None! Of course, this doesn't mean that God hasn't been transforming my life for nearly 45 years now either. By God's grace, I am not the same person I was prior to God rescuing me from the devil's kingdom of darkness.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
None! Of course, this doesn't mean that God hasn't been transforming my life for nearly 45 years now either. By God's grace, I am not the same person I was prior to God rescuing me from the devil's kingdom of darkness.
"I was uniquely regenerated so that I could believe, I am specially chosen to receive this gift."The subtle is most disturbing.
I also find the attempts to repackage Calvinism, trim off the rough edges, make it more palatable, also something people need to be very aware of... tis true Calvinism appeals to the flesh >>>> "I was uniquely regenerated so that I could believe, I am specially chosen to receive this gift."
That is practically flawlessly verbatim, in near-perfect accord to the many unambiguous declarations by certain posters (you know who they are) on this thread.....
happy to hear God has rescued you from the devil's kingdom of darkness ... on the other hand do you believe you have behaved in this thread as a Holy Spirit led unique one?
.
Well...Good Morning all you proud, man-exalting, Adam-worshiping FWers. In this post I'm going to explain why the Heb. term "zera" (Strong's 2233) used twice in Gen 3:15 is singular in number in both cases. The short explanation is because the writer used the term in the corporate/collective sense! But this premise will require a little longer explication from stated NT principles, proving once again how critically important it is to use sound hermeneutical principles to understand the OT in the scheme of progressive revelation. So...buckle yourselves up tightly because you FWers will likely go spastic on me before I'm done!
First of all, we know that there are two kinds of people in this world: Those who die in Adam and those who die in the Last Adam (Rom 5:12ff; 1Cor 15:12ff.) Both Adams are the Federal Head of their respective people. Both Adams are each ONE person; yet, there are many in each of the One!
More solid proof of this fact is also found in Gal 3 wherein Paul makes the point that the promised blessing to the nations would come through ONE seed (i.e. Christ); yet at the same time Gen 15, 17 etc., while also employing the same Heb. term mentioned above, makes it abundantly clear that MANY would be blessed in or through this ONE seed. Even in Gal 3:29, Paul makes this crystal clear, stating to the church in Galatia that "if you belong to Christ YOU are (editorial alert, editorial alert) [also] Abraham's seed" (the many in one corporate concept).
Furthermore, Jesus himself spoke to the Pharisees in Jn 8 re this idea of not belonging to God and because they did not belong to God, Jesus told them that their [spiritual] father was the devil (vv. 39-47). Just this one passage alone should tell any honest interpreter how to interpret both seeds in Gen 3:15, since the devil has more than one seed! And since this is the case, it's very likely that the woman's seed also consists of many! So, now let's apply this concept of ownership (belonging) to this Genesis passage.
By God explicitly decreeing enmity between the woman and the devil, He implicitly reconciled Eve unto Himself in Gen 3:15, thereby removing the enmity between Him and the woman that she created by her sin. He befriended her! He essentially told the Serpent that the woman you deceived is Mine! She belongs to Me! You cannot have her!
But what of Adam? To whom did he belong!? He's totally missing in the divine decree! Adam cannot possibly be included in the woman's seed since to talk of her seed is to speak to her spiritual descendant(s). The promised Messianic seed was still in the woman's future, so this rules Adam out, since the woman proceeded from him. But Gen 3:15 is talking about an offspring who would proceed from the woman herself! Therefore, Adam can only belong to the Serpent's seed! There is no third option! The Law of Logic called Excluded Middle also applies here!
Moreover, just as Adam was clearly omitted from the decree in 3:15, likewise the befriended, reconciled woman was excluded from the expressed anger of the Lord that moved Him to drive Adam out from his Holy Presence in the Garden (3:22-24). And one will be very hard-pressed to find the rendering of the Heb term "garash" (Strong's 1644) ever used as an action against God-fearing believers! And this is why Eve is excluded in this passage! God, on the other hand, clearly did not think that Adam belonged in his Holy Presence in the Garden any longer! And we can know for certain by use of the definite articles in v. 23, and that God's anger was directed solely at Adam since he was banished from the Garden to work the ground from which he was taken! But Eve was not taken from the ground; she was taken from Adam's side!
And this brings me to this very important observation: Just as the Brazen Serpent incident in the Wilderness in Num 21 is a graphic illustration of the truth taught in Rom 9:21, likewise A&E are also such an illustration! Eve was not taken from a separate piece of ground in the Garden but was taken from the "clay" of Adam! She proceeded from the Adam "lump"! And God treated them both differently! In Eve's case, He chose her to be a vessel for honorable use; while in Adam's case, He chose him to be an vessel used for dishonorable use. Eve was used to bring godly seed into this world (the most prominent seed of all the Messiah who would come), while Adam was used as Satan's Agent of Death; for Adam alone is charged with mankind's ruin and destruction.
