Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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rogerg said:
You were relating it to your requirement for salvation. It is not my belief that our faith can bring salvation - not even close - never happen -so why would I bring it up and discussed it in that context. You were the one who said our faith is the one requirement for salvation demanded by the Father. I didn't say, nor do I believe, that it is.
Can we be done with this now?
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You still don't recognise that I see belief as an act of our will and faith as an act of the word indwelling us. Two different things.

You believe you have to be made spiritually alive before you can believe and you will only believe, but you also see one cannot believe if not regenerated. It's impossible to believe and it's impossible not to believe as far as you are concerned.

If you want to understand what someone is saying try looking through their eyes. You don't have to agree with someone to do that.
 
rogerg said:
Not if you want to have a Savior to save you. You can't have it both ways, but whatever, you asked
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What!? How can you "want" a Saviour to save you when in your world you are oblivious to anything of God?

I think your the one having an each way bet here. ;)
 
BillyBob said:
I assume you are speaking of an unsaved person.

If that person is an elect of God, and if it is the appointed time that he is to become saved, then, upon hearing, he is regenerated by the Spirit and placed into Christ. This does not take place due to any good thing in that person, because there are none that are good. It is not done to enable him to make a good choice. It is a merciful act by God Himself, and it is not merited by any act of man. It is an undeserved gift!
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That says nothing.

What you said is like saying God saved because you were listed on a page in His Divine notebook.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
So is it a way for those who think this way to absolve themselves of reponsibility? It must be that. Since God is doing everything they can't be held responsible for anything.
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Yet, they leave God totally responsible for sending equally depraved people to the Lake of Fire, for denying them irresistible grace.
 
No-willer: "Help save me. I'm drowning!"
God: "Here, grab onto this rope"
No-willer: "No I can't because if I did then you wouldn't be a savior"
 
reneweddaybyday said:
reneweddaybyday said:
knowing Judas "would not" ... is that the same as "could not"?



not an answer to the question.

just because Judas suppressed the truth in unrighteousness does not mean Judas did not have capacity to not suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

I do believe that after Judas was possessed by satan, Judas was completely bound ... however, I also believe that before he was possessed, Judas had capacity to not suppress the truth.


Luke 22:3-6 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve. And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them. And they were glad, and covenanted to give him money. And he promised, and sought opportunity to betray him unto them in the absence of the multitude.

and Jesus knew what Judas was up to ...

John 13:27 And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.


and I am familiar with this verse as well ... The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born – Mark 14:21 ... yikes!!!

the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus Christ was fulfillment of Gen 3:15 ... satan bruised the heal of the Lord Jesus Christ.
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The whole point of the episode is that Judas (***Satan***) DID IN FACT possess the capacity/ability to truly repent and make good on the OFFER of reconciliation/fellowship that the Lord GRACIOUSLY provided.

Of course the Reformed crowd blames God, as they declare that this was a fraudulent offer simply because He knew the outcome in advance.

This nonsense of God getting the blame and "decreeing evil" (trademark @Rufus ) is a primary plank of their dogma. Sometimes they admit it, other times they do a fan dance around it.....but it is inescapable and steeped into their theology and soteriology.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
So is it a way for those who think this way to absolve themselves of reponsibility? It must be that. Since God is doing everything they can't be held responsible for anything.
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And that would be Satan's standard "gotchya" excuse. Satan peddled that to the (fallen) angelic host too. Which is why they fight to the absolute bitter end at the tribulation and final war.

Not gonna work BTW.
Genesis 3 proves it. The book or Romans proves it. The saga of Job proves it. Everything proves it.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
No-willer: "Help save me. I'm drowning!"
God: "Here, grab onto this rope"
No-willer: "No I can't because if I did then you wouldn't be a savior"
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No, He would have single handedly dragged him onto the boat - didn't need a rope nor cooperation from the one drowning - He would
have done it all, better that way - especially if the one drowning was incapacitated
 
rogerg said:
No, He would have single handedly dragged him onto the boat - didn't need a rope nor cooperation from the one drowning - He would
have done it all, better that way - especially if the one drowning was incapacitated
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Inventing unbiblical soteriological fables is a Reformed specialty.
 
rogerg said:
No, He would have single handedly dragged him onto the boat - didn't need a rope nor cooperation from the one drowning - He would
have done it all, better that way - especially if the one drowning was incapacitated
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But then the man wouldn't be able to chose to grab the rope. That wouldn't be fair! :rolleyes:
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
In your world God has to do everything. In the real world God gives us a choice.
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Rom 11:6
This verse clearly teaches that grace and works are at opposition to each other, they cannot co-exist.
The Fwer believes that by God's grace we have been given a choice to make. We now have the choice to believe or not. And, if we make the right choice, we will be saved.
What utter nonsense! Grace cannot require a work to assist what Christ has done. . . .
You must have a real need to feel important in some way!
 
BillyBob said:
Rom 11:6
This verse clearly teaches that grace and works are at opposition to each other, they cannot co-exist.
The Fwer believes that by God's grace we have been given a choice to make. We now have the choice to believe or not. And, if we make the right choice, we will be saved.
What utter nonsense! Grace cannot require a work to assist what Christ has done. . . .
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False dichotomy. When Paul contrasted grace with works, he was referring to works of law, ie, keeping the law of Moses. Grace and works of faith are not incompatible.
 
cv5 said:
You should be ashamed. Ashamed of your false doctrine regarding Mary and the Holy Spirit.
The incident of 2 Samuel 11-12 (rape of Bathsheba) proves conclusively the contrary.
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Good post.

Not many understand that Bathsheba was raped. The king gets what he wants.
 
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