Are all the spiritual gifts still active today?

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There you go again, demonstrating that being judgmental is your gift.

Christians are allowed to judge the actions; the heart is God's territory. Your actions deny knowledge of the Holy Spirit other than He is mentionned in the Bible so you allow Him a little room. You have said your gift is what? Shuffling papers and arranging them into a metaphor for God is retired and you now represent Him to all who have Bibles collecting dust on a shelf? You have a false understanding yet you congratulate yourself to the point your arm must be unhinged with all the patting on your own back that you do.

Do you know of any church that has accepted your 'teachings' or is your website the only place they are welcome? What you try to shove at all of us here, is not even acceptable in most churches, with actual Christian beliefs, as they do not see Paul as part of the Godhead. Certainly we value Paul's teachings but not above the rest of the Bible. They are part of the Bible and a stand alone book of more value than anything else.

The interesting thing is that Paul himself rebuked exactly what you do.

1Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual, but as worldly—as infants in Christ. 2I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for solid food. In fact, you are still not ready, 3for you are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and dissension among you, are you not worldly? Are you not walking in the way of man? 4For when one of you says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere men?

5What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? They are servants through whom you believed, as the Lord has assigned to each his role. 6I planted the seed and Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. 7So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8He who plants and he who waters are one in purpose,a and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. 9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building. I Cor. 3
 
Christians are allowed to judge the actions; the heart is God's territory. Your actions deny knowledge of the Holy Spirit other than He is mentionned in the Bible so you allow Him a little room. You have said your gift is what? Shuffling papers and arranging them into a metaphor for God is retired and you now represent Him to all who have Bibles collecting dust on a shelf? You have a false understanding yet you congratulate yourself to the point your arm must be unhinged with all the patting on your own back that you do.

Do you know of any church that has accepted your 'teachings' or is your website the only place they are welcome? What you try to shove at all of us here, is not even acceptable in most churches, with actual Christian beliefs, as they do not see Paul as part of the Godhead. Certainly we value Paul's teachings but not above the rest of the Bible. They are part of the Bible and a stand alone book of more value than anything else.

The interesting thing is that Paul himself rebuked exactly what you do.

1Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual, but as worldly—as infants in Christ. 2I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for solid food. In fact, you are still not ready, 3for you are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and dissension among you, are you not worldly? Are you not walking in the way of man? 4For when one of you says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere men?

5What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? They are servants through whom you believed, as the Lord has assigned to each his role. 6I planted the seed and Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. 7So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8He who plants and he who waters are one in purpose,a and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. 9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building. I Cor. 3

I agree with Paul, but not with your judgment, However, because this is your gift and modus operandi,
perhaps it would be interesting to see you engage it by critiquing a lesson on the website--using GW of course.
(I trust you saw my invitation on the other thread.)
 
Thanks for your reply and the interesting points you are making.

While agree with many of the things you laid out on the subject of the Gospel, I was pulled up short on a couple of points you made. Hopefully, they just need further clarification.

The first concern I have is with the following statement:
  • There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or Creator God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
Define what you meant by "morally accountable human beings"? Surely you are not suggesting what this sentence seems to indicate. What person is morally accountable, in any good sense, apart from Christ's Righteousness imputed to that person's account, the person would be morally bankrupt. We are all sinners - saved and unsaved alike. As long as we live in these vessels, sin will always be a reality. Our righteousness before God is an old stinky rag. Our personal morality will always be short of God's standard. Your statement, makes it sound like you are suggesting that God rewards morally "good" people with salvation.

If you meant morally accountable, as in each and every human being will have to give account - then I would agree. However, I don't understand why you phrased it like you did because it implies that some human beings are not accountable to God.

The second concern is in this statement: Thus, unity regarding the Gospel is more important than accuracy regarding doctrinal details.

I agree that when a person comes into the sphere of grace, the union with Christ is based upon - Hearing, Believing, Conviction and Repentance, bringing that person to Trust, Love, Proclaim Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. But what does that person hear? DOCTRINE.

One must understand the fall of mankind. One must understand sin. One must understand the need for Justification before a just God. All of these things are the teaching of proper Theological doctrines. One must understand who Jesus Christ is; thus, the need for Christology. One can profess belief in Jesus Christ but what if the Jesus Christ he professes is not the one of the Bible? In order for us to have "unity" of the Spirit, it must, by necessity, be unified around sound doctrine.

