Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Kroogz]

True enough that people simply cannot obey the law to his standards yes but the reason for the law is why I say what I say because the law was always going to be impossible for us but that wasn't the purpose of him giving it

So in a sense yes he does command things we cannot do but he never does so without reason and without intent behind it

You do know their ultimate objective, correct?

God commands us to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ so we shall be saved.

You cannot believe that command..........This is their objective.

 

[lrs68]

You too have a peculiar way of saying...You're right.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I've already shown that statement to be incorrect, but...can you love others the way Christ loves us?

I believe we're all still in the learning phase of that objective.

Ephesians 3:

14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
.

 

[Magenta]

Yes precisely and so when we talk about the law and God commanding something that is not possible for us we have to take into consideration the reason he gave it to begin with or else we will not understand the law

We have to first admit God commands things people cannot do. Many claim God does not do this. They are wrong.

Good on you for admitting you were wrong. Most do not. They would rather lie.

 

[Jordon]

The TULIP concept states that since man is totally depraved, that Grace must force us to believe.
Hence, "irresistible."

nope Grace is favour not something forceful.

When I say favour in this instance its the favor of God wanting his lost children to change because of there nature in there fallen condition , that he favours would change,.

Which in no doubt all of mankind was capable of what Adam and eve did.

Or if we look into it further You could say Because God wants us to have freedom and independence of some degree, he had to do and create mankind the way he did.

 

[Cameron143]

Yes I can and we all are taught to do so

You cannot love like Jesus apart from Jesus performing it through you. You do not possess the ability to love as Christ does.

 

[Rufus]

Are we told to not covet, boast, lust, envy, etc …..............?
Are these commands not difficult or impossible to keep?
I was replying to a post which insinuated that God would not ask us to do somethin that we are unable to do!

There are plenty of scriptures that give men commandments IMPOSSIBLE to keep. Jesus healed a man of blindness or leprosy (forget which) and the woman "caught in adultery" to go and sin no more. QUIT sinning is what he commanded both of them? I wonder how many here think either of them were capable of obeying that command!

 

[Blain]

You do know their ultimate objective, correct?

God commands us to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ so we shall be saved.

You cannot believe that command..........This is their objective.

That doesn't make any sense, of course we can believe that command and it is vital to receieve salvation to begin with.
I cannot see any believer in Christ thinking this way it just doesn't make sense

 

[Cameron143]

not "acting as though [you] did" anything ... just clarifying that God gets the glory in either case ...





only that Gideon at some point no longer faltered when God told him to go ... Gideon's trust in God grew ... each time God brought him and his men through the fire Gideon's faith was strengthened ... same fact holds true in our day and time.
.

Gideon's trust was by sight...actually sound, and not by faith. Same as many today.

 

[Cameron143]

not "acting as though [you] did" anything ... just clarifying that God gets the glory in either case ...





only that Gideon at some point no longer faltered when God told him to go ... Gideon's trust in God grew ... each time God brought him and his men through the fire Gideon's faith was strengthened ... same fact holds true in our day and time.
.

Also, rolling eyes suggest you did.

 

[Blain]

We have to first admit God commands things people cannot do. Many claim God does not do this. They are wrong.

Good on you for admitting you were wrong. Most do not. They would rather lie.

Well I always say to everyone that if we are to learn and grow in Christ we have to be able to consider and admit that we may be wrong in our beliefs otherwise even if the truth is presented to us we will remain blind to it.

I would be a hypocrite if I could not take my own advice

 

[Rufus]

Genez said:

For starters ...
God saved your soul.
Not your body.

If that's true, you should know that you will not be inheriting the Kingdom of God, since flesh and blood cannot. Maybe your only reward is this life, after all?

 

[Blain]

You cannot love like Jesus apart from Jesus performing it through you. You do not possess the ability to love as Christ does.

