Gospel Confusion...

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Everlasting-Grace said:
troll alert
Click to expand...

Where did you go?

You are real quick to call me a liar, and If I did you should.

Now you call me a troll?

Is that your way of running away from what comes out of your mouth and then are afraid of something, hid under your bed as a child would do?

You are real quick to say I perverted HIS word.

You are real slow proving I perverted HIS word.

Did you lie?

What are you going to do, nothing just slander people and walk away?

Do you call yourself a Christian and can't repent?

Do you know the first thing we need to do is repent to be saved?

I ask you as Paul asked,

Acts 19
King James Version
19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


Have you? How were you baptized?
 
Musicmaster said:
Playing this same old game over and over will never legitimize your tactics when accusing me of not agreeing with scriptures. I am disagreeing with YOU and your flawed applications and illegitimate ripping of verses out from their contexts. This isn't a discussion. It's you trying to gain the high ground with false accusations and yemmering your endless litany of strange and outlandish hermeneutics that would fail you in Theology 101.

So, until you actually address what I said and asked, this is just the same old junk from your keyboard steeped in utter indifference to what was asked and stated and that you ignored entirely. It's mostly just a one-sided conversation, which is more a matter of sermonizing rather than discussing the scriptures.

MM
Click to expand...

You follow Paul ONLY right.

I ask you as Paul asked,

Acts 19
King James Version
19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


Have you? How were you baptized?
 
  • Like
Reactions: TruthDefender
Edward429451 said:
Maybe the Ceremonial law is not for us and is a truth in the bible, but we're just supposed to throw out baptism? Then why is it in there in the first place? I can sort of understand why some people don't think the OT is important to us, but this is new testament stuff and I don't care if your Gentile or Jew, it is saying it to you.

Are us gentiles not grafted into the vine with the Lord's chosen? Oh, we are. What is with modern day Christians? I dont want to do any work, and I dont have to get baptized...?

That's not right Brother. It is spiritual laziness.
Click to expand...
Jesus told the disciples to go and make disciples of all nations (including Gentiles)

He then said to baptize them.

so yes. Baptism is a command given to all

however. not to get saved, but because you are saved (you are already a disciple)
 
Edward429451 said:
Water baptism is neither a "requirement" for salvation or a "work". It's a proclamation. Salvation is a free gift, it's like a sign on Bonus. Follow me and you'll receive this...(eternal life). Done deal so you signed up (I presume?) Ok, now what?

You just gave your life to Christ and it belong to Him now. So it is time to begin to serve God. Yes, the Lord requires us to be obedient. What is unclear about that God requires us to be obedient. Why don't you want to do anything for the kingdom of God?

Not wanting to be obedient to the will of God is the same thing as saying, I wont obey that and I have not given my life to the Lord...
Click to expand...
again

for those claiming water baptism is required for salvation, it is a work of merit. you are trying to merit salvation by doing a work of merit.
 
Edward429451 said:
I've heard several testimonies from people who said they got baptized in the Holy Ghost when the were water baptized.

Were they all lying? Wasn't Paul the Apostle to the Gentiles? (And AT the time of Christ!) So there you have it.

I didn't get baptized in the Holy Spirit until years and tears after my water baptism.
Click to expand...
ahh so you did not get saved until many years after your salvation?
 
Everlasting-Grace said:
Jesus told the disciples to go and make disciples of all nations (including Gentiles)

He then said to baptize them.

so yes. Baptism is a command given to all

however. not to get saved, but because you are saved (you are already a disciple)
Click to expand...

You are NOT following HIS word.

Matthew 28:19
King James Version
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Fyi, you can NOT be saved before getting rid of your sins.
 
Musicmaster said:
So, what those people were saying, then, is that they did not believe Paul's gospel of grace until after they were water baptized. It is taught nowhere in Paul's writings that salvation is a feeling or an emotion or a goose bump. It's only a work on the part of Christ Jesus that was finished on that cross and that was bestowed only when they believed upon the death, burial and resurrection of Christ on the third day for what His shed Blood accomplished for them. Being water baptised every day, coupled with strong emotion, will never supercede the necessity for believing in the sufficiency in that shed Blood. All the Charismatic testimony in the world will never change Paul's teaching to us on this. No testimony of experience of what one felt will change what scripture says.

When asking about if those people were lying, that's between them and God, not you and me. When you don't ask the right questions, only to use the wrong ones to try and trap another in the vice of emotional argumentation, no. I won't play that game with you. Let's talk about the scriptures rather than place experiential emotions above the written word of God.

