes no sense at all.

5. Did God decree all of this to happen? Did He decree me to type and post this? If He did, then is it wrong what I believe? If it is, then did God decree something wrong since I strongly disagree with Calvinism? If Calvinists disagree, then were they decreed to disagree with what God decreed of me to believe? Everyone would be going against what God decrees according to Calvinism. If some are unconditionally chosen to have eternal life, then why bother preaching the gospel? Why bother giving us the Bible? Why did Jesus have to die if some are already unconditionally saved?

6. If everything is predestined by God, then why bother telling a sinner they are in the wrong since they are doing what God predestined, decreed, and or ordained them to do or believe in the first place?

7. The doctrine of Calvinism makes God into an evil tyrant that is unmerciful and is not the God of the Bible. Why would it matter to Calvinists how anyone acts if God has decreed/ordained them to act like that? Would they now be saying what God has decreed to be wrong with how someone acts? Why would anyone have to justify their behavior if God is the one who decreed it? If God decreed it, then would that not make it justifiable?

8. If we do what God has decreed of us by telling Calvinists they are in biblical error, then we would be doing what God wants us to do since we have been decreed to do that. And at the same time, they would be telling us we are in biblical error, as they would feel they would be doing what God wants them to do since they claim He decreed them to do that, which once again is making God decree things differently, which is making God essentially decree against Himself. Who can believe it?

9. Their own theology (when taking logically and consistently) is everything that we do is simply what God makes us do or forces us to do--including not to believe Calvinism. It’s God’s fault for having some to think the way they do about Calvinism, all while the Calvinists are mad because people who believe differently than them are only doing what God decreed me and others to do. Was God wrong in decreeing people to be this way?

10. We are made in the image of God. How can we be made in the image of God if we are born sinners and how can our soul and spirit come from God if we are born sinners, i.e. child of the devil? What part of us is born totally depraved? What part of man is made in the image of God and what part of man is born in sin? Did God have some to be made in His image, yet have them be as children of the devil at birth??

11. The logical conclusion to their doctrine is nothing more than utter blasphemy.

Scriptural refutation of Calvinism: The Bible tells us to diligently seek Him (Heb. 11:6). If we don’t have the ability to seek God, then why would the author of the book of Hebrews tell us to diligently seek Him? We are told to seek the Lord (Acts 17:27, Old Testament example, Deut. 4:29). Other passages that tells us to seek are Matthew 6:33 (seek the kingdom of God), Matthew 7:7 (seek and ye shall find).

How was the angel of God able to give Cornelius a vision telling him to send for Peter, and the Spirit telling Peter three men (I believe one of them being Cornelius) are said to have seeked after Peter (Acts 10:19), when the Spirit was not poured on Cornelius and his kin until after Peter got there (Acts 10:44)? If it takes a direct operation by the Spirit to seek God, then how did Cornelius do this before the Spirit fell on him and the other Gentiles, and gave them the abilities to speak in tongues?

If we are so depraved and we can’t seek after God, then why are there passages telling us to “come”? (Rev. 22:17, Matthew 11:28). If we don’t have the ability to choose since we are depraved, then why are there passages telling us to choose? (OT: Deut. 30:9 “choose life”, Joshua 24:15 “choose you this day whom ye will serve”)

The Bible says Christ died for all men (1 John 2:2, 2 Cor. 5:15, etc etc). For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life (John 3:16). He wants all to be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim. 2:4). The limited atonement view believes He only died for the elect.

“Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.” (Acts 7:51). We can, and we do have free will to resist.

There were some in the church of Galatia who were being warned what would happen if they leave Christ, or if they had already rejected Christ to return to the law of Moses, which caused them to have fallen from grace Gal. 5:3-4). I would say some had rejected Christ because Galatians 1:6 says “I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel”, and I believe Paul was also warning the others of what would happen if they had done this. Some might say Gal. 5:3-4 doesn’t apply today since no one returns back to the law of Moses, but for our time the result would be the same to anyone who remove themselves from Christ. The result would be they fall from grace. (Gal. 5:4).

The Hebrews author said “Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?” (Heb. 10:29)

“Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God…” (Heb. 12:15)

Now, does this sound like the God of the Bible to you? Does the God of the Bible have us to be born sinners, damned in sin to the point we can’t believe, choose or seek Him unless God chooses us to be able? Does the God of the Bible unconditionally elect who will be saved and lost with no choice of their own? Did the God of the Bible have Jesus to die for all men or only the elect? Did He not give us free will to reject grace? Does the God of the Bible not warn us about the danger of apostasy?

Why even bother telling others to place faith in God if they don’t have the ability without God giving it to them? I strongly urge anyone who believes in Calvinism to repent!

Please apply your premise to point #1 above with respect to Act 4:27-28 and tell us how God cannot be morally culpable to the murder of his own Son. I asked this question yesterday in 24,242.

 

[Genez]

Is Jordan a JW?

Toto might have pulled the curtain back on him.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Second agreement where on a roll

So Jesus was in the Garden was he watching to see if they would accept life

God's plan of redemption was put in place before the foundation of the world ... God knew satan would approach Eve ... God knew Eve would fall for satan's deception ... God knew Adam would eat of the tree ...

Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years

This was Day 4 ... the "signs, seasons, days, and years" is not just spring, summer, fall, winter. The heavens signal things to come, appointed times, sacred seasons.

Who travelled from the east to see Him Who was born King of the Jews ? ... what did they see ? ... why did they come ?

Matthew 2:1-2 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

.

 

[Genez]

Rev 21:1 only knows of one new heavens and new earth, not two.

You should replace that missing lens on your glasses.
You keep seeing only one side.

 

[Rufus]

If you are so smart as you pretend to be?
Why are they remaining as questions to you?
They should not.

Because no matter how smart I may be lame, non-squitur replies by dimly lit light bulbs rightfully do not compute.

 

[Genez]

When the men in white come for you, let me know. I'll come visit.

Only if they allow you out of your cell.

 

[cv5]

Paul was not predestined for salvation in his mother’s womb. That’s not what Galatians is teaching. He was called by God’s grace out of his mother’s womb, but can a baby answer a call when they come out of the womb? No. A baby cannot answer a call, so it cannot mean what Calvinists force it to mean.

Of course you are correct.
But understand that being inculcated into the error of Calvinism demands a mind-wipe lobotomy whereby sound judgment and rational thinking are surgically removed.

 

[Rufus]

Paul was not predestined for salvation in his mother’s womb. That’s not what Galatians is teaching. He was called by God’s grace out of his mother’s womb, but can a baby answer a call when they come out of the womb? No. A baby cannot answer a call, so it cannot mean what Calvinists force it to mean.

But the fact that all of God's decrees are eternal, it was certain that Paul would one day awaken to that call; for nothing in this universe can thwart God's will.

 

[cv5]

If you are so smart as you pretend to be?
Why are they remaining as questions to you?
They should not.

Right. The Calvinists are full of questions, the vast majority being ludicrous and betray their vast Biblical illiteracy.

 

[Rufus]

Only if they allow you out of your cell.

I was set free from my imprisonment nearly a half century ago. What's your excuse?