No I on my own cannot do this but the spirit in me empowers me to do so that is why I said yes I can because his love lives in me.
But I do see the point you were trying to make now you were talking about me personally on my own without the help of the spirit right? Because yes apart from him this is not possible

 

[Rufus]

Yes agree, it is not about free will (philosophy and neuroscience) per se, but about being born with the "ability" to respond positively to the Gospel message, this is really the crux of the matter.
The ability to exercise faith in Christ Jesus because of the inherent power and truth of the Gospel message.
Saving faith is not a gift

Monergists argue if faith is not a gift then it is meritorious (a work) and they are wrong. They make faith to be something that earns, or merits to us the grace of God and herein lies their error. As well, faith is not the object which is where they err.
They say that saving faith is something good therefore it must come from God, again they are adding an attribute to saving faith that scripture does not.
It is quite clear that Faith in and of itself has no value, no merit.
The value of faith is in the object of the saving faith.

Christ Jesus is the object of faith.

Faith exercised in Christ Jesus actually cancels out boasting because it acknowledges there is nothing we can add to the "Paid in Full."

Monergists cannot see this because their brains are wired to the false interpretations of scripture they have accepted.

16 For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, - Romans 4:16

They read in the "gifted" faith even though it is not there.

And God is the giver of the gift of faith!

 

[Kroogz]

That doesn't make any sense, of course we can believe that command and it is vital to receieve salvation to begin with.
I cannot see any believer in Christ thinking this way it just doesn't make sense

@Blain this whole thread is about the ability or inability to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for our salvation.

According to the reformed, we can make a choice to drink ourselves to death, eat ourselves to death, smoke ourselves to death.
Or make a choice to live long and prosper.

But GOD FORBID we make a choice of eternal death or eternal life. Acts 16:31

 

[Magenta]

That doesn't make any sense, of course we can believe that command and it is vital to receieve salvation to begin with.
I cannot see any believer in Christ thinking this way it just doesn't make sense

That person is one of the major people who misrepresents what others believe. In fact he entered these
convos less than a year ago close to a year after joining by claiming nobody was misrepresenting other
people's beliefs. Many of these free willers willfully and repeatedly misrepresent those they disagree with.
That particular ignoramus even asked me why God forced me to believe. They say such things hoping for what,
one must wonder. Like telling us we claim nobody can believe, or that not having a will that is free means we
are bots. Their level of comprehension is incredibly shallow, and I doubt they make any effort to understand
what Scripture actually says in this regard because they are too attached to their self-exalting beliefs that have
zero support in the Bible, even against the plethora of verses that support the fact that man's will is not free.

 

[Rufus]

Evidently [God's gracious gift of] faith is the antithesis of boasting......

Rom 3:27
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

FTFY!

 

[Genez]

Oh....so that's why God destroyed the first generation of Exodus Jews (with very few exceptions) and would not allow that generation into the Land -- because their mighty "freewills" chose God within the Israel camp"?

The younger generation chose to listen to Moses.

They entered the land.

 

[Rufus]

As I have been suspecting.

Some apparently see free will as needing to be omniscient and omnipotent.
God has given us our own domain to reign in.
One which we are to exercise free will. Not in His domain.

So God created mankind in his own image,​

in the image of God he created them;​

male and female he created them.​

​

God blessed them and said to them, ​

“Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. ​

Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every ​

living creature that moves on the ground.”​

​

Genesis 1:27-28​

That requires free will to accomplish, according to what has been granted to man to exercise it.

...... .

There we have it, folks. By Genez's own admission there are multiple kingdoms here on earth and God gave man liberty to rule his life as he wants. He apparently thinks man is the co-owner with God of this universe.

 

[Blain]

@Blain this whole thread is about the ability or inability to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for our salvation.

According to the reformed, we can make a choice to drink ourselves to death, eat ourselves to death, smoke ourselves to death.
Or make a choice to live long and prosper.

But GOD FORBID we make a choice of eternal death or eternal life. Acts 16:31

I think the issue arises when we talk about choosing salvation or the inability to do so, we are told in scripture many times to choose life or choose death we however cannot choose life in our natural fleshly state unless we are drawn to him first because before he does this we are slaves to our flesh only caring about the fleshly things but when a change begins inside someone drawing them to the light this is when we can choose either life or death.

At least this is my understanding of it