That your experience was so different from those other people who may or may not have been lying, that should cause you to pause and think about all this. There's nothing magical in getting wet within some ceremonial baptism other than it simply being a public declaration of an inner work that SHOULD have already been accomplished through faith. It is ONLY faith that empowers the grace bbestowed.

Ephesians 2:5 — Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by grace ye are saved;

Ephesians 2:8 — For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

So, when you ask as to if those people were lying, I will ask alternatively if you think Paul was lying? See the difference? Ask the right questions rooted in biblical truth, and one can then glean and rest upon a more solid foundation with feet firmly set for the strongest of stance and stature in preaching the word of God to a hungry world.

MM
Click to expand...

Wow that's quite the word salad, even has a couple scriptures! Too bad you don't seem to know what you are talking about.

1. Who has said that Baptism is related to the blood of Christ? (You have).
2. Why are you trying to say that it is about the blood of Jesus when it is not?

3. Why do you keep insisting people say it is so, when it is only you?

The only thing you have proven is that you don't want to get Baptized.

Keep reading, and pray about all this. You can't tell me what I believe, lol!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Musicmaster
Ouch said:
Why would you say, "A prime example is. The gospel Jesus preached to ISRAEL alone, and instructed His disciples to not go to the Gentiles."

Question who was the first one to bing the gospel message to the Gentiles.

Second do you think Paul preached a different message to the Gentiles.

If you think that then SOME Gentiles got one message and other Gentiles got a different message.

Third question when Paul came across Gentels that never heard the message how would he know which Gentiles were to get which message?

THEN IT WAS PAUL WHO SAID THIS.

Ephesians 4:5-6

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Click to expand...

You do indeed err to assume Peter was THE apostle tonthe Gentiles. Because he had some mi history to a hand full of Gentiles, he was not THE apostle to the Gentiles.

Galatians 2:7 — But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

See that? Paul and Peter both had those to whom they were assigned, unless you believe Paul was a liar and therefore you are in disagreement with scripture. When Paul states that the gospel of the uncircumcised (Gentiles) was COMMITTED to him, who else apart from the Lord would make such an assignment? Peter was ASSIGNED for the gospel of the circumcised (Israel). Do you disagree with scripture? Circumcision and uncircumcision are not one and the same thing, which shows to us that there gospel of each was also not the same as is spelled out in Acts 2 and 1 Cor. 15. The elements are not the same, so you're barking up the wrong tree to claim that I am in disagreement with scripture when it clearly YOU who is at odds with the clear language...thus the reason I am in disagreement with YOU.

MM
 
Everlasting-Grace said:
if you have not been baptized by the spirit into christ. you are not yet saved.

which is why I asked.
Click to expand...

I have wondered about that myself. So, I am I saved now then, right?! So that's good. It is sort of odd how so many people have a small encounter with the Holy Spirit and say the sinners prayer in church and then go home and pronounce that they got saved and are Christian now, but they sit back down on the couch and don't move for the Lord or clean up their life or anything. Oh, that would be a works based salvation so I don't have to...there's the excuse they use.

Thinking back, it wasn't when I "got saved & baptised as a kid and we did the church thing and bible studies and all that, but then I grew up a little more and caught sight of females and essentially backslid for 30 years or so until after my marriage ended and I got hurt in an auto accident (I had a grand mal seizure going 70mph on the freeway). Right before I blacked out, I felt it it coming on for the first time in my life, I knew I was about to seizure. I saw myself losing consciousness in the mirror, and I said, Lord be with me. And the Lord jumped on that and saved my life! (PTL). And I had four months of recovery to ponder what happened and why am I alive?

My truck (according to witnesses) shot through traffic to the right without touching anyone (PTL!!) left the road at a high rate of speed and I hit a downed log which launched the truck into the air. While I was in the air, I hit a tree head on, passenger side front, which spun the truck sideways and it rolled 3 complete times. Why am I still alive? And I remembered saying Lord be with me, and at that point it was clear that He had been with me. He saved my life. I owe Him my life and understand that now. So I got serious about obeying the Lord and what His word says. I began reading in earnest and praying in earnest and repenting like a mad man!

And now that I think about it, it was after I got serious and began obeying the Lord, that I got baptized in the Holy Spirit Not a terribly long time after wards but within months.

I was on my back in bed for four months, I had plenty of time to read and pray, and did! Things started happening all around me! I was seeking Him. And He knew it so blessed me. He began right off teaching me all about love, and hasn't stopped yet! And therein is where our Relationship becomes real with Him. It is wrapped in Obedience. Jesus is the only one which baptizes in the Holy Spirit. He decides when and where and if...

