Gospel Confusion...

[Ouch]

So before the NT the thief was saved because Jesus forgave his sins whilst both were on the cross?
He died under the OT laws, how does that save him?

Yet in the NT our sins are not forgiven until we are baptised.

Maybe then all we need to do is follow the OT laws to be saved?

If not then the NT is harsh. It negates grace, it negates we are saved by faith through grace.

The thief didn't need to be baptized to be saved (who was probably Jewish) you say.

But because Jesus is not next to us our sins cannot be forgiven unless baptised.
You suggest.

Luke 23:42-43
42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”
43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

The thief was saved by his faith in the LORD and who he actually was.
He knew Jesus would rise from the dead and he would be with him.

As you say the thief did not need to be saved by baptism and Luke confirm that.

Simple really.

When the thief on the cross died, he died OT laws. Where people had to take a sacrifice to the high priests ones a year to have their sins forgiven GOD RULES.

JESUS is our high priest and he became our sacrifice our lamb.
When JESUS was on this earth and forgave sins as he wished like the thief.

JESUS preach app 3 years, died on the cross, buried and rose again. Then he ascended to Heaven to put his blood on the mercy seat.

Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

He then returned to earth and was here app 40 days and ascended again commanding his disciples to wait because they will be filled with the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:3-4

He ascended the second time and this was the first message of how to be reborn.
Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Since then until he returns again, we live in NT laws and how to be saved we need to repent, get baptized in JESUS name to get rid of our sins and receive the Holy Ghost like JESUS gave his disciples in Acts 2:4.

 

[Edward429451]

Scripture?

He already posted scriptures for you! Or is those scriptures which say repent and be baptized mistranslated or something? Do they mean that God doesn't want you to be baptized?

 

[Musicmaster]

He already posted scriptures for you! Or is those scriptures which say repent and be baptized mistranslated or something? Do they mean that God doesn't want you to be baptized?

Again, not all truths in the Bible are for us today. Jesus commanded Israel to become baptized, not Gentiles. If Jesus had commanded the body of Christ to be baptized, Paul would have passed on to us that commandment, and yet 1 Cor. 15:1-4 are totally silent about that element being necessary for our salvation today. Jesus even commanded the twelve to go NOT unto the Gentiles with that gospel message. Even the cross was absent from the gospel preached by Christ and the twelve before the cross.

We MUST rightly divide the word of truth, which clearly shows to us that there are divisions within truths. Without rightly dividing the word of truth, you are proclaiming a confusing gospel message that is contradictory when applied to peoples to whom the Lord did not intend for it to be preached as His truth for us today.

Jesus also commanded the leper He had healed to go and offer up his sacrifice. I doubt you or anyone here follows that, conveniently so. That is one of many reasons there are divisions within truths.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Does that mean you disagee with Acts 2:38, 22:16?

How could I miss apply it if all I did was share two verses which tell us how to get rid of our sins.

Again, you continue asking the wrong question as a means for trying to circumvent the real issue at hand and to ignore what you have already been told. Peter was speaking to an audience he clearly identified as being ISRAEL. Why do you persist in ignoring that fact?

Show to me where Paul ever commanded water baptism for the body of Christ. Can you do that? In 1 Cor. 15:1-4 we see not even one hint of water baptism for salvation in the elements for salvation that Jesus Himself gave to Paul for him to preach to the body of Christ.

If you see yourself as a higher authority than Christ and His servant Paul, then please show to us something whereby the Lord empowered you to declare Paul a liar and/or guilty of the sin of omission right along with the Lord Himself.

Your habitual failure to rightly divide the word of truth continues to shine its sickly luster of colors not found in scripture. My disagreement is with you, not Acts 2. It is YOU who is in error.

MM

 

[Ouch]

Again, you continue asking the wrong question as a means for trying to circumvent the real issue at hand and to ignore what you have already been told. Peter was speaking to an audience he clearly identified as being ISRAEL. Why do you persist in ignoring that fact?

