Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[cv5]

That is correct - all who genuinely trust/believe in Christ as Savior shall never die, but to believe one must first have been saved. Otherwise, the spiritually dead could give spiritual life to themselves which would be impossible - no one is able to give life to themselves.
Given that Jesus alone is the resurrection and the life, then salvation can only be for Him to give and not man.

[Eph 2:4-5 KJV]
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Don't get me wrong @rogerg ......you are doing a fantastic job.

A fantastic job of proving Augustine wrong. Day in, day out wrong wrong wrong. Amazing. Well done!

 

[cv5]

But what would have happened if the lord didn't cloth them.

What would have happened if they WILLFULLY refused to RECEIVE the GIFT of the "covering of God's righteousness"?

In your twisted version of events, God hogties them both without consent, tears off the fig leaves like a rapist, and forcibly puts on the skins (because they are totally depraved), both of them squirming and cursing while it is happening!

And a few years later, Cain DOES refuse the OFFER of the covering! Straight up WILLFUL denial.

 

[lrs68]

I am still researching how God so loved the world but it only means a little percentage or that God gave a measure of Faith to ALL MEN but that also only means a percentage.

It seems according to some people God doesn't mean what He really says. He only means what they want Him to say.

Who knew God could be so deceitful according to them..

Intriguing!

 

[lrs68]

The flip side is Grace, Peace, Faith, Joy are gifts from God to those who are Regenerated. So Romans 12:3 is only about the Regenerated.

 

[Jordon]

What would have happened if they WILLFULLY refused to RECEIVE the GIFT of the "covering of God's righteousness"?

In your twisted version of events, God hogties them both without consent, tears off the fig leaves like a rapist, and forcibly puts on the skins (because they are totally depraved), both of them squirming and cursing while it is happening!

And a few years later, Cain DOES refuse the OFFER of the covering! Straight up WILLFUL denial.

Im having a day of fasting thanks for asking

I wonder do you always get this wound up about Adam and eve ?
Do you think your entitled to speak to me like this for the question I asked ? Was my question really worthy of your response ?

How could you even consider God using his will over people as rape ?

Are you ok really


Ok so lets look at your response to which it's the first I've heard, So God clothed Adam and eve in righteousness, did he ?, so adam and eve, where they born again at that moment when God clothed them.

Or was it he clothed them in faith ?
Did they know they where clothed in faith ?

There suppose to be given a choice in your book first aren't they ?

No offense sir but do you suffer with anger

Did you even notice me say did God look at there whole life first before clothing them ?

Did you notice that ?

Have you even notice me say in this thread is it possible Adam and eve could have been saved ?

Do you even know what your saying ?

Do you think it would be right for you to be given salvation without God looking at your whole first.

ok go ahead sir tell me your faith with anger always works well that one

 

[BillyBob]

No problem

Kind of a complicated answer but I'll give it a shot under the assumption you'll stay interested through it

I'll start with a question: why do you think that "believe" is in one tense and "will be saved" is in a different tense if believing
saves?

Good point Roger. And, I might also add, at what point in the story did they actually believe? After being told that he must believe, did he immediately say I believe? Or, were he and his household saved after hearing God's word along with the renewing work of the Spirit?
cc @posthuman

 

[GWH]

Isn’t exercising our MFW on CC fun?

 

[HeIsHere]

@HeIsHere would you care to clarify?

There is no scripture which states "saving faith" is bequeathed by God (including Ephesians 2:8-9) and scripture does not ever place regeneration prior to belief.

The "reformed/aka cavinists 2.0 lite version go off into tangents about this and that but the classic, true and understood even by a child, order salutis of scripture is clear.

First >>> trust in (condition set by God) the Good News of Christ Jesus and receive the gift of salvation and this is a real time occurrence not the false teaching of people arbitrarily selected before creation.

One does wonder what is the reason for obfuscating the simple Good News message by using verses completely outside of their historical/grammatical context.

 

[cv5]

Im having a day of fasting thanks for asking

I wonder do you always get this wound up about Adam and eve ?
Do you think your entitled to speak to me like this for the question I asked ? Was my question really worthy of your response ?

