The Teachings of Paul (TOP)
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Well, #38 indicates that God wills to view believers as His spiritual children, #39 indicates that God wills for believers to suffer
for Christ, #40 indicates that God wills for believers to pray that His will be done, and #41 indicates that God wills for believers
to become like Jesus morally.
How do you answer your question?
Well what Paul says here sir is
For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[a] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good
Then the will of God is going against Paul, Gods will is living in him, willing him.
So now this is happening to Paul, and he's saved.
So how is it an unsaved person can do Good, what's at work in him ?
Has to be the same surely, Gods will ?
Yes, it is possible for atheists to imitate godly behavior without giving God the glory.
No that's not what I was talking about, I was talking about something else.
Was Paul saved on the way to Damascus when God used his will to deliver him to the lord, Paul was on his way to destroy the truth
When an unsaved person gets his conscience pricked by Gods message to them, by who's will is that
Well, you raise an interesting question: on what basis does God judge a person who only knew the OT?
I do not find in the accounts of Paul's Damascus Road experience any mention that he was lost as a Jew.
Instead, in Gal. 1:15 Paul said he was set apart by God from his mother's womb.
But was he saved at the point he was blinded for 3 days,
Acts 9:1-19
New International Version
Saul’s Conversion
9 Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord’s disciples. He went to the high priest 2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. 3 As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”
5 “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.
“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. 6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.
10 In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, “Ananias!”
“Yes, Lord,” he answered.
11 The Lord told him, “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. 12 In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.”
13 “Lord,” Ananias answered, “I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your holy people in Jerusalem. 14 And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name.”
15 But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.”
17 Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, 19 and after taking some food, he regained his strength.
all people are Judged for there bad deeds and Good deeds sir when ever at all times, that's obvious, so then how does a natural man unsaved with a heart of stone gets Judged for is bad deeds if he can't hear God, and no one does good not one, the simple way to start the answer sir is all have been judged already, everyman man born is destined for hell unless saved
Mankinds nature was judged initially, since none do good that means only God is good when it comes to the natural man, unsaved with a heart of stone, and saved to sir are judged this way to through out the old , as written and shown to you already, God has ways in which to make a person do Good with enough power in which he can judge a person by,
So how is it sir then a natural man can do Good unsaved and be judged , well I've answered this question sir already, it's called a pricked conscience sir, a gift from God, the unsaved are judged by it sir because the prick, pricks there conscience, no doubt for a unsaved person it puts fear into them, it will condemns them to , as they are not in Christ, for those in Christ there is no condemnation, so for those saved, when inner judgment strikes, and battles against the flesh there will be conviction, no condemnation, because conviction is an immediate act to do the right thing in which you act and change, where as condemnation for the unsaved from a pricked conscience will be a fear to them, in which they shall be judged by to.
The old testament was All about a give and take relationship with God, people believed in God out of fear and did Good for reward, as God was always rewarding people in the old t for good deeds done sir which means they where being Judged to, and even by there bad deeds. And All of this is by his will sir
Ok so now could you go back to answering my post above.
TOP #22: For Jews, obeying the Mosaic Law will serve as the basis of divine judgment. [Rom. 2:9-13&16] Verse 11 teaches that “God does not show favoritism” (cf. Eph. 6:9, Col. 3:25, 1Pet. 1:17).
Like Moses and all OT Jews, Paul was unaware of the Gospel until hearing Stephen's speech, but only God knows whether that was a good enough excuse.
Regarding your question: "But was he saved at the point he was blinded for 3 days?" Only God knows, but Gal. 1:15 indicates maybe so.
if your talking about him being saved before the foundations of the world when God looked at his whole life spent with God before he was born that's different, im asking at what point was he saved after the foundations of the world as in what point was he filled with the holy spirit,
As there is no way a murderous person of wanting to kill every Christian destroying truth could be saved, unless your going to tell me other wise ? Now he could have still been saved in Gods eyes as he knew his life, but God had not yet given Paul the act of conversion,
Either your willing to answer this time or I'm going to have to take it you like playing games.
As for your response all people are judged for every bad deed done, to know the lord is to fear the lord to in the old t.
But what your not knowing is it was the lords fear knowing them to
Only way to get through to wicked is to strike fear, which God the father did through out the old, but at the same time there was also compassion.
Also the world was judged before the gospel to, as the the world was destroyed by a flood when the lord said the people had become to wicked.
So no-one is without excuse.
I have been answering every time, but if you don't like the answers, then YOU are playing games,
wanting monologue instead of discussion, so why don't you answer your own questions?
