There is no proof in the Scriptures you chose that support OSAS. You’re ignoring the rest of what He says, too.
Is it ok to be once saved always saved.
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There is no proof in the Scriptures you chose that support OSAS. You’re ignoring the rest of what He says, too.
I understand well my friend.
if you have to do something, or to live a certain standard in order to ultimately get saved
You are under law. and you have rejected grace.
rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS
Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK
2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN
Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED US through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
eph 2: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and RAISED US UP TOGETHER , and MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED (A COMPLETED ACTION) THROUGH FAITH , (AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES ; it IS THE GIFT OF GOD, 9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST
You want to boast of how great and deserving you are of Gods salvation. Feel free. It will not cause God to forgive one sin you have committed
No
what I did was put what you said in context. and showed you ignored this part of the passage. You tried to cut it out.
As for the rest of scripture. see my last post. It is grace or it is works. There is no third option.
all of scripture agrees with this notion. for it can not contradict itself
actually you are ignoring what it says. and using scripture that does not say what you think it says to support your works based gospel.
Thats what the pharisees did. Lets become like the tax collector. not like the pharisee
The Greek grammar exhibited in John 10's use of the double negation in verse 28, as Jesus' declaration as the Shepherd
Who knows His sheep, "And I give them eternal life, and they will never perish-ever!"
Who knows His sheep, "And I give them eternal life, and they will never perish-ever!"
I stand by my statement!
-"Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
John 3:3, 5 NKJV
-"Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."" Acts 2:38-39 NKJV
Oh I agree 100% with this. And Jesus told us how.
As Moses lifted the serpent so too must the son of man be lifted up that whoever believes in him will NEVER PERISH but HAS ETERNAL LIFE. For God so LOVED the world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever BELIEVES IN HIM will NEVER PERISH but HAS ETERNAL LIFE for the son was not sent to judge but that the world may be saved. HE who believes is NOT CONDEMED. He who does not believe is condemned already
Being born again is not by works it by Grace though faith in the cross
I should have known. Jesus did not mention baptism to nicodemus because baptism is not required. It is your faith. Peter proclaimed those who repented would get the gift of the spirit. Try studying in the Greek
In Col 1: 24-29 Paul describes a mystery that was hidden from ages and from generations. Apparently it is still a mystery for many people on this thread. Paul tells us what the mystery is. It is Christ in us, the hope of glory. God's glory is His Holy Spirit which in Isaiah 63: 9-10 is described as the "angel of His presence". In otherwords, where the Holy Spirit is, the Father is. When Jesus ascended back to heaven to get glorified, he received from the Father a glorified body made up of people who receive the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit acts as a portal through which Christ can enter the being indwelled, and since Christ is filled with the Father's presence, both Father and Son enter our beings. That is how a person is born again. They work inside the person's being to change his motivation from love of self to love of God first and all others as he loves himself. John 14:23. Father and Son cannot fail, which means that if a so-called Christian loses his salvation by reverting back to his old ways, he never had it to begin with.
You didn’t mention a very good example! We don't know if Nicodemus fully accepted the Lord; it’s in question? Therefore the reason he wasn’t baptized is in question (?). You can’t assume one way or the other. However, the verse that I gave is a direct command.
which ones?
You could not show me the word baptize in john 3. can you show me in all of these passages where Jesus and paul gave us the gospel?
John 1: 11: 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12. But AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED HIM, to THEM he gave the right to become children, even TO THEM WHO BELIEVE 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (no works)
John 3, FOR God so loved the world he gave his only son that WHOEVER BELIEVES (trusts) in him will NEVER PERISH, and LIVE FOREVER (eternal life) for the son was not sent to judge, but that the world might be saved, he who BELIEVES is NOT CONDEMNED, he who does not believe is condemned already (no works)
John 4: 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will NEVER THIRST. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into EVERLASTING LIFE” (no works)
John 5: 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he whoever HEARS MY WORD and BELIEVES IN HIM WHO SENT ME who sent Me HAS ETERNAL LIFE and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT but HAS PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE (No works)
John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. HE WHO COMES TO ME shall NEVER HUNGER and he who BELIEVES IN ME shall NEVER THIRST (NO WORKS)
John 6: 37: and THE ONE WHO COMES TO ME I WILL BY NO MEANS CAST OUT 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, thatof all He has given Me I SHAL LOSE NOTHING, but SHOULD RAISE IT UP ON THE LAST DAY. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE AND I WILL (NOT MIGHT) RAISE HIM ON THE LAST DAY (NO WORKS)
John 6: 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME HAS EVERLASTING LIFE. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that THAT ONE MAY EAT OF IT AND NOT DIE 51 am the living bread which came down from heaven. IF ANYONE EATS THIS BREAD HE WILL LIVE FOREVER (NO WORKS)
John 6: 63 It is the SPIRIT WHO GIVES LIFE ; the flesh profits nothing. THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK to you ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE (SIGNIFYING THE BREAD FROM HEAVEN, THE FLESH AND BOOD ARE THE WORDS JESUS SPOKE. NOT THE PHYSICAL FOOD OR WORKS,)
EPH 1: 13 In Him YOU ALSO TRUSTED , after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also ,HAVING BELIEVED YOU WERE SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE 14 who IS THE GAURANTEE OF OUR INHERITANCE until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
THE INHERITANCE HE SAID WE ALREADY HAD IN THE 1ST 12 VERSES. (AGAIN, NO WORKS)
eph 2: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses,MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and RAISED US UP TOGETHER , and MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED (A COMPLETED ACTION) THROUGH FAITH , (AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES ; it IS THE GIFT OF GOD, 9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST (NO WORKS)
rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (AGAIN NO WORKS. PERIOD)
rom 4: 16 Therefore IT IF OF FAITH THAT IT MAY BE ACCORDING TO GRACE , so that THE PROMISE MAY BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED not only to those who are of the law, but also TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM , who is the father of us all (AGAIN, NO WORKS, IT IS OF GRACE THROUGH FAITH)
Rom 4: 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but ALSO FOR US, IT SHALL BE IMPUTED TO US WHO BELIEVE IN HIM WHO RAISED UP JESUS OUR LORD FROM THE DEAD , 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was RAISED BECAUSE OF OUR JUSTIFICATION (AGAIN NO WORKS)
Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK (AS i HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIME, GRACE + WORKS = WORKS.. GRACE AND WORKS CAN NOT MIX IN THE AREA OF SALVATION. ITS LIKE MIXING OIL AND WATER)
2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN (AGAIN, NO WORKS. BUT GRACE)
Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED US through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
(AGAIN, NO QUESTION HERE. PAUL LEAVES NO QUESTION. NO GOOD DEED CAN SAVE US,. WE ARE SAVED BY GODS MERCY, AND GIVEN THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. WHICH IS PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN
Titus 1: 2 in HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE which GOD WHO CAN NOT LIE PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN
this is what our faith is in, the grace and mercy of God. not our deeds.