Show to me where Paul ever commanded water baptism for the body of Christ. Can you do that? In 1 Cor. 15:1-4 we see not even one hint of water baptism for salvation in the elements for salvation that Jesus Himself gave to Paul for him to preach to the body of Christ.

If you see yourself as a higher authority than Christ and His servant Paul, then please show to us something whereby the Lord empowered you to declare Paul a liar and/or guilty of the sin of omission right along with the Lord Himself.

Your habitual failure to rightly divide the word of truth continues to shine its sickly luster of colors not found in scripture. My disagreement is with you, not Acts 2. It is YOU who is in error.

MM

So you're ok with the book of Acts?

But don't like what Peter, the one with the keys to heaven has to say?

1 Corinthians,

1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

As you can see Paul was addressing the church not the unsaved.

Let's look at,

1 Corinthians 15:1-4

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

If you will also notice look at the first verse, BRETHREN which also proves he was speaking to his church.

Still in verse 1, what does it say?

"I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;"

Was you there to hear the message he was referring to???

Now Let's look at some dates, Acts 19 happened app 55 to 57 AD.
The letter Paul wrote to his church 1 Corinthians was app. 57 AD

Acts 19,
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Do you really think Paul gives out different messages?

Paul didn't command them to be baptized BUT he knew that believing was not enough so he started asking questions. Paul knowing baptism was VERY IMPORTANT, matter a fact he knew that receiving the Holy Ghost and being baptized in JESUS name go hand in hand.

I ask you HAVE YOU received the Holy Ghost since YOU HAVE BELIEVED?

 

[GWH]

He already posted scriptures for you! Or is those scriptures which say repent and be baptized mistranslated or something? Do they mean that God doesn't want you to be baptized?

Not in #702, which is what I replied to.

 

[Edward429451]

Again, not all truths in the Bible are for us today. Jesus commanded Israel to become baptized, not Gentiles. If Jesus had commanded the body of Christ to be baptized, Paul would have passed on to us that commandment, and yet 1 Cor. 15:1-4 are totally silent about that element being necessary for our salvation today. Jesus even commanded the twelve to go NOT unto the Gentiles with that gospel message. Even the cross was absent from the gospel preached by Christ and the twelve before the cross.

We MUST rightly divide the word of truth, which clearly shows to us that there are divisions within truths. Without rightly dividing the word of truth, you are proclaiming a confusing gospel message that is contradictory when applied to peoples to whom the Lord did not intend for it to be preached as His truth for us today.

Jesus also commanded the leper He had healed to go and offer up his sacrifice. I doubt you or anyone here follows that, conveniently so. That is one of many reasons there are divisions within truths.

MM

Maybe the Ceremonial law is not for us and is a truth in the bible, but we're just supposed to throw out baptism? Then why is it in there in the first place? I can sort of understand why some people don't think the OT is important to us, but this is new testament stuff and I don't care if your Gentile or Jew, it is saying it to you.

Are us gentiles not grafted into the vine with the Lord's chosen? Oh, we are. What is with modern day Christians? I dont want to do any work, and I dont have to get baptized...?

That's not right Brother. It is spiritual laziness.

 

[Edward429451]

Again, not all truths in the Bible are for us today.

Bull. Cookies.

 

[Musicmaster]

So you're ok with the book of Acts?

But don't like what Peter, the one with the keys to heaven has to say?

1 Corinthians,

1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

As you can see Paul was addressing the church not the unsaved.

Let's look at,

1 Corinthians 15:1-4

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

If you will also notice look at the first verse, BRETHREN which also proves he was speaking to his church.

Still in verse 1, what does it say?

"I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;"

Was you there to hear the message he was referring to???

Now Let's look at some dates, Acts 19 happened app 55 to 57 AD.
The letter Paul wrote to his church 1 Corinthians was app. 57 AD

Acts 19,
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Do you really think Paul gives out different messages?

Paul didn't command them to be baptized BUT he knew that believing was not enough so he started asking questions. Paul knowing baptism was VERY IMPORTANT, matter a fact he knew that receiving the Holy Ghost and being baptized in JESUS name go hand in hand.

I ask you HAVE YOU received the Holy Ghost since YOU HAVE BELIEVED?