Again, as for the question, "at what point was Paul saved?", Scripture does not say, but Galatians 1:15 indicates from birth.
Regarding "at what point was he filled with the holy spirit?", that would be in Acts 9:17-18.
Regarding how to convert the wicked, I agree that Scripture teaches two ways: the carrot of agape love
and the stick of a just hell. Not sure what made you say I did not know that.
I also agree that no one is without excuse and can explain why from Scripture. Would you want me to share that?
I'm playing games ok, well sir actually this is one of those scriptures that clearly says so
“Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, 19 and after taking some food, he regained his strength.
Obviously sir if you can't answer now then your interpretation of scripture and mine are miles apart and there would be absolutely no point in carrying on in this discussion any further
I obviously cited this passage in my answer, so again, I don't know what your beef is,
but I hope you are not one of those unhappy souls always seeking to quarrel.
If you are NOT seeking a quarrel, then you should agree that the passage states when Paul received the HS but NOT when he was saved.
Also, we might note that the killing of Christians was viewed by the Pharisees as obeying the OT law rather than as murder.
well what is my beef ? Well, home made beef burgers since you ask, but quarrels come and go
Ive more than made it clear to you, and you said you a wanted serious discussion
So I'll make it clear one last time and if you can't agree with my wording then, I don't see the point in continuing,
As are interpretation will be miles apart, and it will be a quarrel.
being saved before you receive the holy spirit, is God saving you.
When you have received the holy spirit your eternally saved at that point in your life.
Now once again the saving process before then, for you personally, you had not been eternally saved, you where getting put through the saving process.
So all tho God can declare you eternally saved before your born your not going know, only God knows,
You still have to reach the point in your life where you receive the holy spirit, this is how God knows you where eternally saved before you where born, he looks at your whole life spent with him, and he knows, but you still get put thought the saving process.
So in God's eye your saved, but in your eyes you don't know, so when your being put through the saving process, if you like others you reject his ways you don't receive the holy spirit.
This is clearly written in scripture.
.
Actually, you mostly share your opinion without citing Scriptures to support it,
so there is no point in continuing if all you want is to monologue rather than hear what GW has to say.
I am willing to hear your opinion, but it would be clearer if you would cite GW so I could understand why you say what you say.
When you have cited GW, such as Acts 9:1-19, we have clearly seen that it does not say when Paul was saved, but only when he received the HS, but you ignored Gal. 1:15.
Ok well that's one ways a quarrel can start I guess m,
If someone says to you your faith is your opinion, you could take offense and start quarreling. But then what i do is i take it to my heart and then i let my conscience be pricked.
What I write sir here is in scripture I'll show you
When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you
When Gods people heard the message there conscience was pricked if you see here sir look.
When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
So Gods word can prick the conscience sir for all people
well are you making something out of one sentence for than what it is.
Ok so let see
15 But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace
Did God call Paul by grace in his mothers womb.
And set him apart for what ?
Your answer is here as to what he was set apart for look.
But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.”
This is when he was called by grace.
Now before this calling of grace
He may well have loved God as a Jew as a child but that would have been God saving him sir.
Everyone's faith is their opinion, so there is no reason to take offense at that truth.
In the Acts passage you cited, we see people hearing the Gospel from Peter and asking how to be saved,
which is similar to what happened with Paul in Acts 16:30-31.
Although I always believed in God and Jesus, when I attained the age of understanding,
I also heard the Gospel, believed and was water baptized.
If you are agreeable with that, then I am happy.
Well I could be dumb here and ask you cite scripture that faith is an opinion, but noooo nooo noo.Everyone's faith is their opinion, so there is no reason to take offense at that truth.
In the Acts passage you cited, we see people hearing the Gospel from Peter and asking how to be saved,
which is similar to what happened with Paul in Acts 16:30-31.
Although I always believed in God and Jesus, when I attained the age of understanding,
I also heard the Gospel, believed and was water baptized.
If you are agreeable with that, then I am happy.
Faith is a gift. It starts with a healthy Godly fear, when God strikes a healthy fear into the unsaved the fear of lord not only trembles in them it makes them aware. It pricks there conscience to sir
Look here it is sir
28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we [a]may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For our God is a consuming fire.
And here
.The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding
And here
And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom;
How about faith is not sight/proof, therefore it must be opinion 2Cor. 5:7?
I don't know about you, but my father was very loving, so I had no problem believing that God was perfectly loving,
so I always believed in Him without fearing Him.
However, later in life I realized that those who reject the love of the Lord should fear experiencing a just hell,
so both love and fear should motivate an atheist to repent.