The Teachings of Paul (TOP)

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and then what ?

All parents can be unloving there human
And if I had given you the answer you where looking for about my parents, then what ? Would that give you the right to then decide my personality ?
Or give you more right to start talking to me more about my parent.
What would you have me do look back my parents life for wrong doings and publicly Shame my parents.
You know now that I've got your answer as to why you asked in the first place, and confirmed what I thought.
I feel even more obliged to put you on ignore.

I was looking for you to share your testimony as in 1Peter 3:15.
Your only obligation is to that verse. Mine is this:

I was raised by loving, Christian (Southern Baptist) parents, who were happily married for 70 years. I attended church regularly as a child, and about the age of eight I had enough courage to walk the aisle during an invitation and profess publicly my faith in Jesus by being baptized.

My personality was rather introverted as a teenager, so I discussed my beliefs only with a few close friends. When I was a senior in high school, my favorite teacher was a former preacher turned agnostic, and in my freshman year of college, the daughter of a missionary became an atheist. My ignorance of answers to questions asked by skeptics prompted me to read the entire Bible (NEB) making notes in the margins (which I repeated with three other versions over the years).

After college and military service I attended Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, where a professor of systematic theology, Dr. William Hendricks, stimulated my thinking, while I attended a satellite church that listened to tapes by R.B. Thieme, whose preaching was also systematic teaching. During this time I heard a debate on the radio between Christian evangelist Bob Harrington and atheist Madalyn Murray O’Hair. Although the exchange was quite humorous, I was chagrined to concede that the atheist won the debate on substance, and I determined to seek better replies to such questions and criticisms.

Years later as a military chaplain, I encountered the Atheist Community of Austin and offered to speak at one of their meetings. I also debated atheists on an online chat site for several years. Although I cannot claim to have converted anyone, the discussions helped hone my beliefs, which I published on a website, <truthseekersfellowship.com> in 2005. In 2018 and 2019 I self-published two booklets, The Best Belief and The Christian Creed, which are also on the website.

The following excerpts from “Love God with All Your Mind” by J.P. Moreland expresses my experience: “I used to be afraid of witnessing... I was rather defensive and nervous... But now I understand why I believe, and this has brought me both peace and a non-defensive boldness to witness to others.” (p.20) “Sunday School should be more effective in training believers how to think carefully about their faith. Training in apologetics should be a regular part of discipleship.” (p.26) “Our discipleship materials often leave Christian young people vulnerable to atheistic college professors.” (p.28) “The apostle Paul... reasoned with and tried to persuade people intelligently to accept Christ.” (p.30)

1 Peter 3:15b instructs Christians to “Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have…” (share one’s testimony), which I have now done.
 
I was looking for you to share your testimony as in 1Peter 3:15.
Your only obligation is to that verse.
you said I have shared my testimony, then you said was why aren't you sharing yours.

I would call that being forceful.
Does sharing your testimony mean, I have to realise it was a testimony when you don't even state it was,

Does sharing your testimony mean that I can't ?

Maybe you aren't sharing your testimony for the right reasons
 
you said I have shared my testimony, then you said was why aren't you sharing yours.

I would call that being forceful.
Does sharing your testimony mean, I have to realise it was a testimony when you don't even state it was,
Does sharing your testimony mean that I can't ?
Maybe you aren't sharing your testimony for the right reasons

I see we posted about the same time, so see my #221.
My reason for sharing is LIC.
 
I see we posted about the same time, so see my #221.
My reason for sharing is LIC.
And so everyone who tells you there parents have been unloving, are you sure it's not because they couldn't handle correction, or do you believe everyone who tells you there parents are unloving actually are unloving ?
 
And so everyone who tells you there parents have been unloving, are you sure it's not because they couldn't handle correction, or do you believe everyone who tells you there parents are unloving actually are unloving ?

There are so many varieties of parents and children that the question is too complicated to answer in general terms
other than to say that usually children accept the beliefs of their parents at least until they leave home.
 