There you go again. The slight of hand stuff doesn't work on me. You ignored the fact that Paul reiterated what he preached to them. I didn't have to be there to confirm that Paul spoke precisely what he had preached to them. He clearly stated in verse 3 that the following was his gospel message to them. It contained faith in the death, burial and resurrection on the third day for salvation.

Now, please explain to us all why you seem to think that water baptism can save anyone, which is a work, and therefore necessary for salvation. Is that your testimony? Do you think your water baptism aided in your salvation? John the Baptist baptized because that was a central tennet of the gospel he was given to preach. Paul said this:

1 Corinthians 1:17 — For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

See that? Baptism was no longer an element for salvation. On the other hand, John the Baptist said this:

John 1:33 — And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

So, you either see the clear distinctions in the gospel messages, or you ignore it all to continue sounding off falsehoods. John the Baptist said nothing about the cross in his gospel message. Jesus said nothing about the cross before the cross other than the fact of His coming death. The apostles said nothing about the cross in their gospel message until after the cross except when Peter mentio Ed the killing of Messiah ONLY as an indictment against Israel. Peter's gospel message only required repentance and baptism. He said not one word about the need to believe in the death and resurrection for salvation. Water baptism was a central feature for salvation under the Kingdom gospel preachePeter preached TO ISRAEL.

I'm sure you will ignore all of that, which is easily verified in the scriptures you claim to believe in.

So, what dodges will you apply to keep from answering these questions?

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Maybe the Ceremonial law is not for us and is a truth in the bible, but we're just supposed to throw out baptism? Then why is it in there in the first place? I can sort of understand why some people don't think the OT is important to us, but this is new testament stuff and I don't care if your Gentile or Jew, it is saying it to you.

Are us gentiles not grafted into the vine with the Lord's chosen? Oh, we are. What is with modern day Christians? I dont want to do any work, and I dont have to get baptized...?

That's not right Brother. It is spiritual laziness.

I never said anything about throwing out baptism. Everyone can be baptized as many times as they so choose. The difference is that those who boast of their baptism for their salvation are guilty of false testimony and false teaching.

If you don't believe in the absolute and total sufficiency of the Blood of Christ, that's on you, not me or anyone else. Adding baptism to the elements for salvation is a cursed thing to preach since it does not apply to us today just as circumcision is not for us today.

MM

 

[Edward429451]

Now, please explain to us all why you seem to think that water baptism can save anyone, which is a work, and therefore necessary for salvation. Is that your testimony? Do you think your water baptism aided in your salvation? John the Baptist baptized because that was a central tennet of the gospel he was given to preach. Paul said this:

Water baptism is neither a "requirement" for salvation or a "work". It's a proclamation. Salvation is a free gift, it's like a sign on Bonus. Follow me and you'll receive this...(eternal life). Done deal so you signed up (I presume?) Ok, now what?

You just gave your life to Christ and it belong to Him now. So it is time to begin to serve God. Yes, the Lord requires us to be obedient. What is unclear about that God requires us to be obedient. Why don't you want to do anything for the kingdom of God?

Not wanting to be obedient to the will of God is the same thing as saying, I wont obey that and I have not given my life to the Lord...

 

[Edward429451]

I never said anything about throwing out baptism. Everyone can be baptized as many times as they so choose. The difference is that those who boast of their baptism for their salvation are guilty of false testimony and false teaching.

If you don't believe in the absolute and total sufficiency of the Blood of Christ, that's on you, not me or anyone else. Adding baptism to the elements for salvation is a cursed thing to preach since it does not apply to us today just as circumcision is not for us today.

MM

You're not hearing me. I don't hear any boasting that Baptism saves. That's done through the blood of Christ as you say and it is sufficient for our salvation.

But saying the sinners prayer and getting born again is not the end of it! It is the beginning of it. Now you are a member. What do we do now? Oh, it tells us. Repent from our sins and stp sinning like we used to, get Baptized. Now report for boot camp.

After Jesus was Baptized, then was He led into the desert to be tempted of the devil. He denied Him self and fasted for 40 days. Boot camp my friend.