Acts 1:14a These all with one accord continued steadfast in prayer
Php 2:1,2 If there is therefore any exhortation in Christ, if any consolation of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any tender mercies and compassions, (2) make full my joy, that ye be of the same mind, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind;


One accord and one mind is based upon doctrinal teaching. Doctrinal details are what we unify around. For it is within them that we have unity about the great truths taught throughout Scripture. Doctrine is always in the forefront of good teaching, shinning a greater light upon God's overall plan and the need of a Savior.

1Ti 6:3-5 If any man teaches a different doctrine, and consents not to sound words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; (4) he is puffed up, knowing nothing, but doting about questionings and disputes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmising, (5) wrangling of men corrupted in mind and bereft of the truth, supposing that godliness is a way of gain.
2Ti_4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure the sound doctrine; but, having itching ears, will heap to themselves teachers after their own lusts;
Tit 2:1 But speak thou the things which befit the sound doctrine:


If unity was not based on sound doctrine then what would it be based upon? Objective Truth revealed promotes unity - subjective truth creates chaos.

1. Morally accountable human beings does not include babies, comatose, insane.
It means normal humans who have reached the age/stage of understanding God's requirement for salvation.

2. Doctrinal details includes information that builds on the essential Gospel foundation.

I like the way you discuss, so I wonder whether you would take me up on my invitation for folks to critique our website
in order to see where it might need correction or addition. It is <truthseekersfellowship.com>

You sound like you might be interested in beginning with Lesson 2 on God's requirement for salvation,
which corresponds to my thread called The Kerygma. If so, I hope to see you there and I will share from the beginning.
 
I like the way you discuss, so I wonder whether you would take me up on my invitation for folks to critique our website
in order to see where it might need correction or addition. It is <truthseekersfellowship.com>

Invitation to play in the sandbox.
 
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My thought is, miracles happen everyday; but not the miraculous kind done by the apostles.

God said: But when that which is perfect has come (Referencing His word), then that which is in part will be done away. 1 Cor. 13:10 (NKJV)
 
I have not found anywhere in scripture that the gifts have ceased. the only one that would even imply it is 1st Corinthians 13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it shall pass

And the perfect being made perfect argument is vague at best and never specifically says what this perfect is in that text but if you read the entire chapter Paul explains he is speaking of us being made perfect after this life.

So really there is no evidence to suggest that the gifts have ceased
My thought is, miracles happen everyday; but not the miraculous kind done by the apostles… and I might add, they’re all gone.

God said: But when that which is perfect has come (Referencing His word), then that which is in part will be done away. 1 Cor. 13:10 (NKJV)
 
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My thought is, miracles happen everyday; but not the miraculous kind done by the apostles.

God said: But when that which is perfect has come (Referencing His word), then that which is in part will be done away. 1 Cor. 13:10 (NKJV)

There is no biblical directive to suppose the Bible we have in our hands today is the 'perfect' Paul spoke of. God continues to speak whether or not we hear Him or pay attention to Him. When Paul wrote those words you quote (in part), was he thinking well all of these letters and all the collected written history and instruction of the Old Testament would one day become a handy reference in one book? Hardly.

The common belief is that Paul was referencing the return of Jesus.

You are, of course, allowed your own thoughts but the Bible does not actually reflect those thoughts of yours regarding the 'perfect' or the spiritual gifts. The gifts are listed as being for the edification of believers and active in churches so it was hardly just the Apostles who experienced them.
 
There is no biblical directive to suppose the Bible we have in our hands today is the 'perfect' Paul spoke of. God continues to speak whether or not we hear Him or pay attention to Him. When Paul wrote those words you quote (in part), was he thinking well all of these letters and all the collected written history and instruction of the Old Testament would one day become a handy reference in one book? Hardly.

The common belief is that Paul was referencing the return of Jesus.

You are, of course, allowed your own thoughts but the Bible does not actually reflect those thoughts of yours regarding the 'perfect' or the spiritual gifts. The gifts are listed as being for the edification of believers and active in churches so it was hardly just the Apostles who experienced them.
The Bible is not open to interpretation (ie. It’s not open to be skewed/ twisted; there are gray areas in subject matter, but the word comes from God, not man.). Doctrine should be the same everywhere!
It’s a matter of understanding what you’re reading……
 
There is no biblical directive to suppose the Bible we have in our hands today is the 'perfect' Paul spoke of. God continues to speak whether or not we hear Him or pay attention to Him. When Paul wrote those words you quote (in part), was he thinking well all of these letters and all the collected written history and instruction of the Old Testament would one day become a handy reference in one book? Hardly.

The common belief is that Paul was referencing the return of Jesus.

