Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Jordon said:
1) But the real truth is there witnesses for God, so when a witnesses for God of the jw clan, see you and they testify to Jesus being your saviour that's when there a witness for God.

2) But like all the other children of God when there confronted with people attacking them like you, they just realise your nothing more than a Mr know it all
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1) false. They do not.
2) false. They are not in the sense of being saved by believing on His Name.

Jhn 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
 
Genez said:
The Big Question is....

How did God, in his mind in eternity past, create us without knowingly creating us to be hard-wired to believe in Him?
Or to automatically reject Him?

The Key to that mystery had been revealed to us by the Second member of the Trinity.

For Jesus (the Son of God) revealed in the Incarnation that he has the ability to choose to function as a man,
having placed his powers of Deity on hold, while experiencing what it is like to be a man.
Having no omniscience when in that state of being... handing all powers of Deity over to the Father and Holy Spirit
while in that state of being.

For by Him {Jesus Christ} were all things created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, ​
whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers - all things were created ​
through Him {Jesus Christ}, and for Him." Colossians 1:16​

And?
All things created were created for, and through, him!!!

Why through him?
Why for him?

In his state of making himself be as a man, He could not know how we would choose when in that state of limiting himself to be as a man! In creating us, He only desired for all those created would share with the Father the same love He has known with the Father.

In that way?
God was able to create real lives.
And not simply puppets to play and entertain himself with.

grace and peace .................
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What a large steaming pile of horse manure! Have you never read Jn 2:24-25? :rolleyes:

What about all the Jewish and Gentile "puppets" in Act 4:27-28 whose strings were pulled by God so that they would conspire together and murder his Son?
 
BillyBob said:
No, I must admit that I do not call them evil. I only question their understanding. . . .
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there's a difference between telling someone there acting like a numbskull for one day then there refusal to stop having me seen as calvinist every single day for weeks mate

And they only see Calvinists as evil people
 
cv5 said:
1) false. They do not.
2) false. They are not in the sense of being saved by believing on His Name.

Jhn 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
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they refers to all and you often call everyone they
 
Jordon said:
Ok we differ here doesn't matter tho, I don't believe satan was in the garden.

But the serpent still acted like satan.

But anyway I would rather not discuss that, I actually like you despite are difference in faith your very honest and respectful most of the time.

I was hoping maybe you could realise that since Jesus is the tree of life in the garden he was offering then salvation but they rejected,
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But A&E were both in the Garden when they sinned, so how could the possessed serpent not also be in there with them?
 
Blue155 said:
Yes, I’m able to comprehend the real truth of what me and so many people are doing here. Refuting a false gospel. Please show me from the Bible where any of His children adhered to TULIP or Reformed Theology.
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no your not your only able to comprehend your justification for calling whom you like evil
 
Jordon said:
there's a difference between telling someone there acting like a numbskull for one day then there refusal to stop having me seen as calvinist every single day for weeks mate

And they only see Calvinists as evil people
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I agree, and gave Genez a thumbs down for telling you that you do not belong on the forum. . . .
 
BillyBob said:
Both our spirit and our flesh are weak! I believe that when scripture speaks of being born in iniquity, it means that both are in need of help.
You can not totally separate the two in this life because they are at war with each other and that will never cease in this life.
This does not indicate that our physical body is of itself evil, but rather that the desires of the "flesh" are what create opposition to the Spirit. The question should be, from where does this evil desire come?
It is clear that God cares for both body and soul, since He heals the physically sick as well as renews us by the Holy Spirit.
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Right...in the fall, all facets of man were corrupted. All need redemption.
 
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Jordon said:
Ok we differ here doesn't matter tho, I don't believe satan was in the garden.
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Ezekiel 28:13-15

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.




Jordon said:
But the serpent still acted like satan.
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Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years




Jordon said:
But anyway I would rather not discuss that, I actually like you despite are difference in faith your very honest and respectful most of the time.

I was hoping maybe you could realise that since Jesus is the tree of life in the garden he was offering then salvation but they rejected,
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agree they should have eaten from the tree of life rather than the tree of knowledge of good and evil ... but that is not what they did.

satan deceived Eve and she ate ... Adam ate and joined his wife in her fallen state ... God declared His promise ...

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

... and God made sacrifice for the sin of Adam and Eve and provided coats of skin to cover the shame of their sin ...

Genesis 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

.
 
Blue155 said:
So man prevented God from being able to make man with free will?
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in my view God created man with his will. But he created them with freedom of thought.
Coz if he had created them with there own will, he could not judge them.


Theres a difference between thought and will

The will man has now has got corrupted since sin entered there nature it poisoned the seed of man.
 
reneweddaybyday said:
Ezekiel 28:13-15

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.





Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years





agree they should have eaten from the tree of life rather than the tree of knowledge of good and evil ... but that is not what they did.

satan deceived Eve and she ate ... Adam ate and joined his wife in her fallen state ... God declared His promise ...

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

... and God made sacrifice for the sin of Adam and Eve and provided coats of skin to cover the shame of their sin ...

Genesis 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

.
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Yep it says not only was he anointed in the garden he was also anointed at the time when Moses was at the mountain God, there's a huge amount of time there, wouldn't you say.

There only possibilities that you mention.

Theres many that people mention

The serpent was possessed

The serpent was satan

The serpent was a crafty animal

The serpent ate from the tree of knowledge first before eve

I just wonder tho why should one possibility be any more valid than the other ?

It's because folk law gets imprinted in beliefs is my best guess
 
reneweddaybyday said:
agree they should have eaten from the tree of life rather than the tree of knowledge of good and evil ... but that is not what they did.

.
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we both agree Jesus was the tree of life

But I wonder are you unsure if Jesus was offering them salvation in the garden.

Or to look at another are you unsure if they where already saved in the garden


Just to touch on something you said even tho God knows the future.

Life still has to take it's cause.
 
Blue155 said:
So man prevented God from being able to make man with free will?
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No. Thanks to man's disobedience, we have lost the ability to please God.
Now “every imagination of the thoughts of his heart are only evil” (Gen 6:5).
The Bible clearly and consistently teaches (1) man is free to do good or evil, that he is at liberty to do either, but (2) that he is able to do only evil because of his fallen condition.
** G I Williamson **
 
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