There are so many varieties of parents and children that the question is too complicated to answer in general terms
other than to say that usually children accept the beliefs of their parents at least until they leave home.
Ok
 
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TOP #215: Respect those Christians who are over you in the Lord. [1Thes. 5:12-13] This must refer to church leaders, and their authority must be what Paul alluded to in v. 11, to “encourage one another and build each other up” (cf. 2Cor. 10:8 & 13:10). Such encouragement refers to the timid or weak in v.14.

>>>TOP #127: Spiritual warfare involves demolishing thoughts that are ungodly and anti-Christ. [2Cor. 10:3-5] Paul referred to his authority as an apostle of the Lord for building up believers, especially in the churches he had established by sharing the gospel of Christ (in 2Cor. 10:8-18).

TOP #216: Warn those who are idle. [1Thes. 5:14] This is elaborated in Paul’s second letter to the Thessalonians.

TOP #217: Christians should always be joyful (cf. Phil. 4:4), prayerful (Eph. 6:18) and thankful (Col. 3:15) in all circumstances. [1Thes. 5:16] This is akin to TOP #195, but it is a significant connecting of these three attitudes as related conscious choices.

>>>TOP #189: Christians should be glad or rejoice despite circumstances involving suffering. [Phil. 2:17-18, 3:1, 4:4 & 10-12] This is a theme in Philippians, beginning with 1:4, and it echoes Psalm 9:14.

>>>TOP #180: Pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers. [Eph. 6:18-20, Col. 4:2-4] The kinds of prayers found in Scripture include: confession, praise, thanksgiving, petition and intercession, which is the type of petition Paul requests be done for him.

>>>TOP #172: Always give thanks to God the Father for everything in the name of our LJC. [Eph. 5:20, Col. 3:15-17] This is also commanded in 1Thes. 5:18.

>>>TOP #195: Learn to be content whatever the circumstances. [Phil. 4:11-13] God will enable believers to endure anything.
 
TOP #218: Do not put out the Spirit’s fire or treat prophecies with contempt. [1Thes. 5:19] This apparent affirmation of emotion as a valid spiritual experience connected with prophecy should also be understood in connection with the prophecy of John the Baptist in Matthew 3:11-12, where "fire" refers to judgment (cf. 1Cor. 3:12-15). The fire that warms also burns.

However, the next TOP teaches us to test prophecies in order to see whether they jibe with Gospel truth and moral behavior.

TOP #219: Test everything and hold on to the good but avoid every evil. [1Thes. 5:21] Everything could include elements in extra-biblical cultures, which may have true insights regarding God and morality perceived via general revelation (cf. TOP #10 & 23). An example of Paul doing this may be seen when he was in Athens, where he commended religion, but then proclaimed what God commands and the day of judgment (Acts 17:22-31).
 
TOP #220: Christians need to be completely sanctified. [1Thes. 5:23-24] Elsewhere sanctification is spoken of as though it occurred completely at conversion (Rom. 15:16, 1Cor. 1:2 & 6:11), but here it seems to be an ongoing process beginning at conversion and continuing toward perfection until death, which makes sense or jibes with TOP #188 & 191.

>>>TOP #188: The goal of Christian faith is to become blameless. [Phil. 2:14-16] Note that being indwelt by the HS does not result in immediate actual perfection, which remains a lifelong goal (as Paul will teach in 3:12).

>>>TOP #191: Christians should behave in accordance with what they have learned as they continue to learn God’s will/word. [Phil. 3:15-17] Paul cites himself as an example. Those who habitually sin indicate that their profession of Christ is false (cf. TOP #167 & 211).

At this point the epistle ends with a brief charge for it to be read to the brethren. The second epistle begins with a greeting almost identical with that in the first and also by mentioning the prayer of thanksgiving by “we”, referring to Silas and Timothy who are also cited as co-senders of this letter. They are thankful for the Thessalonians’ perseverance (TOP #200) despite being persecuted, which proves they are worthy of the kingdom of God (TOP #155), who will “trouble” the troublers.

>>>TOP #200: God’s salvation is conditional upon persevering faith in the Gospel. [Col. 1: 22-23, 2Tim. 2:11-13] These verses are part of the doctrine of perseverance implied by the kerygma, because it is necessary in order to achieve TOP such as #191 & #195 (cf. TOP #182 & 211).
 