How could you even consider God using his will over people as rape ?

Are you ok really


Ok so lets look at your response to which it's the first I've heard, So God clothed Adam and eve in righteousness, did he ?, so adam and eve, where they born again at that moment when God clothed them.

Or was it he clothed them in faith ?
Did they know they where clothed in faith ?

There suppose to be given a choice in your book first aren't they ?

No offense sir but do you suffer with anger

Did you even notice me say did God look at there whole life first before clothing them ?

Did you notice that ?

Have you even notice me say in this thread is it possible Adam and eve could have been saved ?

Do you even know what your saying ?

Do you think it would be right for you to be given salvation without God looking at your whole first.

ok go ahead sir tell me your faith with anger always works well that one

You sure are fully of questions. But no answers unfortunately.

@Cameron143 plays his hand similarly, with equally dismal results.

 

[Jordon]

You sure are fully of questions. But no answers unfortunately.

@Cameron143 plays his hand similarly, with equally dismal results.

well if that's your only answer to your twisted rant get on with it

 

[cv5]

There is no scripture which states "saving faith" is bequeathed by God (including Ephesians 2:8-9) and scripture does not ever place regeneration prior to belief.

Despite the obvious and manifold Scriptural precedents, the endless (and very crude IMO) Reformer pseudo-philosophical bloviating persists.

It's all sound and fury signifying nothing IMO. What a waste of a perfectly good keyboard.

 

[HeIsHere]

Despite the obvious and manifold Scriptural precedents, the endless (and very crude IMO) Reformer pseudo-philosophical bloviating persists.

It's all sound and fury signifying nothing IMO. What a waste of a perfectly good keyboard.

A complete lack of respect for proper handling of God's Word.
Having a system and then finding verses to support the system ... that is what cults do.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

In both cases AI seemed to come back with similar results.
The reformed doctrine has been developed over a period of time. Nobody has claimed otherwise, but it does draw from scripture written by Paul. . . . . . . .
So, what is your point?
Magenta may have put the results in a more readable format, but I see no attempt by her to change the results in a significant way.

how about you copy/paste the query from Magenta's post to see if you come up with the result AI provided me ... or the result shown in Magenta's post ... then you'll see who did what to the AI response.

while I do understand that there may be different filters if a person lives in a different country ... that could easily be rectified if Magenta would indicate that what she submitted in her post was the result of her query as opposed to her putting "the results in a more readable format" as you claim.

However, Magenta has chosen to claim she is a victim of me having "falsely accused her" rather than clarify that what she submitted was the exact result of her query.

RDBD loves to falsely accuse me. She entered this thread doing that very thing...

please provide the post submitted by me wherein I "falsely accused you". thank you.

Which was really weird, because she did it while going on about how we should be treating each other as Christians.

again, please provide the post submitted by me wherein I "falsely accused you" ... it could be that you are "falsely causing me" in your Post 17,746. Thank you.

Total hypocrite. FWers use their freedom to sin.

hah! ... under that surmising, you could consider yourself a"total hypocrite" and a "FWer" ... hahahaha!!!

1 John 1:8, 10 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. ... If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
.

 

[rogerg]

There is no scripture which states "saving faith" is bequeathed by God (including Ephesians 2:8-9) and scripture does not ever place regeneration prior to belief.

The "reformed/aka cavinists 2.0 lite version go off into tangents about this and that but the classic, true and understood even by a child, order salutis of scripture is clear.

First >>> trust in (condition set by God) the Good News of Christ Jesus and receive the gift of salvation and this is a real time occurrence not the false teaching of people arbitrarily selected before creation.

One does wonder what is the reason for obfuscating the simple Good News message by using verses completely outside of their historical/grammatical context.

Yes, there is. To believe through grace (below) they first had to have God's grace. It is by God's grace that one becomes saved. So, they were saved first, then, from that, they believed

[Act 18:27 KJV] 27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

 

[Cameron143]

You sure are fully of questions. But no answers unfortunately.

@Cameron143 plays his hand similarly, with equally dismal results.

