Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I thought I was in ignore... Looks like all that remains from you is the insults.
At this point I think we're going in circles so this will probably be my last iteration through it, but consider these verses that I believe demonstrates the "his deeds" are Christ's (God's) deeds, which deeds were perfect - and being perfect, they alone can provide a true standard against which the judgment of the unsaved can be rendered; that is, one is either covered by the deeds of Christ or judged by them.
[Rom 2:5-6 KJV]
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
[1Ch 16:8-9, 11-13 KJV]
8 Give thanks unto the LORD, call upon his name, make known his deeds among the people.
9 Sing unto him, sing psalms unto him, talk ye of all his wondrous works. ...
11 Seek the LORD and his strength, seek his face continually.
12 Remember his marvellous works that he hath done, his wonders, and the judgments of his mouth;
13 O ye seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his chosen ones.
The offering of the Lord Jesus Christ is/was/will be sufficient to propitiate the sin of all mankind from days of Adam/Eve to present and into the future. God is fully satisfied with His Son's sacrifice.
Why then are not all "reconciled"? Do you understand the word "reconciled"?
Romans 5:8-10 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
The word "reconciled" in Rom 5:10 is translated from the Greek word katallássō which means decisively change, as when two parties reconcile when coming ("changing") to the same position.
God (the Party of the first part) established His eternal purpose in eternity past ... and He reconciled Himself to mankind through the death of His Son.
The believer (the party of the second part) is reconciled at the time he/she believes (therefore being justified by faith – Rom 5:1 ... justified by His blood – Rom 5:9). At that point, the person "changed" his or her position and is reconciled to God ... both parties (God and the believer) came to the same position (both God and the person are reconciled ... i.e. Greek katallássō).
Those who reject God even as He reaches out to them are not reconciled to God ... not because God has not provided all that is necessary for them to be reconciled, but because they reject that which God has provided for them to be reconciled to God.
The Lord Jesus Christ is the reconciliation ... there is no other way.
Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is reconciliation to God.
If a person rejects the Lord Jesus Christ ... who is the Way, the Truth, the Life ... there is no reconciliation with God because the party of the second part is not in agreement with God (the Party of the first part).
.
I looked up Sola Scriptura and immediately it defines as REFORMED Principles.
In other words, it doesn't matter if John, Peter, and Paul believes what they wrote proclaims Free Will and Jesus died for all men both saved and who rejected Him and they taught their own Disciples this and the Disciples wrote it down for all Christians.......it only matters how the REFORMED interpret what John, Peter, and Paul wrote.
Now I am without a shadow of a doubt convinced the Reformed Doctrine is as False as the words Satan uttered to Eve in the Garden.
Jordon....
Jordon, please...
Do a study on the acronym TULIP.
Find out what the problem is.
It is foundational for Calvinism...
Or, anyone else who falls into the same mind set.
Please.
Stop trying to make everyone to be polite who are resisting doctrines that besmirch the character of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Thank you!
Sola Scripture simply means that only scripture is infallible, and our only authority. Not the Pope (ex-cathedra). Not the Church Fathers. There's nothing "reformed" about it. Every non-Catholic church adheres to this, except yours it would seem. Since we can't agree on this basic essential doctrine, there's really no foundation to have any other discussions.
No, the idea itself was created by the Reformed Platform in attempt to claim they knew better. But if John, Peter, Paul teach their own Disciples something they are teaching first hand meaning which is absolute truth.
If you interpret different than John, Peter, Paul you are wrong. I will always believe their understanding of what they wrote over the baloney this doctrine is trying to spew.
I think that you have made your point, Quit running it into the ground! No one is interested, give it a rest! You have gone on and on about this to the point that you may have unknowingly switched and are beginning to discuss Peter, Paul and Mary and their disciples.
Yes, I remember them! They were an American folk group formed in New York City in 1961 during the American folk music revival, and they sang Puff the Magic Dragon.
Hahaha the folk group PP&M is hilarious!
But why should I stop?
People with your beliefs are using JP&P verses they wrote and claiming it means this when we know that JP&P believed what they wrote meant the exact opposite of what the Reformed are saying. And then they have the nerve to use the excuse of sola scriptura to justify their opposing beliefs to those who wrote the scriptures. I won't stop revealing this because a LIE is being told when we have the correct meaning from JP&P themselves. So why would I let a LIE continue? Is that what Jesus told us to do? Allow Scripture to be deceived when we have the true interpretation already? No, I am doing what Jesus instructed us to do!
I remember them! Whereas neither Peter, Paul, nor John mentioned free will. Anywhere!
You shouldn't stop! But, the reformed should not stop either!
Thanks for having a good sense of humor!
Quaint. But NONE of you understand nor have an answer to the fact that Matt 20 (linked also to the Gibeonites) quashes every Reformed dogma there ever was. It's obvious.....if you aren't wearing Reformed blinders.
Let's see... Matthew 20... Jesus gathers workers to Himself, asserts that the Father's
will has precedence over what men desire, and opens the eyes of blind men.
That is what we have been saying all along...
will has precedence over what men desire, and opens the eyes of blind men.
That is what we have been saying all along...
Warning, all FWers should stop at this point and read no further!
I Found a lot of truth in these words:
The apple does not produce itself, it does not sustain its own existence; it contributes nothing to its becoming an apple, being an apple or remaining an apple, for it is a product. The apple remains an apple only by that which was given to it by the tree. The apple is not an apple because of what it is, but because of what it was made to be. It was the tree, and not the apple that determined what it would be, for an apple tree never produces oranges. The apple is a product of something else over which it has no control. Something else brings it into being and sustains its life. The apple simply gets a ‘free ride’. An apple is something that something else has produced. To say the apple contributed in some way to its being an apple, or remaining an apple, is to only reveal one’s lunacy. It is to say that an apple can choose what it wants to be, or that a dog can choose what it wants to be. The dog, the apple or the saved man HAD NO CHOICE as to what they would be, AT ALL! Dogs are created, apples are created and the saved man is created a new creature in Christ by God according to the will of God. Nothing, and no one has any say in what they were created to be, nor do they remain what they are because of what they are, but only by what they were predetermined and created to be. The apple is solely a product of the tree from which it hangs. The apple has no right to receive any glory for its existence, for it is solely a product of that which deserves all the glory, the tree. So too, a Christian, a born again new creature created in Christ Jesus receives no glory for what he is, for all the glory is rightly and solely due to the One Who created and sustains him: Almighty God.
**MDB**
I Found a lot of truth in these words:
The apple does not produce itself, it does not sustain its own existence; it contributes nothing to its becoming an apple, being an apple or remaining an apple, for it is a product. The apple remains an apple only by that which was given to it by the tree. The apple is not an apple because of what it is, but because of what it was made to be. It was the tree, and not the apple that determined what it would be, for an apple tree never produces oranges. The apple is a product of something else over which it has no control. Something else brings it into being and sustains its life. The apple simply gets a ‘free ride’. An apple is something that something else has produced. To say the apple contributed in some way to its being an apple, or remaining an apple, is to only reveal one’s lunacy. It is to say that an apple can choose what it wants to be, or that a dog can choose what it wants to be. The dog, the apple or the saved man HAD NO CHOICE as to what they would be, AT ALL! Dogs are created, apples are created and the saved man is created a new creature in Christ by God according to the will of God. Nothing, and no one has any say in what they were created to be, nor do they remain what they are because of what they are, but only by what they were predetermined and created to be. The apple is solely a product of the tree from which it hangs. The apple has no right to receive any glory for its existence, for it is solely a product of that which deserves all the glory, the tree. So too, a Christian, a born again new creature created in Christ Jesus receives no glory for what he is, for all the glory is rightly and solely due to the One Who created and sustains him: Almighty God.
**MDB**