Salvation: A doctrinal dilemma

[Blue155]

You are just trolling at this point.

Would you like to post this in your AI format? Or are you afraid you will lose credibility? Thus, you are trying to save face by accusing someone else of using it, as well as accusing them of trolling.

Go on..plug this in your program: “Have I been using AI in an irresponsible way to get responses, formulate arguments, just so I can simply respond or reply to posts, instead of using it responsibly? Have I been using AI in a manner that simply submits another’s post, then copies and pastes what AI has given me without even attempting to understand the others position, as well as even trying to understand AI’s responses?”

 

[LightBearer316]

@Blue155 At least one good thing came from all this — forum members will be far more discerning about anything you contribute from here on.

Your true character and Christian walk have spoken louder than your words ever could.

Grace and peace.

 

[Blue155]

@Blue155 At least one good thing came from all this — forum members will be far more discerning about anything you contribute from here on.

Your true character and Christian walk have spoken louder than your words ever could.

Grace and peace.

Would you like to post this in your AI format? Or are you afraid you will lose credibility? Thus, you are trying to save face by accusing someone else of using it.

Go on..plug this in your program: “Have I been using AI in an irresponsible way to get responses, formulate arguments, just so I can simply respond or reply to posts, instead of using it responsibly? Have I been using AI in a manner that simply submits another’s post, then copies and pastes what AI has given me without even attempting to understand the others position, as well as even trying to understand AI’s responses?”

 

[LightBearer316]

 

[DJT_47]

Belief is distinct from multiple acts of obedience, which follow belief, yet we still obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. (Romans 10:16)

Keep twisting things to try to save face when you're obviously wrong and know that you are. You believe your own blah blah. Right is and always will be right and
likewise is wrong, and you're always wrong but can't bring yourself to admit it.

 

[mailmandan]

Keep twisting things to try to save face when you're obviously wrong and know that you are. You believe your own blah blah. Right is and always will be right and
likewise is wrong, and you're always wrong but can't bring yourself to admit it.

That's your rebuttal? What did I twist? Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” The truth is obvious. You simply refuse to see it.

 

[LightBearer316]

Keep twisting things to try to save face when you're obviously wrong and know that you are. You believe your own blah blah. Right is and always will be right and
likewise is wrong, and you're always wrong but can't bring yourself to admit it.

When the discussion leaves Scripture and turns into personal insults, it stops being about truth and starts being about pride.

I’ll stay focused on what the Word actually says — not on who can shout the loudest.

Grace and peace.

 

[Me_Clay]

Salvation never a doctrinal dilemma

Men are too silly to understand God

Psalm 14:2 The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. 3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

 

[Inquisitor]

I think your Ai model got your facts incorrect because it makes it seem that you are trying to reframe John 3:36 to support the “faith = obedience” equation — which is a subtle Oneness or baptismal-regeneration move. It’s a linguistic argument meant to smuggle works into justification by redefining “believe” to mean “obey.”

John 3:36 is a key verse, but context and grammar matter.

The contrast isn’t between “believing and obeying” as identical ideas — it’s between the one who believes (present participle πιστεύων) and the one who refuses to believe (ἀπειθῶν, literally “disbelieves,” “is unpersuaded”).

The word apeitheō doesn’t mean “to obey works,” but “to refuse belief or compliance.” The issue is unbelief, not the absence of deeds.

Faith produces obedience as fruit (Romans 1:5 KJV; James 2), but faith itself is not defined by obedience — it’s defined unto obedience.

That distinction keeps salvation by grace through faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV) intact while preserving obedience as the natural outcome of genuine belief.

Grace and peace.

Your statement below is the critical point and is the most confused doctrine in Christianity.

That distinction keeps salvation by grace through faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV) intact while
preserving obedience as the natural outcome of genuine belief.

1) We are saved only by grace through faith in Jesus (Ephesians 2:8).

2) Which is chained to perseverance, fruit, works, and love above all (the entire N.T)

Both statements 1) and 2) are, in fact, the primary doctrine of Christianity.

Perseverance, fruit, works, and love above all is the proof that you believe.

What you believe is what you do.

In the N.T you cannot separate faith from love.

 

[LightBearer316]

Your statement below is the critical point and is the most confused doctrine in Christianity.

That distinction keeps salvation by grace through faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV) intact while
preserving obedience as the natural outcome of genuine belief.

1) We are saved only by grace through faith in Jesus (Ephesians 2:8).

2) Which is chained to perseverance, fruit, works, and love above all (the entire N.T)

Both statements 1) and 2) are, in fact, the primary doctrine of Christianity.

Perseverance, fruit, works, and love above all is the proof that you believe.

What you believe is what you do.

In the N.T you cannot separate faith from love.

I agree that perseverance, fruit, and love are all part of the Christian life, but Scripture is careful to keep cause and result distinct. We’re saved by grace through faith, not by the chain that follows faith. The fruit doesn’t make the tree alive — it proves it is.

The obedience, works, and love you mentioned are the natural outflow of genuine belief, not conditions that secure salvation. Romans 4:5 KJV puts it plainly: “To him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.”

Faith and love do walk hand in hand, but one is the root, and the other is the bloom. Salvation starts at belief — everything else grows from that life in Christ.

Grace and peace.
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”

 

[Inquisitor]

I agree that perseverance, fruit, and love are all part of the Christian life, but Scripture is careful to keep cause and result distinct. We’re saved by grace through faith, not by the chain that follows faith. The fruit doesn’t make the tree alive — it proves it is.

The obedience, works, and love you mentioned are the natural outflow of genuine belief, not conditions that secure salvation. Romans 4:5 KJV puts it plainly: “To him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.”

Faith and love do walk hand in hand, but one is the root, and the other is the bloom. Salvation starts at belief — everything else grows from that life in Christ.

Grace and peace.
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”

The wider context matters.

The problem you have when you separate faith from love is that they are one in essence.

Romans 8:12–13
So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh… For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Please explain what Paul is saying here?

 

[DJT_47]

Salvation never a doctrinal dilemma

Men are too silly to understand God

Psalm 14:2 The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. 3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

It is a doctrinal dilemma because the silliness of man has turned it into one.

 

[Me_Clay]

It is a doctrinal dilemma because the silliness of man has turned it into one.

Yes

 

[Jordon]

Blue155 isn’t actually engaging my scriptural content at all. He’s doubling down on the same circular accusation (“plug this into your AI program”) instead of addressing Acts 10:43–47, Titus 3:5, 1 Peter 3:21, or Ephesians 2:8–9 — the heart of the discussion.

At this point, it’s clear you have no interest in the Scriptures themselves. Every time verses are brought up, you turn back to AI accusations instead of responding to what the Word says.
I’ll keep standing on Scripture — you can keep speculating if you’d like. But I’m done going in circles.
“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword…” — Hebrews 4:12 KJV

You have lost all credibility on this forum.

Grace and peace.

It's a funny thing I told him the exact same thing in another thread, and ive also notice what you have,

I would just be happy if people could actually share there beliefs, before questioning yours, or at least ask if they can have a discussion with you about there faith or yours, I don't see it much, I just see people's faith getting questioned all the time.