TOP #221: God is just. [2Thes. 1:6, Heb. 6:10] The second verse says that God is not unjust. God demonstrates his justice
by not showing favoritism (Eph. 6:9, Rom. 3:25-26).

TOP #222: Those unsaved will be punished [justly] with everlasting destruction and separation from the Lord on Judgment Day.
(2Thes. 1:7-10) This passage elaborates a little on TOP #209.

>>>TOP #209: God raised Jesus from the dead to save believers from the coming wrath. [1Thes. 1:9-10 & 5:9] Paul spoke about what we are saved to (eternal life, as in Acts 13:46) as well as what we are saved from (judgment, Acts 17:31, Rom. 2:2-3), but he did not elaborate on what wrath (Rom. 1:18, 2:5) will entail, except to say that it will mean death and distress (Rom. 1:32 & 2:9), which would seem to mean eternal death after suffering appropriate punishment (Rom. 2:6).
 
TOP #223: The Day of the Lord will not come until the man of lawlessness is revealed, who will claim to be God and work counterfeit miracles. [2Thes. 2:1-10] This teaching adds to what was said regarding the Second Coming in 1 Thessalonians (TOP #213). The reference to the temple must echo Matt. 24:15, and the reference to counterfeit miracles is found in Matt. 24:24 (TOJ #138 & 141).

>>>TOP #213: The dead in Christ will rise first and be joined in the air by Christians who are living at that time. [1Thes. 4:13-18] Regarding the times and dates, “the end will come like a thief in the night” (5:1-4, cf. Matt. 24:36-44/TOJ #144), so the children of light (TOP #168) should be alert or ready rather than asleep or drunk (1Thes. 5:5-7).

>>>TOJ #138: False teachers will deceive many people. [Matt. 24:4-5, 11&23-24a//Mark 13:5-6] This TOJ is an extension of #47. The deceivers will include people who claim to be Christ or a prophet greater than Him. Some may even perform apparent miracles {Matt. 24:24b-25}. They will try to distract Believers’ focus from LGW {Matt. 24:26, Luke 17:23}.

>>>TOJ #141: The “abomination that causes desolation” will be the final blow. [Matt. 24:15-20//Mark 13:14-18] This sounds like it might be a nuclear bomb in Jerusalem, in which case the only hope for survival would be to find shelter in mountain caves before it was detonated. The wording in Luke {LK 21:20-24} seems to describe this event in terms of the sack of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 A.D. Perhaps what occurred then will happen again and extend around the world in the future.
 
TOP #224: God sends those who refuse to love the truth a delusion so they will believe the lie. [2Thes. 2:10-12] This is akin
to Rom. 1:18-32 (TOP #10), and it also indicates the opposite of cooperation between human volition and divine will (TOP #214).

>>> TOP #10: Although God’s creation reveals His power and love, godless people suppress truth and exchange it for the lie of idolatry. [Rom. 1:18-25, cf. #3] This is what Adam and Eve did.

Paul says men are without excuse, both because God’s eternal power and moral nature (love) are manifested by creation
(Rom. 1:20, cf. Job 12:7-9). Apparently, creation combined with conscience or moral sense (Rom. 2:14-16) that manifests a moral Authority TOP #23)–and combined with OT law for the Jew (TOP #22)–serves as a provisional or proto-gospel (Col. 1:23, Rom. 10:13-18, Gal. 3:8), which is the revelational basis for divine salvation and judgment (TOP #24-26 & 281).

>>>TOP #214: Self-control must cooperate with GW/HS. [1Thes. 5:6-8, 2Thes. 1:11, Tit. 2:2-12, TOP #138] Christians may exercise their God-given will or volition to have faith, love and hope. This TOP gives Calvinists fits!
 
TOP #225: From the beginning God chose to save those who believed the true Gospel and thus received the Spirit who sanctifies them as they persevere in learning GW. [2Thes. 2:13-17&3:5] Such sanctification involves being encouraged. This teaching adds to #210 by connecting GW and HS to the Gospel truth and persevering sanctification (#211&220).