Therefore, this lame, anemic rebuttal of singular seeds in Gen 3:15 holds no water whatsoever. It's as weak as the objection based on Gen 3:21; for one will not find a scintilla of evidence that Adam ever repented and came to faith! Plus if one is going to use this verse as "positive proof" of A&E's salvation that is based solely on God's atoning provision of animal skin coverings for their sins, then we have universal salvation taught in scripture, since God would have been saving all humanity by that one work and provision of atonement.
First of all, we know that there are two kinds of people in this world: Those who die in Adam and those who die in the Last Adam (Rom 5:12ff; 1Cor 15:12ff.) Both Adams are the Federal Head of their respective people. Both Adams are each ONE person; yet, there are many in each of the One!
More solid proof of this fact is also found in Gal 3 wherein Paul makes the point that the promised blessing to the nations would come through ONE seed (i.e. Christ); yet at the same time Gen 15, 17 etc., while also employing the same Heb. term mentioned above, makes it abundantly clear that MANY would be blessed in or through this ONE seed. Even in Gal 3:29, Paul makes this crystal clear, stating to the church in Galatia that "if you belong to Christ YOU are (editorial alert, editorial alert) [also] Abraham's seed" (the many in one corporate concept).
Furthermore, Jesus himself spoke to the Pharisees in Jn 8 re this idea of not belonging to God and because they did not belong to God, Jesus told them that their [spiritual] father was the devil (vv. 39-47). Just this one passage alone should tell any honest interpreter how to interpret both seeds in Gen 3:15, since the devil has more than one seed! And since this is the case, it's very likely that the woman's seed also consists of many! So, now let's apply this concept of ownership (belonging) to this Genesis passage.
By God explicitly decreeing enmity between the woman and the devil, He implicitly reconciled Eve unto Himself in Gen 3:15, thereby removing the enmity between Him and the woman that she created by her sin. He befriended her! He essentially told the Serpent that the woman you deceived is Mine! She belongs to Me! You cannot have her!
But what of Adam? To whom did he belong!? He's totally missing in the divine decree! Adam cannot possibly be included in the woman's seed since to talk of her seed is to speak to her spiritual descendant(s). The promised Messianic seed was still in the woman's future, so this rules Adam out, since the woman proceeded from him. But Gen 3:15 is talking about an offspring who would proceed from the woman herself! Therefore, Adam can only belong to the Serpent's seed! There is no third option! The Law of Logic called Excluded Middle also applies here!
Moreover, just as Adam was clearly omitted from the decree in 3:15, likewise the befriended, reconciled woman was excluded from the expressed anger of the Lord that moved Him to drive Adam out from his Holy Presence in the Garden (3:22-24). And one will be very hard-pressed to find the rendering of the Heb term "garash" (Strong's 1644) ever used as an action against God-fearing believers! And this is why Eve is excluded in this passage! God, on the other hand, clearly did not think that Adam belonged in his Holy Presence in the Garden any longer! And we can know for certain by use of the definite articles in v. 23, and that God's anger was directed solely at Adam since he was banished from the Garden to work the ground from which he was taken! But Eve was not taken from the ground; she was taken from Adam's side!
And this brings me to this very important observation: Just as the Brazen Serpent incident in the Wilderness in Num 21 is a graphic illustration of the truth taught in Rom 9:21, likewise A&E are also such an illustration! Eve was not taken from a separate piece of ground in the Garden but was taken from the "clay" of Adam! She proceeded from the Adam "lump"! And God treated them both differently! In Eve's case, He chose her to be a vessel for honorable use; while in Adam's case, He chose him to be an vessel used for dishonorable use. Eve was used to bring godly seed into this world (the most prominent seed of all the Messiah who would come), while Adam was used as Satan's Agent of Death; for Adam alone is charged with mankind's ruin and destruction.
Therefore, this lame, anemic rebuttal of singular seeds in Gen 3:15 holds no water whatsoever. It's as weak as the objection based on Gen 3:21; for one will not find a scintilla of evidence that Adam ever repented and came to faith! Plus if one is going to use this verse as "positive proof" of A&E's salvation that is based solely on God's atoning provision of animal skin coverings for their sins, then we have universal salvation taught in scripture, since God would have been saving all humanity by that one work and provision of atonement.
I'm a work in progress. God isn't done with this clay pot. Stay tuned...
But it grew back anyway!
You wouldn't say that if you knew me over 40 years ago.
My pastor, who taught from the Hebrew and Greek, once said something after he suddenly stopped mid-lesson.
Long pause. We heard only silence.
Then, he, quietly, began speaking again.
He said the following...
"Stupid." (pause)
"Dumb." (another pause)
Then.
