Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[lrs68]

That is a lie; for which you will find zero scriptural support.

You really don't know the Bible very well outside your false doctrine.

I said they knew God but didn't acknowledge Him as God and Verse 21 says what I did.

21 because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened

 

[sawdust]

It is not impossible that you to hear the truth and believe but to hear it is from God and not man - you attribute hearing to the
wrong source. Man is saved not because of his belief but by (God's) grace through Jesus Christ - belief comes from that grace.

You don't listen. I have said many, many times it is not our believing that saves us. Your continual willful denial of what I say is alarming.

How can I believe anything you say regarding scripture when you can't even get my word right?

Try hearing with some understanding.

Believers are saved because it is what God has ordained, an act of grace on His part. It was the LORD God who declared "whosoever believes will be saved". He did not say "whosoever I regenerate will be saved".

It is His grace that enables us to hear and to see but the response is ours and ours alone.

Joshua and Caleb received the exact same grace that the rest of the Israelites received in the Exodus. Being given grace does not necessarily result in belief. God values freedom, hence "choose you this day".

We come into this world by the grace of God. How much grace a man receives during their lifetime will depend on their response to God's grace.

 

[Mem]

See the thing is when it comes to hedgehogs there created with all these pricks as a self defense there known as porcupines.

They move so slowly as well, so there very easy to catch, but you will get a prick or two. But what do you do once you've catched one, because with all those pricks they have for self defense they must be really important to God, could you think why,.but what you do with one once you catched one,.as they could be looking food to feed there babies, when they dig through your lawn there unearthing worms like the blackbirds do of a morning.

Taking the hedgehogs to the woods is a bit unfair on the baby.

So what do you do.

Well did you know it just so happens that hedgehogs love cat biscuits, and the best part is one box of cat biscuits from the local store can cost as little as 70 penny's, and it will last 10 hedgehogs a whole week.

A dear friend of mine, Iryna, has a pet hedgehog. Perhaps it's a Ukranian thing, idk, but I suppose that you have to know how to handle them.

 

[rogerg]

Romans 5:18 says declared righteous, not made righteous. You clearly don't undertand the faith. Righteousness is a hope that we wait for through faith; it's not the present reality. Through faith we walk in Christ's righteousness until we are clothed with an incorruptible righteous body at the resurrection

For we by spirit of faith await the hope of righteousness. Galatians 5:5​

Eternal life is the hope of righteousness.

The process of making "many righteous" won't be satisfied until the last person is saved, hence, the future tense, even though, until then,
people are being made righteous through Christ.

[1Jo 3:7 KJV] 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

[1Jo 2:29 KJV] 29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

[Rom 5:21 KJV] 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[sawdust]

God is the one who decided to save believers, not me
No, God decided to save [sinners] a people of His choosing

John 3:16

and He gives us all we need to do just that (ie.believe) even from a fallen state
No, we are renewed from a fallen state, made alive in Christ so that we will believe. [belief is a fruit not a cause].

Being spiritually alive is no guarantee of fidelity. Ask Adam. Faith is a fruit, a work of the Spirit through the indwelling word of God. Believing is an act of our will.

and it is by means of grace they can respond either positively or negatively.
You must be kidding.

I kid not. Ask the Israelite crowd that exited Egypt. The Exodus was an act of grace on God's part, all received that grace, only Joshua and Caleb responded positively the rest went negative.

This is why God can judge a man righteously and without any partiality because two men can receive the same grace yet one responds by believing the other responds by rejecting.

Try thinking beyond your dogma.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I believe it is as Paul stated in the verse I included - that God saved him when/by he being taken from under the law of sin and death and placed under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. Notice that Paul had no part in the process but to be taken from
the one and placed under the other - the law of Christ is what made him MADE him free.

[Rom 8:2 KJV] 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

The same Paul who wrote Romans 8:2 also wrote:

Romans:

4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


and the same Paul clarified that faith is not works:

Romans 4:

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


those who claim that faith is works do not understand faith.
.