>>>TOP #210: God’s Spirit and God’s Word are essentially synonymous. [1Thes. 1:13 & 4:8, Phil. 2:13] This is a significant nuance of TOP #187, reminding us of their nexus indicated by Jesus in John 14, 15 & 16 (TOJ #197 & #203).

>>>>>>TOP #187: Those who have saving faith cooperate with God’s good works. [Phil. 2:12-13] This is a significant reiteration of TOP #150. God works in believers via His Holy Spirit (cf. TOP #28).

>>>TOP #211: Saving faith in the Gospel should be augmented by faith in the fullness of God’s Word. [1Thes. 3:10] This truth teaches the difference between the essential kerygma regarding God’s requirement for salvation and secondary or subsequent teaching regarding spiritual growth toward maturity.

>>>TOP #220: Christians need to be completely sanctified. [1Thes. 5:23-24] Elsewhere sanctification is spoken of as though it occurred completely at conversion (Rom. 15:16, 1Cor. 1:2 & 6:11), but here it seems to be an ongoing process beginning at conversion and continuing toward perfection until death, which makes sense or jibes with TOP #188 & 191.

>>>>>>TOP #188: The goal of Christian faith is to become blameless. [Phil. 2:14-16] Note that being indwelt by the HS does not result in immediate actual perfection, which remains a lifelong goal (as Paul will teach in 3:12).

>>>>>>TOP #191: Christians should behave in accordance with what they have learned as they continue to learn God’s will/word. [Phil. 3:15-17] Paul cites himself as an example. Those who habitually sin indicate that their profession of Christ is false (cf. TOP #167 & 211).
 
TOP #226: He who will not work shall not eat. [2Thes. 3:6-15] In this passage Paul elaborated on the warning against idleness that
he gave in 1Thes. 5:14 (TOP #216) and against stealing in Eph. 4:28 (TOP #163). In practical political terms, this teaching supports workfare. Paul wrote the epistle’s closing in his own hand (per 3:17).

>>>TOP #216: Warn those who are idle. [1Thes. 5:14] This is elaborated in Paul’s second letter to the Thessalonians.

>>>TOP #163: Instead of stealing, Christians must earn a living and share surplus with worthy needy brethren. [Eph. 4:28] We can infer that lazy folks do not deserve to have such sin abetted but must reap what they do not sow (cf. TOP #226).

>>>TOP #239: Christians who are poor through no fault of their own should be supported by their families. [1Tim. 5:3-4&8] Paul said that those who do not help members of their families have denied the faith, apparently because it contradicts the compassion of Christ. This is yet another teaching emphasizing that faith without loving fruit is false (TOP #87, 138, 208, etc.), or dead per Jam. 2:17. That this does not apply to those who are not really poor or are poor because of laziness (TOP #226) is indicated by the phrase “really in need”.
 
At this point in the NT we encounter four epistles that Paul wrote to individuals rather than to churches.
After the greeting, 1Timothy mentions the occasion when Paul told Timothy to remain in Ephesus while
he went on to Macedonia (Acts 16:1-10, 16:19 & 17:15), for the purpose of commanding certain Ephesians
not to teach false doctrines, which will serve as the next TOP.

TOP #227: Christians must not teach false doctrines about myths, genealogies and the law. [1Tim. 1:3-7, 4:7, 6:3-5, 2Tim. 4:4 & Tit. 1:14] Such doctrines promote controversy rather than faith in the Gospel and love.

Paul seems to have developed a concern about myths by the time of writing these pastoral epistles. The term is not defined,
but it seems to include interpretations of the OT Torah that contradict the Gospel and that value a person's family tree more than
Christ's cross. In 4:7 they are called godless and old wives' tales.

In 6:3-5 Paul condemns those who teach false doctrines for having an "unhealthy interest in controversies and arguments
that result in envy, quarreling, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction". (Sounds like a description of some threads
on CC.) :cry:

In Tit. 1:10-14, Paul identifies one of the denominations he has in mind as "those of the circumcision group", which means
those who taught that God's requirement for salvation is obedience of OT laws. This doctrine is also condemned by Paul
in Gal. 2:11-16.
 