When Jesus was Baptized the Holy Spirit as a dove came and lighted on Him, and stayed. So...aren't we supposed to emulate Jesus and do what He did?

No my friend we are looking at spiritual laziness when someone bucks being baptized or doing any good works. Nobody said boot camp would be easy?

Did you go in the service? I bet you didn't talk back to your drill sergeant, lol! Or did you?

 

[Edward429451]

Adding baptism to the elements for salvation is a cursed thing to preach since it does not apply to us today just as circumcision is not for us today.

If you wont circumcise your flesh for the Lord then how can He circumcise your heart for your spiritual growth?

Baptism isn't nothing big to do but it ay have spiritual blessings tied to it through the Holy Spirit, so is that something that you do not want? It's a declaration that Hey, I am on God's Team Now!

When I got got hired at my very first security job after I went through Police training but decided not to be an officer at the last minute and so did not let them swear me in, I had discovered that I had skills too, I could fix stuff! So I went in business. New businesses always start slow and so I had the training so took a security Guard job.

They handed me one of those terrible stop sign adam-12 hats and I wont wear those. But I did want to be in uniform and look good. So I took a black beret that I had and got a shop to embroider the company initials onto a bank patch, then I sewed it onto my beret. And it looked so good that my boss let me wear it! He said, I like your attitude! I don't like those other hats either, lol. So it was good.

I could have been like you and tell him, I aint wearing your stupid hat and you can't make me. Now maybe he wouldn't have fired me if I didnt want to wear his hat, but it sure did make my boss feel good about me that I would spend 5 bucks and make my own better hat, for his team! That's showing a bit of team spirit. There's nothing wrong with making your boss feel good about you and showing that you do care and are behind him.

Same principle with baptism. You can refuse to be baptized and you prolly will still go to heaven, it isn't about Salvation. That was yesterday, today is today.

But it is about something spiritual because Jesus did it. That isn't a bunch of nutty wannabe christians saying it, it is the word of God. Scriptures have been posted. It wasn't a parable, lol.

If Jesus saw fit to do it, then why? Maybe the better question is why is it good to get baptized? That's enough answer for me right there, but, the Holy Spirit came to Jesus when He was baptized, so, is that some sort of promotion? On top of the declaration of my faith in the Lord God, Jesus?

Maybe more wisdom and understanding are imparted at baptism? I dunno. But it's something and shows enthusiasm for my team and my God, so I am proud to have been baptized. Maybe the ones who were baptized will get slightly larger rooms in their mansions than the saved who were not baptized? Or their understanding is better so they will less transformation needed to be done at the rapture? I don't know, but it has to mean more than nothing if Jesus did it.

And on that note, friend, I think you have made an error in your perspective.

 

[Edward429451]

John 1:33 — And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

I've heard several testimonies from people who said they got baptized in the Holy Ghost when the were water baptized.

Were they all lying? Wasn't Paul the Apostle to the Gentiles? (And AT the time of Christ!) So there you have it.

I didn't get baptized in the Holy Spirit until years and tears after my water baptism.

 

[Musicmaster]

I've heard several testimonies from people who said they got baptized in the Holy Ghost when the were water baptized.

Were they all lying? Wasn't Paul the Apostle to the Gentiles? (And AT the time of Christ!) So there you have it.

I didn't get baptized in the Holy Spirit until years and tears after my water baptism.

So, what those people were saying, then, is that they did not believe Paul's gospel of grace until after they were water baptized. It is taught nowhere in Paul's writings that salvation is a feeling or an emotion or a goose bump. It's only a work on the part of Christ Jesus that was finished on that cross and that was bestowed only when they believed upon the death, burial and resurrection of Christ on the third day for what His shed Blood accomplished for them. Being water baptised every day, coupled with strong emotion, will never supercede the necessity for believing in the sufficiency in that shed Blood. All the Charismatic testimony in the world will never change Paul's teaching to us on this. No testimony of experience of what one felt will change what scripture says.

