Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
No it's definitely spiritual. It can be heard, but not understood. How else do those who learn of the father come to Christ? They are led spiritually until their eyes are opened to the truth of the gospel
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No, they come to Christ only by the Father giving them to Christ, and Christ to them. Of themselves they cannot do so. God opens the eyes; man cannot do so on his own - they must be opened for them, but He does so only for His elect, not everyone.

[Jhn 17:2 KJV] 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
 
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rogerg said:
No, they come to Christ only by the Father giving them to Christ, and Christ to them. Of themselves they cannot do so. God opens the eyes; man cannot do so on his own - they must be opened for them, but He does so only for His elect, not everyone.

[Jhn 17:2 KJV] 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
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They are not by themselves. The spirit is leading them to Christ.
 
rogerg said:
It is intellectually known in the temporal but not discerned spiritually

[1Co 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
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Totally de-Calvinized dozens of times on this thread ROFL.
 
rogerg said:
Did you notice the "as many as" in the verse - that it is not for everyone, therefore, it is not available to everyone,
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Yes, that is talking about his lost sheep. Lost means unregenerate. The father woos them to him through his spirit and gives them to Christ who regenerates them.
 
cv5 said:
Totally de-Calvinized dozens of times on this thread ROFL.
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Yes, I realize. By your super-human interpretive abilities, you were able to find the one quirk in the Greek that no expert has yet ever been able to find even after hundreds of years of search and examination. I stand in awe of your greatness.
 
rogerg said:
No. Beforehand we are dead spiritually. We must first be made alive. A spiritually dead person cannot comprehend things spiritual.

[Eph 2:5 KJV] 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

[Col 2:13 KJV] 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
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No we don't and I told you why. You don't have to be spiritually alive to understand morality. Right, wrong and judgement are moral issues as much as they are spiritual issues.
 
sawdust said:
No we don't and I told you why. You don't have to be spiritually alive to understand morality. Right, wrong and judgement are moral issues as much as they are spiritual issues.
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Have to be spiritually alive to comprehend things spiritual. Did you understand the verse? It is explained very clearly in it - that spiritual discernment cannot come by man it must be given by the Holy Spirit. By that, should someone believe that they can, or have, given themselves spiritual life and understanding, by that, they demonstrate they haven't. Read it again.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
An unregenerate person can still hear and learn from the spirit, even though they can't comprehend spiritual things

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:19-20​
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That is CORRECT!

The Holy Spirit can teach that Pontius Pilate was real, and that men were put on crosses in the days of Rome's control of Israel.
The Holy Spirit can teach that you were a no good sinner, too.
 
rogerg said:
Have to be spiritually alive to comprehend things spiritual. Did you understand the verse? It is explained very clearly in it - that spiritual discernment cannot come by man it must be given by the Holy Spirit. By that. should someone believe that they can, or have, given themselves spiritual life, by that, they demonstrate they haven't.
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You have to be spiritually alive to understand the gospel, but even unregenerate people are taught by God to treat others like they want to be treated. Some listen, most don't
 
Magenta said:
Creation does not proclaim the gospel .:oops:

Knowing there is a God does not save anyone.

It is knowing God that saves people.

from-John14-17etc.png

The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. The world does not recognize Him. No one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him. The one who loves God is known by God. If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The mind that is set on the flesh is hostile toward God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it. Whoever is not from God does not listen to us.
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Creation makes man God conscious.
The Holy Spirit can feed thoughts to a man concerning God.

The more curious a man becomes the more God can feed thoughts to make a man wonder about Jesus Christ.

If a man wants to believe that Jesus is real?
Then, the Holy Spirit will do what He does best.

Heck.... I did not even know Jesus was God when I believed in Him.
Guess what?
I got saved... while still thinking I was Jewish.
 
Genez said:
That is CORRECT!
The Holy Spirit can teach that you were a no good sinner, too.
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Thus this

But I speak to you the truth; it is advantageous to you that I go away. For if I should not go away, the comforter shall not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. And having come, that one will reprove the world concerning sin, and concerning righteousness, and concerning judgment. John 16:7-8​
 
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Kroogz said:
This is the way I see it.

Angels had their chance and failed. And then God restored the earth for the creation of mankind........... Satans appeal trial.

The freewill of mankind and choosing the Lord Jesus Christ puts another nail in Satan's coffin.
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The "freed" will of man (by grace) restores man's free will, when a man is positive to God's grace drawing him.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Thus this

But I speak to you the truth; it is advantageous to you that I go away. For if I should not go away, the comforter shall not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. And having come, that one will reprove the world concerning sin, and concerning righteousness, and concerning judgment. John 16:7-8​
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What's your point?
 
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