Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Cameron143]

Offered something as to persuade if willing to reason.
The same persuasive argument one can also refuse if so desired.

God does not make one to believe.
He simply provides what is needed to believe, if one wants to believe.

You just can not fathom someone being free to, and not wanting to believe.
Like Satan did.....

Never said He forced anyone. Are you saying conviction includes persuasion?

 

[Rufus]

Rage on. The wise and discerning around here are keeping score buddy.

We know exactly who's who in the zoo believe it

And I suppose you PRIDE yourself for being so wise and discerning, right?

If YOU were so wise and discerning, how come you are so ignorant of the truths I posted from the bible? I guess your self-proclaimed wisdom and discernment must be the new 21st century style, heh, Mr. Wordly Wise Man?

But hey...there's still a very minuscule chance that you can redeem yourself from such pride: All you have to do is find a verse that says that God loves the proud and gives grace to them. But since it's kinda unlikely that you'll be able to find such a text in the bible, you're gonna have to live with the knowledge that God favors the humble and is partial to them. See...God plays favorites after all. And this isn't all! It's gets even worse for FWT!

Here's another truth you can keep score on: There are other and even more profound implications to this spiritual principle...but I'm going to be merciful to you because I would hate to see your head implode -- at least for today.

 

[lrs68]

You’ll notice the tactic of never actually replying to anything you’ve said but turning and making you defend something you weren’t even talking about lol ….

this is how I feel after some of these discussions

Absolutely spot on 100%

 

[reneweddaybyday]

And this passage comports quite well with Josh 24:19 wherein Joshua told the people straight up that they're not able to serve God because He is holy.

quit ripping verses from the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed them and believe what Scripture actually tells you:

Joshua 24:19-20 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins. If ye forsake the LORD, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good.

The same holds true in our day and time ... if we turn from the Lord and serve idols, we will not receive the blessing God promises to those who follow Him even though we are saved from the moment we believe the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe.
.

 

[lrs68]

You clearly implied it! The writers of the NT wrote only to first century believers. The rest of divine revelation is irrelevant to subsequent generations. Besides....I'd bet my last dollar that you're a big advocate for Dispensationalism, right? And in that crazy, wonky eschatological system there's at least two of everything! So, it fits in with how you view the NT and to whom it applies.

No, I literally mean that our Generation is not the First Fruition of Christianity. It's very much like Paul discussing the Old Testament Saints by calling them as Foreknown and Chosen and Sanctified through Jesus Christ like Romans 8:29-30 and Ephesians 1 talk about.

But none of that takes away from our own Salvation and Sanctification through Jesus Christ nor does it lessen the Power of God in our lives because we have the same Gifts, Fruits of the Spirit, and abilities given to the first established Church set up by the Apostles.

 

[GWH]

Someone exercised their free will to murder a Christian brother today.
May he be caught and justice done.

 

[cv5]

how come you are so ignorant of the truths I posted from the bible?

How come you and your crew failed so miserably to shoehorn the Luke 7 event into some kind of Calvinist straitjacket?
Granted, it was uproarious to watch you and your homies thrashing about fitfully while trying.

 

[lrs68]

Someone exercised their free will to murder a Christian brother today.
May he be caught and justice done.

Charlie Kirk?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Absolutely spot on 100%

Big Ben ….parliament ….

 

[studier]

quit ripping verses from the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed them and believe what Scripture actually tells you:

Joshua 24:19-20 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins. If ye forsake the LORD, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good.

The same holds true in our day and time ... if we turn from the Lord and serve idols, we will not receive the blessing God promises to those who follow Him even though we are saved from the moment we believe the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe.
.

You're of course absolutely correct about the Joshua context. A command to make a choice is also included in Joshua24:15 and they made it per Joshua24:21-22.

It's interesting how we've been asking this change from a devout determinist. But their system is a self-insulating and self-validating loop:

• We don't change unless God changes us.
• God isn't changing me.
• I don't need to change.

Same for humility:

• God gives grace to the humble
• God gives me grace.
• I'm humble.

 

[Magenta]

Romans 7 v 14, John 8 v 34, Jeremiah 13 v 23, Romans 3 v 10 ~ We know that the law is spiritual; but
I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.” Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? Neither are you able to do good - you who are accustomed to doing evil. There is no one righteous, not even one.

 

[Jordon]

Any righteousness we have is not our own, but Christ's (we put on His), so only God is good regardless of whether you are comparing Him to the natural man or to the spiritual man. It is so odd that the heretics here oppose and mock this Scriptural truth. I agree that the free will position is absurd. Scripture plainly tells us that man is a slave to sin. His love for darkness has him refusing to come into the light, and he is opposed to the Spiritual things of God which he can neither receive nor comprehend... and it is Jesus Who sets us free. That man is defined as darkness itself so it translates quite nicely into his love of self over his love of God, which he cannot do with his hostile mind and stony heart, which is why God needs to replace it ... and He draws us with loving-kindness ... this is personal, and knowing God is only through personal revelation, something else that is mocked by some of these heretics. The natural man -the one who is not indwelt with the Holy Spirit- cannot receive these things from God, since they are discerned only through the Spirit.

I understand magenta. I know your faith now, I know you mean well.

These scriptures are the deepest of deepest scripture. That really are for the spiritualy mature.
It's difficult to know what approach to take when discussing these matters with people you don't know,

For those people not understanding God fully the danger of giving them meat before milk, can be to over whelming for them. a person has to behave and do his best obey God's commandments for God, himself, and others around him. He must also be brought up accordingly to have respect manners discipline care for himself cleanliness, good morals in order for him to even conform to the word of God. Otherwise conforming to the word of God is that much harder.

It's difficult to say what kind of relation God
has with each and every individual, whether there hurting whether there lost, whether they feel not loved whether there trapped afraid poor or needy or homeless,.scared for there salvation. These conditions need knowing before these matters are discussed


God will have a plan for everyone, and at some point in there life they with have to decide one way or another whether to repent then from there sins and love God with all there heart turm over a new leaf, and live upright.

 

[Rufus]

quit ripping verses from the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed them and believe what Scripture actually tells you:

Joshua 24:19-20 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins. If ye forsake the LORD, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good.

The same holds true in our day and time ... if we turn from the Lord and serve idols, we will not receive the blessing God promises to those who follow Him even though we are saved from the moment we believe the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe.
.

Cannot doesn't = will not! Joshua didn't tell the Israelites that they will not serve the Lord or won't serve the Lord -- but cannot serve.
And besides, was Joshua wrong? Were not the Israelites a stubborn, stiff-necked, apostate covenant breakers?

Why can't YOU believe what Joshua said?

 

[Jordon]

Elder as in older.

In some cultures, the the best ones in my opinion, respecting one's elders is widely practiced and expected, so dialogue with them is never derogatory or disrespectful even when disagreeing.

No problem from me respecting elders or older people for that matter,

Providing there love hasn't grown cold, and I can't see that much respect has been shown for some elders here, in particular one good elder magenta who spends everyday welcoming new people here, no doubt in order to get to know people first.

Unlike the disrespect from others who feel they know magenta how they want her known.

 

[BillyBob]

She was drawn to Christ after being "enabled" to place her faith in the only one who could forgive her sins.

Hilariously, this Calvinist fantasy is nowhere to be found in the entirety of the episode.

You only are able to find the truth once you have been given eyes to see!

 

[cv5]

You only are able to find the truth once you have been given eyes to see!

Thats the myth/folklore/fable/fallacy alright.
Nobody in their right mind believes it.

 

[Jordon]

Those passages you quoted could pertain to arrogant believers and arrogant unbelievers.
Context will determine which one it is.

There are humble believers.
There are also arrogant believers.
Both are saved.
Both are not delivered just because they are saved.

1 Corinthians 11:30-32

​

For this reason, many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. ​

For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. ​

But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not ​

be condemned with the world.​

When God draws someone unsaved?
The drawing process must be able to humble them before that person is to be handed over to Jesus for salvation. .

After salvation, some believers can, and do, live arrogantly.

1 John 5:16-17

​

If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, ​

you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does ​

not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you ​

should pray about that. All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not ​

lead to death. ​

Arrogant believers end up experiencing the sin onto death.
Having no peace in their dying.
But!
They are saved because they humbled themselves at the moment they believed!
Then, some snap back into living in human confidence (arrogance) about themselves.

God does not save the arrogant believer from his troubles.
So I pray you will learn to get the context of those passages you cite.
Some were directed at His people who became arrogant before God.

grace and peace ..........

God will give grace to his children to let them know satan is there.

Do you know when satan is there ?

 

[Jordon]

Those passages you quoted could pertain to arrogant believers and arrogant unbelievers.
Context will determine which one it is.

There are humble believers.
There are also arrogant believers.
Both are saved.
Both are not delivered just because they are saved.

1 Corinthians 11:30-32

​

For this reason, many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. ​

For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. ​

But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not ​

be condemned with the world.​

When God draws someone unsaved?
The drawing process must be able to humble them before that person is to be handed over to Jesus for salvation. .

After salvation, some believers can, and do, live arrogantly.

1 John 5:16-17

​

If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, ​

you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does ​

not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you ​

should pray about that. All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not ​

lead to death. ​

Arrogant believers end up experiencing the sin onto death.
Having no peace in their dying.
But!
They are saved because they humbled themselves at the moment they believed!
Then, some snap back into living in human confidence (arrogance) about themselves.

God does not save the arrogant believer from his troubles.
So I pray you will learn to get the context of those passages you cite.
Some were directed at His people who became arrogant before God.

grace and peace ..........

God will give grace to his children to let them know satan is there.

Do you know when satan is there ?

 

[Blain]

Of course, it's found in the parable. You're still assuming that God has always intended to save each and every person in the world which is not true! He has never decreed the salvation of all men -- and this has been so since the very beginning right after the Fall! There is a 100% success rate for all the seed that falls on GOOD soil!

If God decreed the salvation of all men in the distributive sense we'd find a redemptive covenant that a covenant-making God made with the entire world. But where is such a covenant found in scripture?

1 Timothy 2:4, which states, "who desires all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth
The scriptures say otherwise

 

[rogerg]

Thats the myth/folklore/fable/fallacy alright.
Nobody in their right mind believes it.

Really?

[Jhn 12:37-40 KJV]
37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with [their] eyes, nor understand with [their] heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

[Mat 13:15-16 KJV]
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.