When asking about if those people were lying, that's between them and God, not you and me. When you don't ask the right questions, only to use the wrong ones to try and trap another in the vice of emotional argumentation, no. I won't play that game with you. Let's talk about the scriptures rather than place experiential emotions above the written word of God.

That your experience was so different from those other people who may or may not have been lying, that should cause you to pause and think about all this. There's nothing magical in getting wet within some ceremonial baptism other than it simply being a public declaration of an inner work that SHOULD have already been accomplished through faith. It is ONLY faith that empowers the grace bbestowed.

Ephesians 2:5 — Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by grace ye are saved;

Ephesians 2:8 — For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

So, when you ask as to if those people were lying, I will ask alternatively if you think Paul was lying? See the difference? Ask the right questions rooted in biblical truth, and one can then glean and rest upon a more solid foundation with feet firmly set for the strongest of stance and stature in preaching the word of God to a hungry world.

MM

 

[Ouch]

There you go again. The slight of hand stuff doesn't work on me. You ignored the fact that Paul reiterated what he preached to them. I didn't have to be there to confirm that Paul spoke precisely what he had preached to them. He clearly stated in verse 3 that the following was his gospel message to them. It contained faith in the death, burial and resurrection on the third day for salvation.

Now, please explain to us all why you seem to think that water baptism can save anyone, which is a work, and therefore necessary for salvation. Is that your testimony? Do you think your water baptism aided in your salvation? John the Baptist baptized because that was a central tennet of the gospel he was given to preach. Paul said this:

1 Corinthians 1:17 — For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

See that? Baptism was no longer an element for salvation. On the other hand, John the Baptist said this:

John 1:33 — And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

So, you either see the clear distinctions in the gospel messages, or you ignore it all to continue sounding off falsehoods. John the Baptist said nothing about the cross in his gospel message. Jesus said nothing about the cross before the cross other than the fact of His coming death. The apostles said nothing about the cross in their gospel message until after the cross except when Peter mentio Ed the killing of Messiah ONLY as an indictment against Israel. Peter's gospel message only required repentance and baptism. He said not one word about the need to believe in the death and resurrection for salvation. Water baptism was a central feature for salvation under the Kingdom gospel preachePeter preached TO ISRAEL.

I'm sure you will ignore all of that, which is easily verified in the scriptures you claim to believe in.

So, what dodges will you apply to keep from answering these questions?

MM

His word doesn't work on you either, SO FAR.

Are you humble, will you accept scripture you don't agree with?????????

Do you think Paul gave different messages?

Have you received the Holy Ghost since you have believed?

What happen to those questions?

Well let's look at this again,

1 Corinthians 15:1-4

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

WHAT WAS THAT MESSAGE????? Death, burial, resurrection?

Where else did Paul mention death, burial, resurrection?

KNOW YE NOT????
Romans 6,
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

First you ask me why water baptism will save anyone then you tell me it's a work and since it's a work it's not necessary for salvation.

Second it's NOT MY TESTIMONY.

Why would you say that when it's JESUS who set up being baptized to get rid of our sins?

Acts 2:37-41
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

WOULD THOSE THREE THOUSAND SOULS BEEN ADDED WITHOUT THE WATER????

1 Peter 3,
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

HOW ABOUT THE GENTILES when they were grafted in?
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

LOL, So Paul was sent to preach and not baptize JESUS WAS TOO.

John 4,
1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

ARE YOU SAYING PAUL NEVER BAPTIZED?????

LOL, so that is your evidence that we don't need to be baptized, how shallow.

John 1:33 You use this verse to prove no more baptism DO YOU BELIEVE HIM WHEN HE SAYS JESUS WILL FILL YOU WITH THE HOLY GHOST???

Fyi, water baptism was for the Kingdom gospel to Israel.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

PROVING IT WAS FOR ALL.

Acts 8 was for the Samaritans,
Acts 10 was for the Gentiles,
Act 19 was for the Ephesians.

Did it look like I ignored all your thoughts or did I rely with HIS word which should bring you to a better understanding?

Did I dodge your thoughts or answer them?

Did you dodge my questions?