TOP #228: Teaching about the law is good if it condemns the ungodly. [1Tim. 1:8-11] Ungodly people includes: murderers, adulterers, perverts, slavers and liars. Paul's inclusion of slave traders indicates that God does not condone slavery, which will be corroborated in Philemon. Paul admitted that he was ungodly and the worst sinner before he was shown mercy (1Tim. 1:12-16).

TOP #229: God is eternal, immortal and invisible. [1Tim. 1:17, 6:15-16] The teaching about God being invisible is elaborated in 1John 4.

TOP #230: Christians should pray for everyone, including the authorities. [1Tim. 2:1-2] This harks back to TOP #66.

>>>TOP #66: Governments or rulers that are not tyrannical toward right-doers are ordained by God to punish wrongdoers and should be obeyed. [Rom. 13:1-5, Tti. 3:1] Those who stop reading the Romans passage at verse two might misinterpret what it means. The reason for obedience should not only be fear of punishment but also because it is morally right.
 
TOP #231: God wants everyone to be saved or believe the true faith that there is one God and one mediator, who is the man, Christ Jesus. [1Tim. 2:3-7, cf. Ezek. 33:11] This is perhaps the most foundational passage in the TOP. All interpretation of Scripture should conform with this manifold teaching:

1. God loves everyone including His enemies including Satan (cf. Matt. 5:44&48),
2. Thus God encourages everyone to (and prevents no one from choosing to) believe the truth as revealed and be saved or elect
(Matt. 23:37, Acts 28:26-27),
3. The full truth is the gospel that Christ paid the ransom for sin and thus belief in him as Messiah is the Way to heaven (John 14:6).
 
TOP #232: Women should dress modestly and speak discreetly. [1Tim. 2:9-15, Tit. 2:4-5] The devil is in the details of this teaching. Should women wear a shroud and muzzle? Should men not dress modestly, and are all men better teachers than all women? Does the story of Adam and Eve teach dictatorship rather than partnership?

It would seem that Paul’s concern at this point is akin to that in 1Cor. 9-11 (TOP #96,102&103), which was that freedom in Christ not become a license to sin or to offend societal sensibilities, which at that time viewed the role of married women to be that of mother.

Applying this teaching to today, what might be appropriate to wear at home or on the beach is inappropriate on the street or at school or work. Regarding authority, the command in Eph. 5:20, “Submit to one another”, should be the rubric and consensus or peace the goal (Rom. 14:9, 1Cor. 14:33, 2Cor. 13:11, 1Thes. 5:13, etc.).
 
TOP #232: Women should dress modestly and speak discreetly. [1Tim. 2:9-15, Tit. 2:4-5] The devil is in the details of this teaching. Should women wear a shroud and muzzle? Should men not dress modestly, and are all men better teachers than all women? Does the story of Adam and Eve teach dictatorship rather than partnership?

It would seem that Paul’s concern at this point is akin to that in 1Cor. 9-11 (TOP #96,102&103), which was that freedom in Christ not become a license to sin or to offend societal sensibilities, which at that time viewed the role of married women to be that of mother.

Applying this teaching to today, what might be appropriate to wear at home or on the beach is inappropriate on the street or at school or work. Regarding authority, the command in Eph. 5:20, “Submit to one another”, should be the rubric and consensus or peace the goal (Rom. 14:9, 1Cor. 14:33, 2Cor. 13:11, 1Thes. 5:13, etc.).
well these things happen but then so do people who create strawmen to have an argument

Because thoughts are not actions, the truth is if your red hot then if you want you can jump in the ocean naked.

As God would say come on in the water is lovely,

And in the eyes of the lord we are all naked when where with him 🤩
 
well these things happen but then so do people who create strawmen to have an argument
Because thoughts are not actions, the truth is if your red hot then if you want you can jump in the ocean naked.
As God would say come on in the water is lovely,
And in the eyes of the lord we are all naked when where with him 🤩

Off topic, but saving faith is a spiritual action/work/condition per John 6:29.