Gospel Confusion...

[Ouch]

if you have not been baptized by the spirit into christ. you are not yet saved.

which is why I asked.

Just planting seeds, I know you don't like me but I'm not giving you my opinion just sharing HIS WORD.

Look at the message, not the messenger.

Maybe it will help you, HIS word is deep and none of us will know it all.

This I know when HE came inside of me it changed my life.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

JESUS said can't enter without BOTH!

JESUS instructions for HIS DISCIPLES.

Acts 1,
2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

JESUS told them NOT TO GO OUT without the Holy Ghost.

This is what happens when HE fills us with the Holy Ghost, HE COMES IN US.

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 10,
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Acts 19,
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


Romans 6,
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

We get baptized INTO HIM that is when WE GO IN HIM.

1 Corinthians 14,

1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Read all of that chapter if you like, Paul goes into more detail.

ALL IN LOVE.

 

[Ouch]

Not so much, lol. Ouch and I don't seem to agree on very much at all.

So I havent read any single post from anyone except musicman that says Baptism has anything to do with salvation.

Afternoon, I'm not sure if we even debate anything before have we?

I think the first time was when you thought I said ? something about no one was saved in OT, but I was asking someone else that question.

Anyway, glad you are well and so happy you got the Holy GHost and I think we are reading from the same book and on the same page?

I know I'm not liked here much, but I'm not in a popalairty contest JESUS disciples along with JESUS himself was not liked either.

This I know when HE came inside of me by filleing me with HIS spirit the Holy GHost it changed my life.

I'm not expecing a response but this is what I shared with Everlasting grace.

If I understood, the question was can you be saved without the Holy Ghost.

I my self just share scripture and keep my oppnion out of it.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

JESUS said can't enter without BOTH!

JESUS instructions for HIS DISCIPLES.

Acts 1,
2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

JESUS told them NOT TO GO OUT without the Holy Ghost.

This is what happens when HE fills us with the Holy Ghost, HE COMES IN US.

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 10,
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Acts 19,
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


Romans 6,
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

We get baptized INTO HIM that is when WE GO IN HIM.

1 Corinthians 14,

1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Read all of that chapter if you like, Paul goes into more detail.

 

[TruthDefender]

again

for those claiming water baptism is required for salvation, it is a work of merit. you are trying to merit salvation by doing a work of merit.

What you are saying is not Scriptural!
Would you agree that we are supposed to be like Jesus, and follow the NT pattern?

 

[TruthDefender]

Because the Jews had been God’s chosen people and because the savior came through them, God chose to preach the gospel to the Jews FIRST. Romans 1:16 says it was for the Jews first and then also for the gentiles. This explains why in every city that Paul preached, he went to the Jews first. But he also preached to the gentiles. Especially when the Jews refused to hear him.

He preached the same gospel, the same message to all. Acts 15:7-9 Peter said that by his mouth the word of the gospel was preached to the gentiles so that they could believe. God is no respecter of persons. It was the same gospel for everyone. He goes on to say, that “He MADE NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN US AND THEM!!” Then in verse 11 he says “WE SHALL BE SAVED IN THE SAME MANNER AS THEY.” There is only one gospel, just like Ephesians 4 says, one Lord , one faith, ( not twofaiths—one for Jews and one for gentiles) and one baptism, and one body ( church, Colossians 1:18). The Bible does not teach two gospels. Christ came to unite all believers—not divide them.

Ditto, well said!

 

[TruthDefender]

Jesus has the last word:

John 3:5 (NKJV): 5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

 

[Ouch]

again

for those claiming water baptism is required for salvation, it is a work of merit. you are trying to merit salvation by doing a work of merit.

So I'm guessing the more you say it makes it true?

Your walk is between you and JESUS.

His word gives specific instructions on how we get rid of our sins, Acts 2:38, 22:16.

Many examples in the book of Acts that people were baptized in JESUS name, and in Romans Paul goes into detail what it is for and what it does.

Sin separates us from GOD.

Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

He does not hear sinners.

John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

Can't enter Heaven as sinners.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


So GOD does not hear sinners, so how can a person even speak to GOD unless he they have had there sins removed?

So much for the sinners prayer, not bible.

 

[Ouch]

Jesus has the last word:

John 3:5 (NKJV): 5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

WOW SO CLEAR, it's that easy.

 

[TruthDefender]

WOW SO CLEAR, it's that easy.