You still have some quetions to anwer.

Have you received the Holy Ghost since you have believed?

What was that message that was preached in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4?

 

[Musicmaster]

Some pride themselves on knowing what is said to other people in other books of scripture, and that we are empowered to take from those other sections of scriptures from those other places and piece them together where they do not belong. A prime example is. The gospel Jesus preached to ISRAEL alone, and instructed His disciples to not go to the Gentiles.

Now, that by itself doesn't prove the case for dispensational differences in gospel messages. One must be willing to look at the elements of the different gospels to see the differences. Failing to recognize the fact that Jesus Himself never preached a gospel of the cross, as was true of His disciples before the cross and withHis having instructed them to nkt go to even the Samaritan Jews, many seem to have some sort of blind indifference to that. They inject into any text at any point whatever meets with their doctrinal agenda.

Then, after Pentacost, Peter speaks of the killing of Christ as an indictment against the hearers who then asked what they should do in relation to their guilt.

Acts 2:38 — Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Where it is true that Paulnbaptized a very small hand full of people, he was glad to not have been sent to baptize, and even declared that the Lord's mission for him did NOT include baptism. Some have claimed that he had little time to baptize, and yet John thenBaptist preached WHILE baptizing, so that argument falls flat on its pathetic face.

Others like to point out Pauls actions in the place of his actual teachings and declarations as if the cliche of "Actions speak louder than words." Blessedly, doctrinal truth is not based upon clichés, but rather upon spoken truths that are precise and defining. Paul's actions are not said to be the express dictation of commandment from God. Dredging up from the text whatever meets with personal belief, that's just subjective application of conjured up, from thin air, some sort of contrived system of interpretation.

Paul explicitly stated the Gospel message for us today in 1 Cor. 15:1-4. He did not commit any sin of omission as some here have suggested or outright accused him of perpetrating. That lie from the pits of Hell should remain in that place rather than to be brought into this forum as s ok me sort of assumed battering ram of truth. It's a lie th at we all should be better than to even suggest. Paul was well aware of the importance of his writings, knowing full well the posterity they would serve toward.

So I'm hoping we all can dispense with foolishness and stick to the scriptures for what they say and take into consideration the contexts.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

His word doesn't work on you either, SO FAR.

Are you humble, will you accept scripture you don't agree with?????????

Do you think Paul gave different messages?

Have you received the Holy Ghost since you have believed?

What happen to those questions?

Well let's look at this again,

1 Corinthians 15:1-4

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

WHAT WAS THAT MESSAGE????? Death, burial, resurrection?

Where else did Paul mention death, burial, resurrection?

KNOW YE NOT????
Romans 6,
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

First you ask me why water baptism will save anyone then you tell me it's a work and since it's a work it's not necessary for salvation.

Second it's NOT MY TESTIMONY.

Why would you say that when it's JESUS who set up being baptized to get rid of our sins?

Acts 2:37-41
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

WOULD THOSE THREE THOUSAND SOULS BEEN ADDED WITHOUT THE WATER????

1 Peter 3,
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

HOW ABOUT THE GENTILES when they were grafted in?
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

LOL, So Paul was sent to preach and not baptize JESUS WAS TOO.

John 4,
1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

ARE YOU SAYING PAUL NEVER BAPTIZED?????

LOL, so that is your evidence that we don't need to be baptized, how shallow.

John 1:33 You use this verse to prove no more baptism DO YOU BELIEVE HIM WHEN HE SAYS JESUS WILL FILL YOU WITH THE HOLY GHOST???

Fyi, water baptism was for the Kingdom gospel to Israel.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

PROVING IT WAS FOR ALL.

Acts 8 was for the Samaritans,
Acts 10 was for the Gentiles,
Act 19 was for the Ephesians.

Did it look like I ignored all your thoughts or did I rely with HIS word which should bring you to a better understanding?

Did I dodge your thoughts or answer them?

Did you dodge my questions?

You still have some quetions to anwer.

Have you received the Holy Ghost since you have believed?

What was that message that was preached in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4?