You are, of course, allowed your own thoughts but the Bible does not actually reflect those thoughts of yours regarding the 'perfect' or the spiritual gifts. The gifts are listed as being for the edification of believers and active in churches so it was hardly just the Apostles who experienced them.
Also, I want to emphasize that the BIBLE is God inspired. God wrote it through His apostles.
 
And a wonderful Bible believer was assassinated today.

May we find solace in the knowledge that he is with the Lord.
:cry:
 
The issue is not were they happening in the past, this post is about are they happening today.

The Bible is full of examples that they were happening in front of the general population.

But is this happening today?

We live in a time and place that gives us access to even the most mundane events around the world. If supernatural physical manifestations were going on in the general population we would know.

We would all know.
Yes they are happening today
 
The Bible is not open to interpretation (ie. It’s not open to be skewed/ twisted; there are gray areas in subject matter, but the word comes from God, not man.). Doctrine should be the same everywhere!
It’s a matter of understanding what you’re reading……

Also, I want to emphasize that the BIBLE is God inspired. God wrote it through His apostles.

Do you think I don't know that? I am afraid you have some expectations that are both not realistic or true
 
Answer: Yes.


There is not a single verse in the Bible that states the gifts of the Spirit have stopped or are not for today. That is the truth.


  1. A proper study of the grammatical wording in 1 Corinthians 13: 8–10 shows that the phrase “that which is perfect has come” is not written in the past tense.
  2. Nowhere does the text state that “that which is perfect” refers to the canonization of the 66 books of the Bible. That interpretation is assumed, not stated.
  3. 1 Corinthians 12 through 14 are unit chapters and must be read in context. Using one verse in chapter 13 to dismiss chapter 12, the remainder of chapter 13, and all of chapter 14 is a misinterpretation.
 
My thought is, miracles happen everyday; but not the miraculous kind done by the apostles… and I might add, they’re all gone.

God said: But when that which is perfect has come (Referencing His word), then that which is in part will be done away. 1 Cor. 13:10 (NKJV)
Except you are just assuming it means that perfect is his word which the chapter itself explains what this perfect is Paul was talking about the next life read the whole chapter

Because nowhere does it even imply it means his word nor does it say it all your doing is just adding meaning to it
 
And a wonderful Bible believer was assassinated today.

May we find solace in the knowledge that he is with the Lord.
:cry:
But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, "Do not say in your heart, Who will ascend into heaven?" (that is, to bring Christ down from above) or, “Who will descend into the abyss?” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).

ROMANS 10:6-7
 
There is a shocking amount of Christians who say the gifts have ended, even on another forum I am in this same debate and wow are there a lot who say it has ended
We live in a generation of unbelief just as the enemy intended....
 
There is a shocking amount of Christians who say the gifts have ended, even on another forum I am in this same debate and wow are there a lot who say it has ended
We live in a generation of unbelief just as the enemy intended....

Miraculous gifts have ended. I’ve never heard of anyone healing the blind, or making the lame walk. Have you? Or perhaps healing someone with cancer or leprosy with one touch. Have you? Or raising the dead. Have you?
These were things the apostles did. These kinds of miracles are called miraculous.

"But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away."
I Corinthians 13:10 NKJV

This is Scriptural. We all have gifts of some sort, but nobody can do miraculous gifts anymore. Hope this helps. :)
 
Miraculous gifts have ended. I’ve never heard of anyone healing the blind, or making the lame walk. Have you? Or perhaps healing someone with cancer or leprosy with one touch. Have you? Or raising the dead. Have you?
These were things the apostles did. These kinds of miracles are called miraculous.

"But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away."
I Corinthians 13:10 NKJV

This is Scriptural. We all have gifts of some sort, but nobody can do miraculous gifts anymore. Hope this helps. :)
Yes actually I have because I had a friend who had stage four cancer and he was healed by his pastor on the spot I even checked up on him frequently and he was still cancer free. As for that verse what is that which is perfect? the only thing I have seen in scripture that was perfect was Jesus himself, you say it is scriptural but how?
 
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Yes actually I have because I had a friend who had stage four cancer and he was healed by his pastor on the spot I even checked up on him frequently and he was still cancer free. As for that verse what is that which is perfect? the only thing I have seen in scripture that was perfect was Jesus himself, you say it is scriptural but how?

Maybe the cancer thing was a bad example, because I’ve heard of people changing their cancer therapies/ treatments to a non traditional therapy and they were cured too.
But have you seen all the other examples that the apostles did through the Holy Spirit (the blind see, the lame walk, the dead raised etc)? Most likely not!

Scripture:
"But when that which is perfect has come (Yes, Jesus), then that which is in part (prophecies and miraculous gifts) will be done away."
I Corinthians 13:10 NKJV