Dumb - is incapable of getting something.
Stupid - will not get it.
In other words?
Stupid, is a willful choice not to get something.
When combined with being stubbornness?
It makes the stupid look dumb.
And... Good morning to you, sir!
"I am specially chosen"The subtle is most disturbing.
I also find the attempts to repackage Calvinism, trim off the rough edges, make it more palatable, also something people need to be very aware of... tis true Calvinism appeals to the flesh >>>> "I was uniquely regenerated so that I could believe, I am specially chosen to receive this gift."
"God hates everyone but me"
And yet another missed opportunity for you to share the Gospel with someone who you think is an unbeliever.You mean salvation isn't found in Adam -- scripture's super-duper, altruistic, self-sacrificing hero. I wonder why that is...
Can you even say the Lord Jesus Christ?
I hear lots of God and Sovereignty. But nary a word about the Lord Jesus Christ and His salvation.
You do know His very name IS salvation?
Amazing.
The pathology of hatred for Calvinism here is chronic.
And yet, in this case it affords opportunity to expose those who only pretend to know our faith.
1 Corinthians 2:12-14
Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit from God, that we may know the things having been granted to us by God, And this is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Sovereign
sovereign/sŏv′ər-ĭn, sŏv′rĭn/
noun
- One that exercises supreme, permanent authority, especially in a nation or other governmental unit, as.
- A king, queen, or other noble person who serves as chief of state; a ruler or monarch.
- A national governing council or committee.
I see no where in scripture where we are called to be tolerant of false doctrine.
That is why you get called out so often. Scripture says, the world cannot receive the spirit of truth. Your view is, it can. Scripture says the man of flesh (unregenerated) cannot submit to or obey God. Your view is, he can. Scripture says the natural man cannot receive the spiritual things of God. Your view is, he can. Scripture says the natural man cannot understand the spiritual things of God. Your view is, he can. Scripture says a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. Your view is, it can. Scripture says the natural man is opposed to the spiritual things of God. Your view is, he is not. Scripture says the gospel is hid. Your view is, the gospel is not hid. Jesus said not everyone hears. Your view is, everyone hears. Scripture says flesh serves the law of sin and brings forth fruit unto death. Your view is, the flesh can choose to make a decision a plethora of Scriptures say it cannot, to bring forth fruit unto life... to please God when Scripture says it cannot. Scripture says the devil has taken people captive to do his will. Your view is, man has a will that is free. Scripture says no man can come to God unless God draws them. Your view is, divine intervention is not necessary. Your view is, man has everything he needs to come to believe. Scripture makes plain certain things are only known through the Spirit and revelation which you continually denigrate. Scripture shows over and over again from Genesis all the way through to Revelation that God reveals Himself differently from one person to the next. Your view is, God is unfair if He were to reveal Himself in any way differently from one person to the next. Your view is those you disagree with should preach in cemeteries, then you lie about conflating spiritual death with physical death. Your view is to not only blaspheme God yourself, but agree with those who blaspheme God in other ways. Along with other free willers, you come across as despising God's sovereignty, and call Him doing things for His own purposes doing them for no good reason. No matter how you look at it, your theological stance on this issue directly contradicts and outright denies what the Bible explicitly articulates in a number of places, and you are not likely to change it any time soon because to bring your view into line with what Scripture actually teaches would bring your whole house of cards down, and demolish your vain self-exalting stance. You cannot have that, since you are far too attached to it. One could even say you were in love with it. You certainly love it more than the Truth of Scripture.
"I am specially chosen"
"God hates everyone but me"
Yup ...
exactly!!!Calvinists are humble.
Their doctrine is humble.
They are very humble.
Actually they are fiercely humble.
And they take GREAT PRIDE in their humility and the fact that they do not self-exalt themselves.
They totally miss the point. No, it's inherent in the premise of their soteriology.
"I'm better than you because God chose me and not you." Believing that does not make you humble no matter how much you try to express humility. It causes you to be arrogant.
Name 1 person on this site who claims to be better than others because they believe God chose them.Yup ...
Calvinists are humble.
Their doctrine is humble.
They are very humble.
Actually they are fiercely humble.
And they take GREAT PRIDE in their humility and the fact that they do not self-exalt themselves.
They totally miss the point. No, it's inherent in the premise of their soteriology.
"I'm better than you because God chose me and not you." Believing that does not make you humble no matter how much you try to express humility. It causes you to be arrogant.
You admit you're lost.
You should stop being a joiner then and refrain from the "calvie" no sense when you know nothing about Calvinism or,as you impart,the Gospel.
Psalm 62 v 1-2; Acts 4 v 12; Philippians 2 v 9 ~ In God alone my soul finds rest; my salvation comes from Him. He alone is my rock and my salvation. Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved. God gave Him the name above all names.