Yes, all we need is one verse; there are many more, but one is enough.

 

[BillG]

Yes, all we need is one verse; there are many more, but one is enough.

He also said

Matthew 28:18-20
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

 

[BillG]

So GOD does not hear sinners, so how can a person even speak to GOD unless he they have had there sins removed?

So you could not speak to God before you were baptised because your sins were not got rid off until you were baptised?

 

[TruthDefender]

He also said

Matthew 28:18-20
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

Actually, I should clarify that— ‘We only need one verse.’ For the most part, if it’s a command; if not a command, then other verses are helpful in understanding; and of course, context is everything!

 

[BillG]

So GOD does not hear sinners, so how can a person even speak to GOD unless he they have had there sins removed?

So when Jesus came and he spent time with sinners he did not hear them?

 

[TruthDefender]

So I'm guessing the more you say it makes it true?

Your walk is between you and JESUS.

His word gives specific instructions on how we get rid of our sins, Acts 2:38, 22:16.

Many examples in the book of Acts that people were baptized in JESUS name, and in Romans Paul goes into detail what it is for and what it does.

Sin separates us from GOD.

Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

He does not hear sinners.

John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

Can't enter Heaven as sinners.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


So GOD does not hear sinners, so how can a person even speak to GOD unless he they have had there sins removed?

So much for the sinners prayer, not bible.

Right, God knows hearts!! This whole passage in John 9 is about the Pharisees not believing the blind man and about Jesus’ miracle.

 

[BillG]

Right, God knows hearts!! This whole passage in John 9 is about the Pharisees not believing the blind man and about Jesus’ miracle.

Interesting

What about the following?

John 9:1-5

A Man Born Blind Receives Sight
1 Now as Jesus passed by, He saw a man who was blind from birth. 2 And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
3 Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him. 4 I must work the works of Him who sent Me while it is day; the night is coming when no one can work. 5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

Jesus said that neither the man or his parents did not sin.

What did he mean?
Obviously they must have sinned.

What was Jesus alluding to?

 

[TruthDefender]

Interesting

What about the following?

John 9:1-5

A Man Born Blind Receives Sight
1 Now as Jesus passed by, He saw a man who was blind from birth. 2 And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
3 Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him. 4 I must work the works of Him who sent Me while it is day; the night is coming when no one can work. 5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

Jesus said that neither the man or his parents did not sin.

What did he mean?
Obviously they must have sinned.

What was Jesus alluding to?

You left off the rest of that sentence:
…but that the works of God should be revealed in Him. I must work the works of Him who sent Me while it is day….
John 9:3–4

The answer: To show His power and to glorify God the Father.

 

[Ouch]

So you could not speak to God before you were baptised because your sins were not got rid off until you were baptised?

Sin separates us from GOD.

Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

He does not hear sinners.

John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

JESUS is the WORD and that's what it says.

 

[Ouch]

So when Jesus came and he spent time with sinners he did not hear them?

LOL, looks like HE heard them when HE was on this earth walking with us, as you can see in your bible.

He accended to Heaven and left us instruction in that same book, if we want to talk to HIM now.

You don't like the instructions???

WHY?

 

[TruthDefender]

LOL, looks like HE heard them when HE was on this earth walking with us, as you can see in your bible.

He accended to Heaven and left us instruction in that same book, if we want to talk to HIM now.

You don't like the instructions???

WHY?

It’s the same today, if we sin we are separated from God. The only thing that can redeem us is our repentance through Jesus— a penitent heart.

 

[Ouch]

Interesting

What about the following?

John 9:1-5

A Man Born Blind Receives Sight
1 Now as Jesus passed by, He saw a man who was blind from birth. 2 And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
3 Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him. 4 I must work the works of Him who sent Me while it is day; the night is coming when no one can work. 5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

Jesus said that neither the man or his parents did not sin.

What did he mean?
Obviously they must have sinned.

What was Jesus alluding to?

John 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

So JESUS said "Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents"

That healeing was done for "but that the works of God should be made manifest in him"

The healing proved no one but GOD could have healed him.

And you say they did sin, wonder why there is Gospel confusion???

Not even going to ask.

 

[Ouch]

It’s the same today, if we sin we are separated from God. The only thing that can redeem us is our repentance through Jesus— a penitent heart.

I know Paul said he has to die daily, we for sure will sin and we have to also.

This is how we get rid of our sins after we have been baptized in JESUS name.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.