I did not mention a good example? Wow talk about seeing it but not seeing it.
it does not matter if nicodemus was saved or not. What matters is what Jesus said (the apostle john wrote the words. Not nicodemus) so what nicodemus understood or did not understand has no bearing on anything
Jesus said you must be born again
Nicodemus asked how this can be
Just told him how (what I posted to you)
that is the BEST example. Because of baptism was require. Jesus would have said so right then and there.
Of course you would focus on those verses that underscores your man-made doctrine, and ignore the very verses that actually command you to baptize!
Baptism
-"He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."
Mark 16:16 NKJV
-"And when all the people heard Him, even the tax collectors justified God, having been baptized with the baptism of John. But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the will of God for themselves, not having been baptized by him."
Luke 7:29-30 NKJV
-"Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
John 3:5 NKJV
-"Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
Acts 2:38 NKJV
-""Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days."
Acts 10:47-48 NKJV
-"And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’"
Acts 22:16 NKJV
It actually does have bearing, but it’s flying over you. Why would anybody get baptized when they don’t fully believe??
It’s so obvious! So yes, it has bearing. Poor choice!!
Why would I not focus on them?
lets use one as an example
john 1, But as many as have received him, to THEM he gave the power to become sons of God.
Is it only those who recieve him in faith. or those who get baptized?
Thats just one verse. I showed you alot. and notice. you did not focus on one or even attempt to show me my error
I was baptized bv God.. which makes Mark 16 and John 3 agree with each other.
-"And when all the people heard Him, even the tax collectors justified God, having been baptized with the baptism of John. But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the will of God for themselves, not having been baptized by him."
Luke 7:29-30 NKJV
-"Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
John 3:5 NKJV
[/quote]
Been here done this, again, show me where Jesus told nicodemus to be baptized to get eternal life (pass from death to life)
so your bible contradicts itself I got it.
I mean if I add circumcision to the gospel and paul calls it a false gospel.. why do you think ading water baptism any different?
I recieved him, I looked in faith to him. I saw and I believed.
Because of it I passed from death to life. i was born again, I have Gods promise I will never perish and I will live forever.
I got immersed in water a year later.
Not of works lest anyone should boast. You want to boast. feel free.. Count me out.. I will boast in Christ
No, Your tryign to read somethign that is not there
Why would jesus not tell nicodemus he had to believe and get baptized if water baptism was required.
Because it is not.
I was cleansed by the word.
You want to clean yourself by water, feel free..
You feel free to Boast in water, I will boast in christ.
Been here done this, again, show me where Jesus told nicodemus to be baptized to get eternal life (pass from death to life)
so your bible contradicts itself I got it.
I mean if I add circumcision to the gospel and paul calls it a false gospel.. why do you think ading water baptism any different?
I recieved him, I looked in faith to him. I saw and I believed.
Because of it I passed from death to life. i was born again, I have Gods promise I will never perish and I will live forever.
I got immersed in water a year later.
Not of works lest anyone should boast. You want to boast. feel free.. Count me out.. I will boast in Christ[/QUOTE]
You’re stuck on Nicodemus! Why? Did you not understand my explanation? It’s simple, Jesus was discussing baptism, but he didn’t get it. We don’t know if he believed. End of story.
My Bible?? It’s God’s Word! Explain your comment to Him. There is ZERO contradiction.
You were baptized, happy to hear, but why are you so against it??
Actually I am stuck on John 3 because you brought it up. And I used the rest of Jesus conversation to prove you wrong
yes, and I understand it is in error
No, he was not discussing baptism, he was discussing the fact people need to be born again if they want to enter the kingdom of God.
amazing you think he was discussing baptism, but he never used the word once.
yet I just exposed massive contradictions where jesus and paul all said we are saved by grace through seeiong and believing, and you pull a few verses out that appear to say we must add baptism.
that is a contradiction
I am not against baptism, I am for it
I am against someone teaching a gospel of works by adding baptism as a work of merit to get saved.
Doesn't this verse speak to being once saved always saved? John 10:28-29. Jesus states, "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand