Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Genez]

What you claim is not even what that verse says. But that is typical for you.

............... Have you read it lately?

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. ​

When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory. Eph 1:13-14​

​

We were not regenerated before we were born again.

When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit....​

​

​

.​

 

[Magenta]

Lack of understanding. LOL
Short video break!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1964764166356697367

Now I can see the video. Yeah, looks like people lying about who they are. And lying about Calvin as well.
That seems to be a big issue with free willers: Using their freedom as an excuse to do evil. Shame.

 

[HeIsHere]

So you won't answer my question:
Does conviction have a persuasive component?

I was not part of that conversation and I am not going back to read it.

To me there is only issue that destroys the "R" system and that is >>>

sanctification (washing, cleansing the heart, part of salvation) cannot precede justification.

 

[Magenta]

Faith/belief IN Christ Jesus always is before.

Being able to receive and understand the things of God is always before, which follows God's enabling.

Because unlike what you claim, man cannot just will himself into being compliant to God.

His very nature is opposed to such.

That is what Scripture very plainly teaches.

 

[Rufus]

Yeah it’s funny they claim god is soveriegn …. Yet when you show them his judgements like this repetetive and consistent from this time forward

“And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:22, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

First son of man ever born

“Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted?

But if you do not do what is right,

sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:6-7‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Israel gods chosen nation

“See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:15, 19‬ ‭

After the law was broken by them

“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good,

or whether it be evil.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; and hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth;

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or evil.

Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

all the sudden his sovereign judgements aren’t acceptable

“God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:6-11‬ ‭

Doesnt matter how often it’s repeated if it doesn’t fit the idea of “pre destination and no one needing to do what god said we need to do , then it’s not acceptable…. Tbis by those explaining how the “ natural man “ just can’t accept the things of God lol as they reject clear and repetetive doctrine it’s like twilight zone …. one of my favorite shows in my youth.

“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i guess only the “ natural and “ unregenerate “ man …..would possibly believe what the Bible actually says instead of explaining why it’s not true

I guess you have never noticed that Solomon in Eccl 12 did not say that to fear God and to keep his commandments are well within man's spiritual ability? Rather, Solomon rightly wrote that it's mankind's DUTY towards God. And this passage comports quite well with Josh 24:19 wherein Joshua told the people straight up that they're not able to serve God because He is holy.

 

[cv5]

The phrase "all men" is qualified in the context and should, therefore, be understood in the limited sense. It refers to Gentiles only to whom God sent Paul (v. 7). Since Jews are excluded in the passage, the phrase logically cannot be understood in the distributive sense.

Moreover, if God has willed (decreed in eternity) that all men be saved, then there is a huge theological problem with this interpretation since God's purposes and plans cannot be thwarted or frustrated by mere mortals. Huge contradiction!

Thirdly, if God willed in eternity past that all men be saved w/o exception, then where in the bible is the redemptive covenant God made with all mankind w/o exception?

Fourthly, how could God have ever decreed (willed) in eternity past to save all men w/o exception when He doesn't even give all men his grace!? God gives grace to only his humble chosen remnant in this world. The God-hating world doesn't qualify for His grace since it has no love for God. But love for God is absolutely essential since true love does not delight in evil (the way the world does, cf. Jn 3:19) and such love is not proud, which is precisely what the world is (1Cor 13:4)!

Fifthly, it's impossible for the world to turn away from evil and do good apart from the grace of the Fear of the Lord being instilled into everyone's hearts. But again...the promise of this grace was made to only God's chosen people -- not the world at large. Therefore, the world has zero spiritual power to turn from its sins!

Lastly, the vast majority of translations render v. 4 as God wants, wishes, desires or longs for which speaks to God's Dispositional Will. Evidently, all those different teams of language scholars involved with those various translations recognized the multitude of theological problems that would ensue with the term "wills" to be saved or "will have" to be saved.

Meanwhile...there are no biblical or theological problems of any kind when the above passage is interpreted in its context. Meanwhile, FWT has insurmountable theological problems to overcome with your inane, sloppy, careless and irresponsible interpretation.

This ridiculous tirade is a stellar example of super-determinist gate slamming.
It's more of the same standardized high-sounding elitist exclusionary religious malpractice.

This passage jumped into my mind.....

Mat 23:13
“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

 

[Jordon]

Yea my God isn’t a puppet master he created people to freely love one another and dwell with him eternally . Good luck with the marvel version of the puppet master …. I hope that you’re one of the secret chosen puppets who he forces to do good and chooses to save based on what he forces you to do . And not one of the ones he forces to do evil then blames and punished for it .

ok so your God isn't a puppet master but my God is ?

I do recall you said God is puppet master to me who pulls strings.

Did that come from you not accepting Judgment question I had

Or did that come from you not accepting rebuttal when I called you out for saying it was wrong to carry on using the innocent baby approach ?

which was made more wrong, because you carried on to use that approach after I said the nice things i did about innocent babies, can you see how that could offend someone ?

Where did that remark really come from sir

Have you chosen to hate me ?
What is it sir that's making you act this way really.

Has it got something do with all you believe is a person needs to do repent and be saved that's what bothering you ?

Well you know sir despite what so called friend say ls I couldn't mock that, and all he done is ping you to stare up more trouble, he recruiting for his mob I think.

It would be cursing the holy spirit that one if I was Mocking repenting.

And on another note sir that thought crossed his mind not mine.

But the thing is sir people have to be handed over to son first.

On another note do you need to keep on telling Christians to repent and be saved ? Is there a reason for that ?

One last thing

Just a nice question

What do you like most about God's Judgment

 

[cv5]

Yea my God isn’t a puppet master he created people to freely love one another and dwell with him eternally . Good luck with the marvel version of the puppet master …. I hope that you’re one of the secret chosen puppets who he forces to do good and chooses to save based on what he forces you to do . And not one of the ones he forces to do evil then blames and punished for it .

Well spoken sir.

 

[lrs68]

Nonsense! What part of 1Pet 1:2 and 2Thess 2:13 can't you understand?

That Peter and Paul are talking to the literal [First Fruits] of the Christian Faith. Today's Christian are Remnants of that Generation.

 

[Rufus]

1 John 2:1-2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
.

Since John excluded Israel (i.e. "our sins") from the "sins of the whole world", then logically the qualified phrase must be understood in the limited sense as referring to the Gentile nations of the world. If John wanted to use the phrase "whole world" in the distributive sense, he could have just as easily have said something along these lines: "and also for the sins of the rest of the world", or for the sins of the other nations as well", etc. In either of these cases, John would have included Israel in with the "whole world".

 

[Rufus]

Pilgrimshope said:


Yea my God isn’t a puppet master he created people to freely love one another and dwell with him eternally . Good luck with the marvel version of the puppet master …. I hope that you’re one of the secret chosen puppets who he forces to do good and chooses to save based on what he forces you to do . And not one of the ones he forces to do evil then blames and punished for it .

Since you alluded to eternity, how is God not going to be YOUR "puppet master" in the eternal New Order wherein YOU will NOT be able to sin any longer!?

 

[Rufus]

That Peter and Paul are talking to the literal [First Fruits] of the Christian Faith. Today's Christian are Remnants of that Generation.

So, you're saying that those two passages don't apply to "today's Christian...Remnants"? How so, since both statements are unqualified!?

 

[cv5]

Yea my God isn’t a puppet master he created people to freely love one another and dwell with him eternally . Good luck with the marvel version of the puppet master …. I hope that you’re one of the secret chosen puppets who he forces to do good and chooses to save based on what he forces you to do . And not one of the ones he forces to do evil then blames and punished for it .

Come to think of it, the "excluders" and "gate slammers" need to consider whether THEY will be excluded and have the door shut on them unexpectedly.

Luk 13:25
“When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,' and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,'

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Indeed!!


Allowing people to reject Him is what distinguishes the benevolent and loving sovereignty of the TRUE God from the tyrannical control of the deity/false god of Calvinism.

Yeah it would make him a liar also

This is a true biblical sequence:

>>> heard the gospel - believed the gospel - received the Spirit (Eph 1:13-14)

This sequence is NOT found in Scripture:

>>>> chosen for salvation - regenerated - given saving faith.

The second is deception.
No one is cleansed prior to belief/faith.

Amen

“No one is cleansed prior to belief/faith.”

and how can they believe unless they first hear ?

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s not “ whoever is already saved and chosen shall believe ….but whoever isn’t chosen and is already damned shall believe not “

that’s as backwards a view as one can have of what’s actually written there and always had been the same….until it met “ the modern day marvel universe of hypergrace doctrine “ where even making a choice or being held accountable for your actions …..is beyond you. Basically Gods entire established system isn’t for you just forget it all and say “ grace “ now hope you’ve been chosen , and pray you are pre detonates to burn for the things god forced upon you to do so later he can hold you accountable for it when your suffering at his Will …..for again , what he forced you to do , and failed to ever help you be saved

Biblical v fantasy

 

[Genez]

Since John excluded Israel (i.e. "our sins") from the "sins of the whole world", then logically the qualified phrase must be understood in the limited sense as referring to the Gentile nations of the world. If John wanted to use the phrase "whole world" in the distributive sense, he could have just as easily have said something along these lines: "and also for the sins of the rest of the world", or for the sins of the other nations as well", etc. In either of these cases, John would have included Israel in with the "whole world".

The master of not getting it award is up for nomination again.

I submitted your name, sir.

 

[Rufus]

Since verses are being wrenched out of context, might as well add babies are born evil and unable to love to the list.

So you arbitrarily limit "all" in Rom 3:23 to mean just some, few or many? How convenient.

 

[lrs68]

So, you're saying that those two passages don't apply to "today's Christian...Remnants"? How so, since both statements are unqualified!?

I am saying most of the Bible is written to the audience that was living when the Letters were written. Paul wrote NOTHING TO RUFUS OR LRS OR ANYONE IN THIS THREAD. He wrote them to the people alive in his day and time.

We are not first fruits but the remnants of the first fruits of Christianity.

 

[Rufus]

The master of not getting it award is up for nomination again.

I submitted your name, sir.

But you have a mortal lock for all time on the Finger of Fate Award.

 

[cv5]

She [the woman in Luke 7] probably would not laugh, since one of the last things spoken of her was that she stood at His feet behind Him weeping.
She wept knowing that she was a sinner and desperately needed the forgiveness that could only come from Christ. Obviously the HS gave her an attitude adjustment.
She was drawn to Christ after being enabled to place her faith in the only one who could forgive her sins.
God used her to teach a lesson to those who thought very highly of themselves. Therefore, when she knew that Jesus sat at the table in the Pharisee’s house, she brought an alabaster flask of fragrant oil and attended to His needs.
This kind of faith only comes from God himself!

Then He [Christ] said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.”

She was drawn to Christ after being "enabled" to place her faith in the only one who could forgive her sins.

Hilariously, this Calvinist fantasy is nowhere to be found in the entirety of the episode.

 

[NightTwister]

Elder as in older.

In some cultures, the the best ones in my opinion, respecting one's elders is widely practiced and expected, so dialogue with them is never derogatory or disrespectful even when disagreeing.

Interesting how selective that is.