Since Relationship is end goal with us and the Lord, and some gets baptized in the Spirit and some dont, so some are saved and some are, I never knew you?! That very well could be.
 
Edward429451 said:
I have wondered about that myself. So, I am I saved now then, right?! So that's good. It is sort of odd how so many people have a small encounter with the Holy Spirit and say the sinners prayer in church and then go home and pronounce that they got saved and are Christian now, but they sit back down on the couch and don't move for the Lord or clean up their life or anything. Oh, that would be a works based salvation so I don't have to...there's the excuse they use.

Thinking back, it wasn't when I "got saved & baptised as a kid and we did the church thing and bible studies and all that, but then I grew up a little more and caught sight of females and essentially backslid for 30 years or so until after my marriage ended and I got hurt in an auto accident (I had a grand mal seizure going 70mph on the freeway). Right before I blacked out, I felt it it coming on for the first time in my life, I knew I was about to seizure. I saw myself losing consciousness in the mirror, and I said, Lord be with me. And the Lord jumped on that and saved my life! (PTL). And I had four months of recovery to ponder what happened and why am I alive?

My truck (according to witnesses) shot through traffic to the right without touching anyone (PTL!!) left the road at a high rate of speed and I hit a downed log which launched the truck into the air. While I was in the air, I hit a tree head on, passenger side front, which spun the truck sideways and it rolled 3 complete times. Why am I still alive? And I remembered saying Lord be with me, and at that point it was clear that He had been with me. He saved my life. I owe Him my life and understand that now. So I got serious about obeying the Lord and what His word says. I began reading in earnest and praying in earnest and repenting like a mad man!

And now that I think about it, it was after I got serious and began obeying the Lord, that I got baptized in the Holy Spirit Not a terribly long time after wards but within months.

I was on my back in bed for four months, I had plenty of time to read and pray, and did! Things started happening all around me! I was seeking Him. And He knew it so blessed me. He began right off teaching me all about love, and hasn't stopped yet! And therein is where our Relationship becomes real with Him. It is wrapped in Obedience. Jesus is the only one which baptizes in the Holy Spirit. He decides when and where and if...

Since Relationship is end goal with us and the Lord, and some gets baptized in the Spirit and some dont, so some are saved and some are, I never knew you?! That very well could be.
Click to expand...
I am still confused. (great testimony, I am not confused about that. Yes I believe God spared you for a purpose!!)

Getting baptized with the spirit is essentially you being baptized into Christ and his death (rom 6) into his body (1 cor 12) and into him (gal 5)

It happens the moment one is saved, the moment they call out to Jesus.; the moment before they are anointed by the spirit (the spirit enters them and takes residents in them as a guide and a seal)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Edward429451
Musicmaster said:
You do indeed err to assume Peter was THE apostle tonthe Gentiles. Because he had some mi history to a hand full of Gentiles, he was not THE apostle to the Gentiles.

Galatians 2:7 — But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

See that? Paul and Peter both had those to whom they were assigned, unless you believe Paul was a liar and therefore you are in disagreement with scripture. When Paul states that the gospel of the uncircumcised (Gentiles) was COMMITTED to him, who else apart from the Lord would make such an assignment? Peter was ASSIGNED for the gospel of the circumcised (Israel). Do you disagree with scripture? Circumcision and uncircumcision are not one and the same thing, which shows to us that there gospel of each was also not the same as is spelled out in Acts 2 and 1 Cor. 15. The elements are not the same, so you're barking up the wrong tree to claim that I am in disagreement with scripture when it clearly YOU who is at odds with the clear language...thus the reason I am in disagreement with YOU.

MM
Click to expand...

It's clear you like taking.

I have show you respect by answering your questions the best I could, we not moving forward until you answer mine.

DON'T TELL ME WHAT HIS WORD SAY'S, SHOW ME WHAT HIS WORD SAY'S.

I hope you understand HIS word is the authority not your's or mine.

1. Who was the first one to bing the gospel message to the Gentiles.

2. Do you think Paul preached a different message to the Gentiles.

3. Do you think Paul gave different messages, one for the Jews one for the Gentiles?

4. What was the message that Paul preached in 1 Cor 15:1-4

5. Have you received the Holy Ghost since you have believed?

6. What do you think about what Paul said in
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

7. Why did Paul speak of the Holy Ghost in 1 Cor 14?

8. Why did Paul ask the Ephens in Acts 19 if they had the Holy Ghost and why did he ask them how they were baptized?

Sorry so many, they were pilling us since you didn't answer them before, and I added a couple.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back