 

[Genez]

Interesting experience. Glad God got through

Not knowing I was saved....

Ten years after having a dream that I thought might have come about because drug use (had stopped for several months)

Well you see you can never have the universes just like you can never have Gods grace, he can give you grace and he can give you the keys to his kingdom.

But he would have too look at your whole life first.

I mean could you just imagine what could go wrong if he gave his key to his kingdom, if he never knew his grace was sufficient for you, by knowing how you respect his grace, by looking at your whole life first.

Could you just imagine what could happen if he never looked at your whole life first, and you decided to use his grace wrongly, with his key to his kingdom.

Idle cleverness will never replace sound doctrine.

Getting sound doctrine and living it puts an end to idle cleverness.

Its being walking dead until doctrines of the Word take over and become one's life.

I wish you well....

 

[reneweddaybyday]

What happens if a person becomes saved and then decides to live like he wants without regard to what God wants?

one of them even had the audacity to claim "those He died for do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners" ... holy moly ... smh
.

 

[Genez]

Interesting experience. Glad God got through

God showed me I was saved before I knew I was saved.
Many became saved as children when they believed in Jesus Christ.
They just did not know they became regenerated.

Later, when they hit a bad spot and cried out to the Lord they had a conversion experience that brought them to the point
of knowing they are saved.

That is why some believe God must regenerate you before you are saved.
They just do not comprehend that when they believed (as a child) that they were instantly regenerated and were unaware they were.
So that is how that erroneous notion came about of God must regenerate you before you are born again.

I was there and can see it.
Other have not.
They fail to realized how simple God makes salvation for mankind and many entered regeneration unawares.

It is this simple:

He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”​

​

They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”​

Acts 16:30-31​

 

[BillyBob]

You don't listen. I have said many, many times it is not our believing that saves us. Your continual willful denial of what I say is alarming.

How can I believe anything you say regarding scripture when you can't even get my word right?

Try hearing with some understanding.

Believers are saved because it is what God has ordained, an act of grace on His part. It was the LORD God who declared "whosoever believes will be saved". He did not say "whosoever I regenerate will be saved".

It is His grace that enables us to hear and to see but the response is ours and ours alone.

Joshua and Caleb received the exact same grace that the rest of the Israelites received in the Exodus. Being given grace does not necessarily result in belief. God values freedom, hence "choose you this day".

We come into this world by the grace of God. How much grace a man receives during their lifetime will depend on their response to God's grace.

THERE IS NO ‘I’ IN GRACE.

I will declare what HE HAS DONE for my soul" (Psa. 66:16).

 

[Jordon]

Not knowing I was saved....

Ten years after having a dream that I thought might have come about because drug use (had stopped for several months)



Idle cleverness will never replace sound doctrine.

Getting sound doctrine and living it puts an end to idle cleverness.

Its being walking dead until doctrines of the Word take over and become one's life.

I wish you well....

for me, doctrines are upheld by the church, but I don't live by them, I find them interesting to talk about them, especially this subject.

Today I've just popped in for a minute or two ever hour at least that's all, then back to normal life.

My day so far as been up early at the crack of dawn, cooked a nice breakfast, said my grace, went out for a 3 mile walk in 25 mins I love those fast track walks especially in the beach, then back home, where I did some telephone sales all day, and came in for a brief chat here of and on, now im just about ready to go to sleep as I'm on a 5 mile jog first thing in the morning, to get my blood pumped with oxygen to take any stresses the day may bring,

Bye for now friend

 

[rogerg]

You don't listen. I have said many, many times it is not our believing that saves us. Your continual willful denial of what I say is alarming.

You may find this hard to believe, but I don't keep a running catalogue in mind of everything you've
ever posted to be able to cross-reference them.

You raised the point of hearing and believing in regard to the "one work" ( required according to you for salvation) of Jn 6:29

My reply was based upon this post which was about salvation via hearing and believing. Notice the "one work" part.
Ya know, you slap together so many different unrelated factors that you can just pull out the one that suits the point you want to make.
You not only said "places the responsibility" but "firmly placed the responsibility"

"so that all are made aware of the truth but only those who respond positively are drawn and given to Christ..
God firmly placed the responsibility to believe on our shoulders, that is the one work God requires. Jn.6:29

And then you followed later with this post, which associated believe to the salvation mentioned above.
"What a load of rubbish! According to your philosophy it is impossible for me not to believe or it's impossible for me to hear the truth and believe so your own words are your undoing."

Your posts are too confusing to be able to identify and follow a singular, logical, thread throughout them.
And here's a suggestion, why don't you stop your whining, crybaby.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

reneweddaybyday said:
knowing Judas "would not" ... is that the same as "could not"?

can true prophecy fail?

John 6:64​

Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.​

what does eternal God mean when He says "from the beginning"

not an answer to the question.

just because Judas suppressed the truth in unrighteousness does not mean Judas did not have capacity to not suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

I do believe that after Judas was possessed by satan, Judas was completely bound ... however, I also believe that before he was possessed, Judas had capacity to not suppress the truth.


Luke 22:3-6 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve. And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them. And they were glad, and covenanted to give him money. And he promised, and sought opportunity to betray him unto them in the absence of the multitude.

and Jesus knew what Judas was up to ...

John 13:27 And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.


and I am familiar with this verse as well ... The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born – Mark 14:21 ... yikes!!!

the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus Christ was fulfillment of Gen 3:15 ... satan bruised the heal of the Lord Jesus Christ.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You're playing a bad game of semantics. Righteousness is a divine gift given to God's elect. Through the obedience of one man, the many were made righteous. So, yes, I have my Lord's righteousness imputed to my soul. By His merits, I am as righteous as He is! And since you don't believe this about yourself, it's very likely you're a stranger to God's grace.

Genesis 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Abraham believed ... God imputed righteousness to Abraham.

Please provide the verse which states faith was imputed to Abraham. Thank you.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Isn't it amazing how God is allowed to chose someone for destruction but cannot chose people to be saved?

God does not "chose someone for destruction". those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness are without excuse.

God allowing mankind to suppress the truth in unrighteousness does not mean God is not sovereign ...
.

 

[sawdust]

THERE IS NO ‘I’ IN GRACE.

I will declare what HE HAS DONE for my soul" (Psa. 66:16).

What sort of argument is that? Have I ever said the grace we receive comes from anyone other than God?

<smh>

Unbelievable!

Oh the irony.

 

[Genez]

for me, doctrines are upheld by the church, but I don't live by them, I find them interesting to talk about them, especially this subject.

Don't confuse dogma for sound doctrine.

There is no denomination that teaches sound doctrine, except the very basic for baby Christians.
And, even then they will be wrong too many times.

Here is the problem. -2 Timothy 4:3 -

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. ​

Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number ​

of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.​

MANY churches today have no clue as to how to teach sound doctrine as the means for growth and maturity.
Most never grow, and will be on the same level ten years from now, as today.
It is so common to see that many think it is normal, and will pick and choose which church pleases their
preferred way of thinking.

The Church of England is not exempt.

 

[Genez]

What sort of argument is that? Have I ever said the grace we receive comes from anyone other than God?

<smh>

Unbelievable!

Oh the irony.

When they don't get that they are not getting it?
They will assume it is you who are not.

 

[posthuman]

Since Adam was very likely the Serpent's seed (according to the preponderance of biblical evidence),

wow, i can't think of even one thing that would support that

would you mind terribly starting a thread on the topic? you seem passionate about it.

 

[sawdust]

And then you followed later with this post, which associated believe to the salvation mentioned above.
"What a load of rubbish! According to your philosophy it is impossible for me not to believe or it's impossible for me to hear the truth and believe so your own words are your undoing."

I was saying that is what you believe.

How is it others can understand what I say but you can't? Even my agnostic son gets what I'm saying better than you do.

The problem ain't me mate.