Playing this same old game over and over will never legitimize your tactics when accusing me of not agreeing with scriptures. I am disagreeing with YOU and your flawed applications and illegitimate ripping of verses out from their contexts. This isn't a discussion. It's you trying to gain the high ground with false accusations and yemmering your endless litany of strange and outlandish hermeneutics that would fail you in Theology 101.

So, until you actually address what I said and asked, this is just the same old junk from your keyboard steeped in utter indifference to what was asked and stated and that you ignored entirely. It's mostly just a one-sided conversation, which is more a matter of sermonizing rather than discussing the scriptures.

MM

 

[Ouch]

Playing this same old game over and over will never legitimize your tactics when accusing me of not agreeing with scriptures. I am disagreeing with YOU and your flawed applications and illegitimate ripping of verses out from their contexts. This isn't a discussion. It's you trying to gain the high ground with false accusations and yemmering your endless litany of strange and outlandish hermeneutics that would fail you in Theology 101.

So, until you actually address what I said and asked, this is just the same old junk from your keyboard steeped in utter indifference to what was asked and stated and that you ignored entirely. It's mostly just a one-sided conversation, which is more a matter of sermonizing rather than discussing the scriptures.

MM

LOL, don't like HIS word so you pin the problem on me.

It's not my job to make you see, it's my job to share HIS word.

Notice I just shared HIS word, I talk as less as possible.

1 Corinthians 3:6-8
King James Version
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

Wonder what happens to those who do not accept HIS word?

NOTE, you did not answer my questions.

 

[Ouch]

Some pride themselves on knowing what is said to other people in other books of scripture, and that we are empowered to take from those other sections of scriptures from those other places and piece them together where they do not belong. A prime example is. The gospel Jesus preached to ISRAEL alone, and instructed His disciples to not go to the Gentiles.

Now, that by itself doesn't prove the case for dispensational differences in gospel messages. One must be willing to look at the elements of the different gospels to see the differences. Failing to recognize the fact that Jesus Himself never preached a gospel of the cross, as was true of His disciples before the cross and withHis having instructed them to nkt go to even the Samaritan Jews, many seem to have some sort of blind indifference to that. They inject into any text at any point whatever meets with their doctrinal agenda.

Then, after Pentacost, Peter speaks of the killing of Christ as an indictment against the hearers who then asked what they should do in relation to their guilt.

Acts 2:38 — Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Where it is true that Paulnbaptized a very small hand full of people, he was glad to not have been sent to baptize, and even declared that the Lord's mission for him did NOT include baptism. Some have claimed that he had little time to baptize, and yet John thenBaptist preached WHILE baptizing, so that argument falls flat on its pathetic face.

Others like to point out Pauls actions in the place of his actual teachings and declarations as if the cliche of "Actions speak louder than words." Blessedly, doctrinal truth is not based upon clichés, but rather upon spoken truths that are precise and defining. Paul's actions are not said to be the express dictation of commandment from God. Dredging up from the text whatever meets with personal belief, that's just subjective application of conjured up, from thin air, some sort of contrived system of interpretation.

Paul explicitly stated the Gospel message for us today in 1 Cor. 15:1-4. He did not commit any sin of omission as some here have suggested or outright accused him of perpetrating. That lie from the pits of Hell should remain in that place rather than to be brought into this forum as s ok me sort of assumed battering ram of truth. It's a lie th at we all should be better than to even suggest. Paul was well aware of the importance of his writings, knowing full well the posterity they would serve toward.

So I'm hoping we all can dispense with foolishness and stick to the scriptures for what they say and take into consideration the contexts.

MM

Why would you say, "A prime example is. The gospel Jesus preached to ISRAEL alone, and instructed His disciples to not go to the Gentiles."

Question who was the first one to bing the gospel message to the Gentiles.

Second do you think Paul preached a different message to the Gentiles.

If you think that then SOME Gentiles got one message and other Gentiles got a different message.

Third question when Paul came across Gentels that never heard the message how would he know which Gentiles were to get which message?

THEN IT WAS PAUL WHO SAID THIS.

Ephesians 4:5-6

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.