Living rent free in your head.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

To be IN Christ is to be ONE with him. It's to be united to Him. It's to be identified with Him. And when any saint is IN Him, he's no longer in Adam. Christ's imputed righteousness obliterates Adam's imputed sin to his progeny. Since Christ is the Federal Head of God's people, the elect receive ALL the benefits of His righteous life, death, burial, resurrection and ascension.

Also, as I explained yesterday, Christ's bore the sins of God's elect in his body, which means all sins of all God's chosen people were imputed to Jesus at the Cross.

As far Abraham goes, he was not saved on a different basis than the NC saints. Abraham, along with all the OT saints, were in Christ since Jesus in eternity was appointed to be a covenant to his [chosen] people in both dispensations (Isa 49:8). Note carefully, please, that the Messiah was NOT appointed to be a covenant for the peopleS (plural) or the nations. He clearly was appointed to be a covenant to Israel (all Abraham's spiritual descendants ).

Rufus ... you still haven't answered the question ...

you claim that a person "can have another person's faith" in the same way "a person can have another person's righteousness".

We know from Scripture that righteousness is imputed to those who believe.

Not interested in your suppositions ... please show from Scripture that faith is imputed ... chapter and verse please


ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
What does that even mean? How can a person have another person's faith? Faith is being persuaded by and putting confidence in something someone says, in this particular case, the gospel.

Rufus said:
In the same way a person can have another person's righteousness.
.

 

[Jordon]

Despite the obvious and manifold Scriptural precedents, the endless (and very crude IMO) Reformer pseudo-philosophical bloviating persists.

It's all sound and fury signifying nothing IMO. What a waste of a perfectly good keyboard.

you you you eh it's all about you.

I would of though someone like you and your firm Jewish beliefs should know today is one of holiest days of the year in the Jewish calender.

Anyway you think about that before your next twisted rant

 

[HeIsHere]

how about you copy/paste the query from Magenta's post to see if you come up with the result AI provided me ... or the result shown in Magenta's post ... then you'll see who did what to the AI response.

while I do understand that there may be different filters if a person lives in a different country ... that could easily be rectified if Magenta would indicate that what she submitted in her post was the result of her query as opposed to her putting "the results in a more readable format" as you claim.

However, Magenta has chosen to claim she is a victim of me having "falsely accused her" rather than clarify that what she submitted was the exact result of her query.





please provide the post submitted by me wherein I "falsely accused you". thank you.





again, please provide the post submitted by me wherein I "falsely accused you" ... it could be that you are "falsely causing me" in your Post 17,746. Thank you.





hah! ... under that surmising, you could consider yourself a"total hypocrite" and a "FWer" ... hahahaha!!!

1 John 1:8, 10 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. ... If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
.

I understand your wanting to set the record straight, truly I do, but sometimes it is really not worth it, I think there are many here who are fully aware and that is all that matters just my view on it.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Another lie. No one seeks after God innately (3:11) because no "natural man" naturally fears God. The Fear of the Lord is a grace that is unilaterally promised by God and given to His covenant people. Did A&E seek God after they sinned!? How they reacted to God after their sin is paradigmatic of all their progeny which is how Paul could have written what he did in Rom 3.

After Adam and Eve sinned, God reached out to them ... just as God reaches out to all. The fact that mankind knows there is a God Who is the Creator of the universe and all that is therein is a testament to the fact that God reaches out to us ... and not vice versa.

The fact that God reached out to Adam and Eve after they sinned is a testament to the fact that God reaches out to sinners.

God reaching out to Cain is a testament to the fact that God even reaches out to those who God knows will reject Him.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

And not only that, Rufus, but we are also informed in the following, that:

[Rom 5:1-2 KJV]
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

It seems to me that by the "through our Lord Jesus Christ", we are told who the justification of the "justified by faith" is from
It also seems confirmed to me by the "By whom" of v2 that it refers back to Jesus Christ of v1.

Has it also occurred to you that the "Therefore" of v1 refers back to what is written in Rom 4 where we are told that righteousness is imputed if a person believes?

IOW, the faith is Christ's faith and by that faith we are brought into grace, the grace of Eph 2:8, whereby is salvation received as a gift.

Maybe you can help Rufus find the verse where God tells us faith is imputed ...
.